The Trinity

[spiritwarrior37]

The spirit of the righteous can't be destroyed, but the spirit of the damned will be destroyed.

Scripture to prove this please.

 

[LutheranMafia]

1. Revelation 2:11
   He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
2. Revelation 20:6
   Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
3. Revelation 20:14
   Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
4. Revelation 21:8
   But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

 

[Mikecpking]

If you please then, who is the writer therof?

Workshop | Applied Christian Studies

 

[Mikecpking]

I see no difference.

*emphasis added*

Psalma 100:3
Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Please explain.

Genesis 2:7 is clearly a passage which sets out what is person. When God breathed in the breath of life, Man received his Ruah, but it did not mean that man received God, it meant that Man recieved 'breath' from God. This is the basic meaning of Ruah (spirit).
It is through our 'Ruah', we reach out to God's ways, we judge what is wrong and what is right etc, but on new birth, we receive the Holy spirit which is a big difference!

 

[Mikecpking]

Also, as pertains to the Holy Spirit "never associated with blood";

1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

This is again, talking about the holy spirit as opposed to the ruah in every single person!

 

[Mikecpking]

Isn't the Holy Spirit Christ's ruah?

No, because when Jesus died, he asked his father to receive his spirit which is directly in agreement with Ecclesiastes 12:7 and one needs to understand Christ went to the Grave before the resurrection.

One needs to understand that Christ was fully human as well as being divine, but the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent (Pentecost).

 

[GaryP]

I will stick with the Father in Heaven the one the Jews believe in.

The Jews can pass on Jesus, But the Father in Heaven is the same.

I will pass on the IHS.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I will stick with the Father in Heaven the one the Jews believe in.

The Jews can pass on Jesus, But the Father in Heaven is the same.

I will pass on the IHS.

....what?

 

[Aibrean]

....what?

I thought the exact same thing.

The Father in heaven the Jews believe in did not have a son called Jesus that died for the sins of the world.

That is akin to saying you believe in the Muslim Allah.

Without Jesus, a Christian does not make. If you are passing on IHS (Iesous Christos - Jesus Christ) you are passing on Jesus. Why do you have a Christian faith icon again?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I thought the exact same thing.

The Father in heaven the Jews believe in did not have a son called Jesus that died for the sins of the world.

That is akin to saying you believe in the Muslim Allah.

Without Jesus, a Christian does not make. If you are passing on IHS (Iesous Christos - Jesus Christ) you are passing on Jesus. Why do you have a Christian faith icon again?

Precisely! It's so refreshing to see someone who gets that if the Father isn't the Father of the Son, he's not the same Father at all.

*loves me some Robert W. Jenson...*

 

[LutheranMafia]

No. Aren't spirit and soul interchangeable?

1. Hebrews 4:12
   For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
2. 1 Thessalonians 5:23
   May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Zeena]

Genesis 2:7 is clearly a passage which sets out what is person. When God breathed in the breath of life, Man received his Ruah, but it did not mean that man received God, it meant that Man recieved 'breath' from God. This is the basic meaning of Ruah (spirit).
It is through our 'Ruah', we reach out to God's ways, we judge what is wrong and what is right etc, but on new birth, we receive the Holy spirit which is a big difference!

So, man's spirit is God's breath?

Is that the Holy Spirit?

רוח
Ruwach

breath
wind
spirit
Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son

Ruwach - Hebrew Lexicon

 

[laconicstudent]

*bangs head against keyboard*

The Holy Spirit is as much a person as the Father and the Son. This is the Trinity, not a Dyad. I am astonished that this thread has been allowed to remain open in General Theology this long.

 

[Zeena]

No, because when Jesus died, he asked his father to receive his spirit which is directly in agreement with Ecclesiastes 12:7 and one needs to understand Christ went to the Grave before the resurrection.

As do we all.

Stephen the disciple also prayed the Lord receive his spirit..
As did King David..

Psalm 31:5
Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

One needs to understand that Christ was fully human as well as being divine, but the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent (Pentecost).

Was the Holy Spirit inactive during the time before Christ's incarnation?

 

[Mikecpking]

As do we all.

Stephen the disciple also prayed the Lord receive his spirit..
As did King David..

Psalm 31:5
Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

Was the Holy Spirit inactive during the time before Christ's incarnation?

Hi Zeena,
What Stephen prayed was exactly in line with Ecclesiastes 12:7. God's holy spirit was active before the Holy Spirit was sent, exaamples set below. But Man's Ruah and the Holy Spirit are not the same. In the case of Stephen, 'Pneuma' here is Man's breath, but the was a number of differing aspects of 'Pneuma (Ruach), nephesh and psuche so I will present them here again:

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Ruah - Pneuma - Spirit[/FONT]
This 'picture - window' into personhood highlights our unique relationship with God.'Ruah' has its roots in the 'wind' which emphasises both its powerful and yet subtle nature. 'Ruah' is used in a number of different contexts:-
• for the wind in nature.
• for the nature of God's being ['Spirit of God', 'Holy Spirit']; dynamic, overwhelming, at times completely dominating [Jg 6:34], the root of prophesying [ISam 10:5-6] and abnormal strength [Jg 14:6].
• for demonic activity [ISam 16:14].
• for the 'principle of life' [akin to 'nephesh' often used interchangeably]. It is the life force present everywhere; independent, universal, it does not die.
• for the vital energy dwelling within each individual, that force which affects temperament.
Human 'ruah' is more than just the natural breath we breathe [which is 'nesama']. There is a vital energy within each person which is the result of the special 'in-breathing' of God; the centre of thoughts, decisions, moods, and is the dimension of personhood most directly open to the influence of God. 'Ruah' particularly stresses:-
• the direction of the will, it is the energy behind willing and acting, that which urges good and evil [Isa 29:24; Ps 51:12].
• the deep emotions; passion [Jg 8:3], grief [Gen 26:35] zeal [Hag 1:14], often seen in the panting of excitement or distress which is different from normal breathing.
• the seat of individual moral qualities and attitudes [Ecc 7:8; Isa 57:15; Num 14:24]. Ezekiel sees the Messianic age as a period when individuals will be permeated by Yahweh's 'ruah' which in turn will renew their own [11; 19; 18:31; 36:26; 39:29]. This is one of the most important words in Paul's vocabulary with his emphasis on regeneration, sanctification, fellowship with God [Gal. 5:22-23 etc].
• the experience of being in touch with God and under God's influence. The human 'ruah' searches out God's ways [Ps 77:7; Isa 26;9], it can be stirred or hardened by God [Jer 51; 11; Dt 2:30].
'Ruah' presents us with human nature's in interplay with the nature of God. It is stressing a person open to and transmitting the life of God [Rm 8:16; ICor 2:10-11]. It has no physical 'animal' character, [never associated with blood], transcending mere desire or feeling.

Therefore, Man's Ruah even though it comes from God is not the Holy Spirit which is the Ruah of God. Everybody whether they are Christian or not has breath, otherwise they would be dead! But only Christians have God's Ruah within them.

 

[laconicstudent]

Therefore, Man's Ruah even though it comes from God is not the Holy Spirit which is the Ruah of God. Everybody whether they are Christian or not has breath, otherwise they would be dead! But only Christians have God's Ruah within them.

The Holy Spirit is God.

And [we believe] in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Mikecpking]

The Holy Spirit is God.

I never said it wasn't.

 

[LutheranMafia]

To reiterate the OP; our soul and the spirit exist as separate personailities from our conscious mind. So we are a reflection of the tri-fold symmetry of God. We have three parts just as God does, and our parts our separate personalities in one being just as God's are.

 

[Mikecpking]

To reiterate the OP; our soul and the spirit exist as separate personailities from our conscious mind. So we are a reflection of the tri-fold symmetry of God. We have three parts just as God does, and our parts our separate personalities in one being just as God's are.

That view of personhood is not supported by scripture.

To begin with, the Hebrews had as an indivisible unity where 'soul' (nephesh) is the whole man; look at Gen 2:7 ..an man became a living soul (he did not get a soul, he became one)

Words like 'heart' 'soul','body', 'flesh' were aspects of teh whole man rather than parts with the root meanings given spiritual significance. The Hebrews believed there was only one God and did not regard God having parts either! Look up Deuteronomy 6:5 for the 'Shema'.

 

[LutheranMafia]

The Hebrews believed there was only one God and did not regard God having parts either!

You don't believe in the Trinity? How did you get a Christian icon if you don't believe in the Trinity? That is a central belief in Christianity.

Look up Deuteronomy 6:5 for the 'Shema'.

Ok:
"And you shall love the Lord your God with all your [mind and] heart and with your entire being and with all your might."

How does that disprove the Trinity?