The Tribulation.

[Bluelion]

What you are saying here is that those who disagree with you must be ignoring scripture, not holding it in high regard. In other words, you must insult them.

You should check out this thread. www.christianforums.com/t7877837/

And you should listen the podcasts I linked to. While you may still disagree with amillennialism, you will not be able to say that those who hold to the view ignore scripture or hold it in low regard.

again saying you disagree is not an argument.

 

[Hammster]

again saying you disagree is not an argument.

You should probably read all of my posts, then.

 

[Bluelion]

You should probably read all of my posts, then.

again scripture

 

[Hammster]

again scripture

For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. Psalms 50:10

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night. Psalms 90:4

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15

So here we see thousand being used to describe a large, but inexact number. And Jesus saying that the kingdom of God is already here.

Jesus repeatedly told parables that described the kingdom of God. He would say the kingdom of God is...

It was never the Kingdom will be.

 

[dysert]

For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. Psalms 50:10

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night. Psalms 90:4

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15

So here we see thousand being used to describe a large, but inexact number. And Jesus saying that the kingdom of God is already here.

Jesus repeatedly told parables that described the kingdom of God. He would say the kingdom of God is...

It was never the Kingdom will be.

Unfortunately for your position, those metaphorical uses of "a thousand" come from the Psalms, which is poetic literature to begin with. Moreover, just because there's a metaphorical use doesn't preclude a non-metaphorical use elsewhere. (There are plenty of numbers used in Scripture that aren't metaphorical.)

The question is, what exactly *is* "the kingdom of God"?

 

[classicalhero]

There is no future setting up of the kingdom. It is here.

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:2

Remember, 1000 is rarely ever (if at all) used literally. It's used to denote a large number of something (cattle on a thousand hills, 1000 eyes, etc).

Are you really using poetry to interpret prophecy? Poetic language is different from prophetic language.

@Bluelion, I just don't see the nuclear war part.

 

[Hammster]

Unfortunately for your position, those metaphorical uses of "a thousand" come from the Psalms, which is poetic literature to begin with. Moreover, just because there's a metaphorical use doesn't preclude a non-metaphorical use elsewhere. (There are plenty of numbers used in Scripture that aren't metaphorical.)

The question is, what exactly *is* "the kingdom of God"?

So in Revelation, there's nothing metaphorical? That makes for one strange book then.

 

[Hammster]

Are you really using poetry to interpret prophecy? Poetic language is different from prophetic language.

@Bluelion, I just don't see the nuclear war part.

Yeah, that apocalyptic language is so literal. Crazy me.

 

[dysert]

So in Revelation, there's nothing metaphorical? That makes for one strange book then.

Yes, it is a strange book. Yes, there are some things that are metaphorical; but that's a far cry from saying that everything is.

Btw, what *is* the kingdom of God?

 

[Hammster]

Yes, it is a strange book. Yes, there are some things that are metaphorical; but that's a far cry from saying that everything is.

Btw, what *is* the kingdom of God?

That's a different discussion. My question pertaining to this thread is, was Jesus correct when He said it had come?

 

[dysert]

That's a different discussion. My question pertaining to this thread is, was Jesus correct when He said it had come?

Well, I certainly don't want to derail the thread, but it seems to me that even though Jesus was correct, we may not know *what* had come when He said it.

I'll go back to lurking mode...

 

[Hammster]

Well, I certainly don't want to derail the thread, but it seems to me that even though Jesus was correct, we may not know *what* had come when He said it.

I'll go back to lurking mode...

I think it was the kingdom.

 

[dysert]

I think it was the kingdom.

That much is clear. I'd be interested in your opinion on what constitutes the kingdom, but if that's a different thread, never mind.

 

[Hammster]

That much is clear. I'd be interested in your opinion on what constitutes the kingdom, but if that's a different thread, never mind.

That's not relevant. What is relevant is if the kingdom is here, and it's to be a thousand years, then it's obvious that it's not a literal 1000 years.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

There is no future setting up of the kingdom. It is here.

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:2

Remember, 1000 is rarely ever (if at all) used literally. It's used to denote a large number of something (cattle on a thousand hills, 1000 eyes, etc).

Rev. 11:15. Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of his Messiah,
and he will reign forever and ever."
16. Then the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17. singing,
"We give you thanks, Lord God Almighty,
who are and who were,
for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign.
18. The nations raged,
but your wrath has come,
and the time for judging the dead,
for rewarding your servants, the prophets
and saints and all who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
19. Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. (NRSV)

If the garbage dump that we live in is what God promised in Revelation, God has an EXTREMELY wild imagination!

 

[dysert]

That's not relevant. What is relevant is if the kingdom is here, and it's to be a thousand years, then it's obvious that it's not a literal 1000 years.

There are several ways to respond here, but since I'm in a hurry I'll take the most expedient approach. If the kingdom is here, and the Millennial kingdom is to be 1000 years, than it's obviously that the kingdom of God and the Millennial kingdom are not the same thing.

If you get time, I would also like your take on Jer. 30-33 and Ezek. 37.

 

[Hammster]

There are several ways to respond here, but since I'm in a hurry I'll take the most expedient approach. If the kingdom is here, and the Millennial kingdom is to be 1000 years, than it's obviously that the kingdom of God and the Millennial kingdom are not the same thing.

If you get time, I would also like your take on Jer. 30-33 and Ezek. 37.

Or, like other places in scripture, 1000 is used to mean a large number.

 

[Hammster]

Rev. 11:15. Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of his Messiah,
and he will reign forever and ever."
16. Then the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17. singing,
"We give you thanks, Lord God Almighty,
who are and who were,
for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign.
18. The nations raged,
but your wrath has come,
and the time for judging the dead,
for rewarding your servants, the prophets
and saints and all who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
19. Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. (NRSV)

If the garbage dump that we live in is what God promised in Revelation, God has an EXTREMELY wild imagination!

M'kay. Not sure of your point here.

 

[Bluelion]

For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. Psalms 50:10

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night. Psalms 90:4

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15

So here we see thousand being used to describe a large, but inexact number. And Jesus saying that the kingdom of God is already here.

Jesus repeatedly told parables that described the kingdom of God. He would say the kingdom of God is...

It was never the Kingdom will be.

 

[Bluelion]

For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. Psalms 50:10

For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night. Psalms 90:4

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15

So here we see thousand being used to describe a large, but inexact number. And Jesus saying that the kingdom of God is already here.

Jesus repeatedly told parables that described the kingdom of God. He would say the kingdom of God is...

It was never the Kingdom will be.

It is sad if you think this world is the kingdom of god