The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[JulieB67]

that there be no gatherings when I come.

He stated that they would do it on the "first day" so that there would be no gathers when he came. Meaning they would have already collected by the time he gets there. We are talking about collections being done on the first day.

I think we have a warning about Paul's writings, when we make them try to say the opposite of what Jesus who is God taught and lived

Never stated Paul taught against Christ's own teachings. In fact he is always a another witness to what Christ taught.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He stated that they would do it on the "first day" so that there would be no gathers when he came. Meaning they would have already collected by the time he gets there. We are talking about collections being done on the first day.

I believe it means the collection/gatherings would be ready when he comes on the first day to collect it. It was a home collection, not a church one

1 Corinthians 16:2

“Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him…”

In Greek, the phrase is:

par’ heautō tithetō thesaurizōn — literally,
“let each one put aside by himself, storing up.”

That little phrase “by himself” (παρ᾽ ἑαυτῷ, par’ heautō) is crucial — it indicates a personal setting aside, rather than depositing money in a common collection box at a public gathering

Never stated Paul taught against Christ's own teachings. In fact he is always a another witness to what Christ taught.

Yes, and Christ did not come to destroy His own law or prophets Mat5:17 , and fulfilled His promise of making His laws greater Isa 42:21 not lessor as we see Him doing just that Mat5:19-30

Why not a jot or tittle can pass from the law until all is fulfilled and that is when Jesus comes in the clouds and He creates a New Heaven and New Earth and no more sin or sinners ever again, just living in peace and harmony with God forevermore.. Therefore His Law is exactly how He gave it. Just written on a better surface with better promises of how we can keep them through Him if we cooperate.

I pray sister we will both be ready on that Great Day..

 

[Servus]

While I agree with you, that "Many" of this world's religious sects and businesses "who call Jesus Lord, Lord" created their own sabbaths and high days, and spoke against and wrote against the Sabbaths of God. It certainly seems prudent to accept that The Church of God, according to scriptures, didn't engage in this same behavior. And it also seems prudent to understand that religious men throughout the History of the bible, "who professed to know God", polluted and rejected God's Sabbaths from the beginning. The "church fathers" of the religious sect of the Pharisees most certainly polluted and promoted handwritten ordinances which were "against" God's Sabbaths and those Faithful believers who Honored God though them. This is why Paul told the Body of Christ not to let others Judge them for their voluntary humility of "Yielding themselves to God and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness unto God. I am happy to show the actual scriptures which God inspired to be written, if you would like.

The First Church of God "under His Prophesied High Priest "after the Order of Melchizedek" (Christ Jesus) most certainly Honored and Respected God concerning His Sabbaths. Ironically, after Passover, that God's Church observed, and Feast of Unleavened Bread, that God's Church observed, they were instructed to "count Sabbaths" correctly so as to be gathered on the Holy Feast of the Lord, "Feast of weeks" or as it was called in the English Translation "Pentecost". For their obedience and respect for God, they were granted His Promised "Holy Spirit", that God Gives to them who obey Him, as promised in the Law and Prophets and confirmed by Zacharias in Luke 1, and Peter in Acts.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. (Which is only our reasonable service according to Paul) 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I would caution folks to "Beware" of the philosophies and traditions of this world's religions and the church fathers who promoted them. Both the Law and Prophets, Jesus and Paul warned about these religions which exist in the world God placed us in. We should "take Heed" of their doctrines and Judgments and "Yield ourselves" servants to obey God, as the Scriptures all teach.



Not of this world's religions. But it is a commandment given by God, for their well being, in the History of God's Church.



I guess that would determine where a persons loyalties lie. If they follow Paul's instruction:

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye "present your bodies" a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: (This would include it's religions as well, in my understanding) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Not traditions and doctrines of religious men)

And as it turns out, God has made His Oracles available to all men, so that there is no excuse. And these Scriptures, according to Paul, are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."


Shall we not then submit to God's Righteousness, as opposed to following the example of the mainstream religions of the world at Paul's Time, who were "ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

Certainly something to ponder for those who believe in Jesus and are "Seeking the Righteousness of God".

I'm talking about the church Jesus Christ established through his Apostles. That church did not have seventh-day sabbath keeping. If that's supposed to be wrongdoing against Christ, then the conclusion has to be that Christianity failed immediately. Which is what many sabbath keepers go wo with. The idea that they, and not Christ's apostles, have proper discernment and are doing the will of Christ. That must be pretty ego boosting.

 

[Servus]

Someone quoting Scripture out of context does not change what God said is His Truth.

Jesus is the Truth John 14:6
All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151
His Word is Truth John 17:17

You still haven’t provided an example of what God said is His Truth changing into untruths.

The Bible is true even when people use it to deceive. It’s the people that are untrue, not God’s Word.

That's good to know because I've seen you quoting scripture out of context for years.

 

[Studyman]

I'm talking about the church Jesus Christ established through his Apostles. That church did not have seventh-day sabbath keeping. If that's supposed to be wrongdoing against Christ, then the conclusion has to be that Christianity failed immediately. Which is what many sabbath keepers go wo with. The idea that they, and not Christ's apostles, have proper discernment and are doing the will of Christ. That must be pretty ego boosting.

But they did keep God's Sabbath according to the Bible.

They kept God's Holy Feast of Pentecost. They had to count "7 Sabbath's" to know when to gather.

Ignoring this Biblical Fact, doesn't make it void.

 

[Servus]

But they did keep God's Sabbath according to the Bible.

They kept God's Holy Feast of Pentecost. They had to count "7 Sabbath's" to know when to gather.

Ignoring this Biblical Fact, doesn't make it void.

Quite obviously counting sabbaths does not mean keeping the old covenant sabbath. Counting sabbaths was the standard way of counting weeks in Jerusalem where Pentecost was held. Seven sabbaths means seven weeks. There's no scripture that confirms the early Christian church kept the seventh-day sabbath, which is why sabbath keepers have to resort to citing inapplicable scripture verses.

 

[HIM]

The Sabbath sits right there in the Ten Commandments. In fact, it has become the icon of the Law for many Sabbatarians. It is the punchline of many moralistic arguments and the centerpiece of Sabbatarian doctrine. To them, it is to be kept just as strictly as any of the other nine commandments. Yet the others carry natural, immediate consequences when violated. For example, if I kill someone, I may be killed myself or imprisoned for the rest of my life. If I covet my neighbor’s wife, I may end up in the hospital or the morgue. Sabbath breaking, however, has no such visible consequence. That creates a battleground where Christians often cross swords.

What fascinates me most is how people use the broad platitude “keep the Sabbath,” even to the point of wearing the label “Sabbath Keeper.” It certainly comes with the temptation to look down on those not “discerning enough” to agree with Sabbath keeping, and it can be an ego boost for those who enjoy a sense of spiritual superiority. Not all are like that, of course. There are many sincere Sabbath keepers who do so with humility and love, considering themselves no better than anyone else.

Yet for most who carry the label, the one thing they rarely address is the specifics of true Sabbath keeping. The moment one asks “How should it actually be practiced?” disagreements erupt. The Sabbath-keeping community is deeply divided over what is appropriate and what is not. It is far easier to remain in the comfort of the broad label than to open the can of worms and define the boundaries. Still, if Sabbath keeping is truly salvific, should the precise observance of it not be extremely important? One would hate to wear the label all their life only to discover they had been doing it wrong.

I could give examples, but for now, I will leave the worms in that can a little longer.

It is not that difficult. Rest from work and focus on God and His

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's good to know because I've seen you quoting scripture out of context for years.

God is going to be the Judge of this for everyone and we all will be accountable for our teachings Mat5:19

As long as God is our Creator Exo20:11 and we need His Sanctification Eze20:12 - the Sabbath remains. Eze20:20 Why we are told in the end times to get back to worship this God Rev14:7 before its too late Rev18:4 Rev22:11

The problem with most who try to edit the Testimony of God Deut4:13 Exo31:18 Rev15:5 is trying to disprove God at His own Words. Mal3:6 Heb13:8

 

[Studyman]

Quite obviously counting sabbaths does not mean keeping the old covenant sabbath.

Men are free to reject and or pollute God's Sabbath days and other judgements if they want. Truly this world's "church fathers" have done so since the very beginning. But for me, it seems silly to accept that the first Church of God under His Prophesied New Priesthood covenant, would Keep God's Holy Sabbath of the first and last days of Unleavened bread, and Pentecost, but reject God's Commandment concerning His Holy 7th Day Sabbath. According to what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures, they are all "Feasts of the Lord", and the Jesus "of the bible" Himself said HE Lord of the Sabbath Days. Who are we to Judge "some" of God's Sabbath Days as unworthy of our honor and respect, and others as worthy?

And the term "old covenant sabbath" is a completely man made concoction. In God's definition of His Own New Covenant, HE doesn't say, suggest or even imply that His Laws HE will write on the hearts of HIS People, exclude the 4th Commandment?

In fact, according to God's definition of His Own "New covenant", there are only 2 things that changed. If you are interested you can read this for yourself in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8.

#1. That manner in which God's Laws are administered.

#2. The manner in which the remission of Sins is provided for.

This world's religions promote the belief that most of God's Laws are abolished in God's "New Covenant". But clearly God never said or even implied any such thing, and Jesus and Paul promoted no such thing.

It was the Priesthood that changed in the New Covenant, not God's definition of Sin.

Counting sabbaths was the standard way of counting weeks in Jerusalem where Pentecost was held. Seven sabbaths means seven weeks.

God's people honored God wherever they were. Not just Jerusalem. But I get it, the religious traditions of our fathers are a powerful influence. It was in Jesus Time as well. And Caleb's too.

For me, it seems important not to Judge God or His Commandments, some as worthy of honor and respect, and others only worthy of rejection, according to the philosophies and traditions of this world's religions, "who profess to know God".

There's no scripture that confirms the early Christian church kept the seventh-day sabbath, which is why sabbath keepers have to resort to citing inapplicable scripture verses.

I simply choose to believe in the Jesus "of the Bible". He said to "Keep God's Commandments" and to "Live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God" and to "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect". I don't believe I am instructed by His Word to single out which Commandment to live by, or which Commandment to reject. The Sabbath wasn't controversial in Jerusalem. Even the Gentiles there understood the Commandment. Everyone who knew Jesus, knew He was obedient to God's Laws, even the 4th Commandment.

Men are free to pick and choose which instructions from God they deem as worthy of their respect and honor and which are not worthy. But when they accuse the Body of Christ in the Holy Scriptures of "doing" the same thing, someone needs to at least point out what the Bible actually says.

I am not SDA, God's 4th Commandment is just one of His instruction in righteousness that He made for men. I simply do not believe that when God created His Sabbath for men, HE intended for men to reject it and create their own. But HE did warn me to "Take heed" I am not deceived by the "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that do.

Shall I not hearken to Him?

 

[Servus]

Men are free to reject and or pollute God's Sabbath days and other judgements if they want. Truly this world's "church fathers" have done so since the very beginning. But for me, it seems silly to accept that the first Church of God under His Prophesied New Priesthood covenant, would Keep God's Holy Sabbath of the first and last days of Unleavened bread, and Pentecost, but reject God's Commandment concerning His Holy 7th Day Sabbath. According to what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures, they are all "Feasts of the Lord", and the Jesus "of the bible" Himself said HE Lord of the Sabbath Days. Who are we to Judge "some" of God's Sabbath Days as unworthy of our honor and respect, and others as worthy?

And the term "old covenant sabbath" is a completely man made concoction. In God's definition of His Own New Covenant, HE doesn't say, suggest or even imply that His Laws HE will write on the hearts of HIS People, exclude the 4th Commandment?

In fact, according to God's definition of His Own "New covenant", there are only 2 things that changed. If you are interested you can read this for yourself in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8.

#1. That manner in which God's Laws are administered.

#2. The manner in which the remission of Sins is provided for.

This world's religions promote the belief that most of God's Laws are abolished in God's "New Covenant". But clearly God never said or even implied any such thing, and Jesus and Paul promoted no such thing.

It was the Priesthood that changed in the New Covenant, not God's definition of Sin.




God's people honored God wherever they were. Not just Jerusalem. But I get it, the religious traditions of our fathers are a powerful influence. It was in Jesus Time as well. And Caleb's too.

For me, it seems important not to Judge God or His Commandments, some as worthy of honor and respect, and others only worthy of rejection, according to the philosophies and traditions of this world's religions, "who profess to know God".





I simply choose to believe in the Jesus "of the Bible". He said to "Keep God's Commandments" and to "Live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God" and to "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect". I don't believe I am instructed by His Word to single out which Commandment to live by, or which Commandment to reject. The Sabbath wasn't controversial in Jerusalem. Even the Gentiles there understood the Commandment. Everyone who knew Jesus, knew He was obedient to God's Laws, even the 4th Commandment.

Men are free to pick and choose which instructions from God they deem as worthy of their respect and honor and which are not worthy. But when they accuse the Body of Christ in the Holy Scriptures of "doing" the same thing, someone needs to at least point out what the Bible actually says.

I am not SDA, God's 4th Commandment is just one of His instruction in righteousness that He made for men. I simply do not believe that when God created His Sabbath for men, HE intended for men to reject it and create their own. But HE did warn me to "Take heed" I am not deceived by the "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that do.

Shall I not hearken to Him?

Well the only conclusion then is that the church established by Jesus Christ has been a total failure from the beginning.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well the only conclusion then is that the church established by Jesus Christ has been a total failure from the beginning.

No, just a remnant who has stayed faithful.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Instead of:

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

 

[Studyman]

Well the only conclusion then is that the church established by Jesus Christ has been a total failure from the beginning.

No, that isn't the only conclusion. Man's "church", man's righteousness, man's sabbaths, high days, judgments have been a total failure since Eve listened and followed the instruction of "another voice" in the garden.

In Jesus Time, the Mainstream religions of the world God placed Him in, promoted their religion, "Which full well rejected the commandments of God that they might live by their own traditions", as "God's Church". But Jesus Exposed that it wasn't God's Church at all. And HE should know.

It was a church, and it did have a god. It just wasn't the One True God, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. And yes, although its traditions and philosophies were adopted by the whole world as "wrought in God", it was a total failure from its beginning because it wasn't "wrought in God", but in the heart of man.

There is no religion or religious tradition, or high day or judgment created by "man" that will stand in the final judgment.

All humans are given the choice between living by God's Righteousness, or going about to establish their own righteousness, refusing to submit to God's. God's Sabbaths, Judgments and Commandments are "HIS Righteousness". This is undeniable Biblical Truth. We are warned from the very beginning about the evil of rejecting God's Righteousness, and choosing instead to establish our own. This is what happened to Eve as an example for us, not to lust after the same thing she lusted after.

But as the Jesus "of the bible" Himself explains, many simply will not be persuaded;

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Servus]

No, that isn't the only conclusion. Man's "church", man's righteousness, man's sabbaths, high days, judgments have been a total failure since Eve listened and followed the instruction of "another voice" in the garden.

In Jesus Time, the Mainstream religions of the world God placed Him in, promoted their religion, "Which full well rejected the commandments of God that they might live by their own traditions", as "God's Church". But Jesus Exposed that it wasn't God's Church at all. And HE should know.

It was a church, and it did have a god. It just wasn't the One True God, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. And yes, although its traditions and philosophies were adopted by the whole world as "wrought in God", it was a total failure from its beginning because it wasn't "wrought in God", but in the heart of man.

There is no religion or religious tradition, or high day or judgment created by "man" that will stand in the final judgment.

All humans are given the choice between living by God's Righteousness, or going about to establish their own righteousness, refusing to submit to God's. God's Sabbaths, Judgments and Commandments are "HIS Righteousness". This is undeniable Biblical Truth. We are warned from the very beginning about the evil of rejecting God's Righteousness, and choosing instead to establish our own. This is what happened to Eve as an example for us, not to lust after the same thing she lusted after.

But as the Jesus "of the bible" Himself explains, many simply will not be persuaded;

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The church Jesus established is the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is not a religion. It's discipleship in Christ.

 

[Studyman]

The church Jesus established is the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is not a religion. It's discipleship in Christ.

This is true. The Church of God has always been filled with men who Yielded themselves unto God and yielded their bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God. They are "doers" of the Jesus "of the Bible's" sayings, not hearers only.

This Body of believers serve God with more than their lips, like Abraham and all the examples of Faithful man in the Bible. The Jesus of the Bible being the head of God's Church and the Author and Finisher of their Faith.

 

[Servus]

This is true. The Church of God has always been filled with men who Yielded themselves unto God and yielded their bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God. They are "doers" of the Jesus "of the Bible's" sayings, not hearers only.

This Body of believers serve God with more than their lips, like Abraham and all the examples of Faithful man in the Bible. The Jesus of the Bible being the head of God's Church and the Author and Finisher of their Faith.

Yes and the first ones to join the Body of Christ, His Church (Matthew 16:18), were not seventh day sabbatarians.

 

[Hentenza]

It is not that difficult. Rest from work and focus on God and His

Yep. Exactly what I do on the Lord’s day.

 

[Jerry N.]

Yes and the first ones to join the Body of Christ, His Church (Matthew 16:18), were not seventh day sabbatarians.

They were Jews.

 

[Studyman]

Yes and the first ones to join the Body of Christ, His Church (Matthew 16:18), were not seventh day sabbatarians.

I don't know the meaning of all your worldly religious terms. I don't try to keep up with all this world's religious slogans and talking points, traditions, Judgments etc. So I don't know what you mean by "sabbatarians" as this word doesn't exist in the Holy Scriptures that Paul said were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I do believe all that is written in Scriptures, including Matthew 16: 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It was Peter who led this Church to obey God concerning His "Feasts of the Lord" so as to be gathered together in obedience to God, on His Holy Feast, "Pentecost". As the Elder of the Church of God under HIS New Priesthood covenant, it seems prudent to listen to Peter, and submit to his teaching. The Mainstream religion of Peter's time didn't like the fact that Peter and the Church of God were obeying God, and persecuted them, just as they and their church fathers had persecuted God's Church for centuries. You can read this for yourself if you are interested.

Acts 5: 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

Remember, they didn't like it when John the Baptist or Jesus promoted the same doctrine.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to "obey God" rather than men.

I would ask you, where did the instruction to Honor God in HIS Feasts come from? God or man? Will you answer? Peter, the rock on which God's New High Priest built His Church, continued.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And "we are his witnesses of these things"; and so "is also the Holy Ghost", whom God hath given "to them that obey him".

So Jesus said to "Live by" Every Word of God, He said to "Be Perfect even as His Father in heaven is perfect". He said "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And now Peter, Christ's Choice to direct God's Church under HIS New High Priest, is confirming this very thing, having witnessed the Spirit of God given to them who rejected the "traditions and doctrines of men that the mainstream religions of their time taught for doctrines", choosing instead to "Submit to God's Righteousness" and Honor God, not with just their lips, but with they body, heart and soul to be gathered together as Moses instructed. It's right there in the Holy Scriptures.

But when Peter detailed this Truth to the Mainstream preachers of his time, how did they react? Did they glorify God? NO, they didn't.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

So men are free to judge God and God's Laws, Judgments and "instruction in righteousness", as unworthy of their respect and honor. Lord knows this is the way of this world.

But Peter said we should obey God, not judge His Instruction.

And I believe him.

 

[Servus]

They were Jews.

"Were" being the keyword. The Jews considered Jesus to be a blasphemer and had him crucified. Those who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, were no longer Jews, they became Christians.

 

[Jerry N.]

"Were" being the keyword. The Jews considered Jesus to be a blasphemer and had him crucified. Those who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, were no longer Jews, they became Christians.

They kept the Sabbath and still do. By the way Paul was very much a Jew and wrote about it often.