The theology of cooking.

[~Anastasia~]

You hit on something good. When I first learned what we we about to do, I was expecting it to work about as well as the Baptist's tea totaling rule. You know where everyone says they do and most really don't. But i was pleasantly surprised that do they not only do it but they are very good about helping each other keep the fast. Especially the women. And with it being a small village nearly entirely Orthodox there were not smells wafting up like from Burger King.
It's much easier when we are doing it as one than attempting it alone.

I still need help.

I can't eat lentils, and there is something apparently going on with my metabolism that won't let me go more than 36-48 hours or so without some more protein-dense foods, and even that is if I plan carefully. If I fail to plan, sometimes 12-18 hours is too much.

Father M. is completely understanding, and due to various other things he assures me that I am deriving the spiritual benefits the fast is intended to create anyway, but I sometimes feel as though I am too lax. It makes me feel a bit guilty being around others who I know ARE keeping strict fasts.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I'd have thought that the passages had an obvious link to stringency in fasting and abstinence; the first example is Jesus' concern for the physical well being of those who came out to hear him teach and the second is Jesus expressing his certainty that time and occasions will arise when fasting will become a necessity but that as long as the faithful have Christ with them and the occasion for fasting is not thrust upon them they may rejoice in his presence.

I guess I could see how some see it as being thrust upon us. But I don't really feel that way. More like an opportunity. And we do enjoy his presence and celebrate each Sunday. If it were not for Celebration days being non fast days it wouldn't work well.
I don't put you down for not having the same tradition as I remember your posting during Lent. Seems a phrase like 'increased prayer' and thinking upon His passion come to memory. I have a feeling you don't feel thrust upon by that. Or your increased alms.
I admit when I first heard what we were about to do I did feel that way. But by the time we began I became eager to do it.
A tiny bit of disciple added to ones life is helpful. But you know that as you have your prayers.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'd have thought that the passages had an obvious link to stringency in fasting and abstinence; the first example is Jesus' concern for the physical well being of those who came out to hear him teach and the second is Jesus expressing his certainty that time and occasions will arise when fasting will become a necessity but that as long as the faithful have Christ with them and the occasion for fasting is not thrust upon them they may rejoice in his presence.

I guess I could see how some see it as being thrust upon us. But I don't really feel that way. More like an opportunity. And we do enjoy his presence and celebrate each Sunday. If it were not for Celebration days being non fast days it wouldn't work well.

I don't put you down for not having the same tradition as I remember your posting during Lent. Seems a phrase like 'increased prayer' and thinking upon His passion come to memory. I have a feeling you don't feel thrust upon by that. Or your increased alms.

I admit when I first heard what we were about to do I did feel that way. But by the time we began I became eager to do it.

A tiny bit of disciple added to ones life is helpful. But you know that as you have your prayers.

I do not mean "thrust upon you by church authority". What I mean is thrust upon the faithful by circumstances; war, famine, persecution, tribulation and distress.

 

[prodromos]

Father M. is completely understanding, and due to various other things he assures me that I am deriving the spiritual benefits the fast is intended to create anyway, but I sometimes feel as though I am too lax. It makes me feel a bit guilty being around others who I know ARE keeping strict fasts.

If you are following Father M.'s instructions then you ARE ALSO keeping a strict fast. You are following a discipline tailored specifically for your physical and spiritual health. There have been times where the faithful have been ordered to eat meat throughout Lent as their fast because they were otherwise in danger of becoming puffed up with pride because of the austerity of their fasting.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If you are following Father M.'s instructions then you ARE ALSO keeping a strict fast. You are following a discipline tailored specifically for your physical and spiritual health. There have been times where the faithful have been ordered to eat meat throughout Lent as their fast because they were otherwise in danger of becoming puffed up with pride because of the austerity of their fasting.

Thank you, Prodromos.

I suppose that must be a good point. I've heard people say that to fast either in too lax or too strict a way can both lead to the sin of pride. It's easier to understand how too strict a fast can lead to pride (I'm unsure how too lax a fast could do so).

It's just me .... someone did me a good turn a few weeks ago and it ended up bringing up the whole issue of what I ate and didn't, and I felt self-conscious because of the conversation.

I don't even keep his recommendations perfectly, in cases where I fail to prepare ahead of time. It just seems odd to be given different instructions from everyone else. I'm still getting used to all of this.

Thanks for the post.

 

[prodromos]

I'd have thought that the passages had an obvious link to stringency in fasting and abstinence; the first example is Jesus' concern for the physical well being of those who came out to hear him teach

The context of the first passage was people who had not eaten any food for a few days. This has nothing to do with the discipline of abstaining from certain foods for various time periods

the second is Jesus expressing his certainty that time and occasions will arise when fasting will become a necessity but that as long as the faithful have Christ with them and the occasion for fasting is not thrust upon them they may rejoice in his presence.

I think you are indulging in a bit of eisegesis. Christ gave His disciples clear instructions on how they how they should act when they are fasting, yet it is also apparent that they weren't fasting now that Christ was with them. It seems pretty clear to me that Christ was speaking in terms of His Ascension when He spoke of the bridegroom leaving and that His followers would be expected to fast at times. What were all the fasts and feasts of the Old Testament if not examples for the Church to follow.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

More than cooking, I tend to wonder on the SPIRIT one cooks in that matters the most....


As noted best elsewhere:

Torah was meant to change; don’t read it as a timeless book of rules. Some things change within Torah. At first Israel was told meat for eating had to be slaughtered at the Tabernacle (Lev 17:3-4). But this was for the time in the desert. Later when Israel moved into the land the practice would change (Deut 12:15). One of the big ways Torah was meant to change was when the culture changed. Solomon’s Temple was in many ways unlike the Tabernacle. The job of the Levites changed when Israel’s sanctuary was no longer a portable tent. Slavery was permitted but was also contrary to commands like “love your neighbor as yourself” and “you shall love the resident alien as yourself.” It was contrary to “I am the Lord who brought you out of the house of slavery.” Torah was meant to change. Torah now should be that slavery is abolished.
​

There should no more issue with transition in the Torah than one would have issue with Christ Himself and the Prophets doing the same dynamics with progression.

What was promoted in the time of the Mosaic differed from that of the Prophets - as there were no risings from the dead in the time of Moses, whereas it was a new thing in the time of Elisha/Elijah and the same with other miracles. And none of that was ever seen as a matter of either not having Torah established or not having Law - but it was seen as things building on one another. In example:

2 Kings 4:38-46

Death in the Pot
38 Elisha returned to Gilgal and there was a famine in that region. While the company of the prophets was meeting with him, he said to his servant, “Put on the large pot and cook some stew for these prophets.”

39 One of them went out into the fields to gather herbs and found a wild vine and picked as many of its gourds as his garment could hold. When he returned, he cut them up into the pot of stew, though no one knew what they were. 40 The stew was poured out for the men, but as they began to eat it, they cried out, “Man of God, there is death in the pot!” And they could not eat it.

41 Elisha said, “Get some flour.” He put it into the pot and said, “Serve it to the people to eat.” And there was nothing harmful in the pot
​

Seeing how even with Elisha God was able to make that which was "poisonous" into something edible thru radical means---as seen in the situation with there being death in the Pot for Elisha when he found wild gourds to eat...with God cleansing it through unlikely means (2 Kings 4:38-41 ), there is a clear example of the Lord doing something unprecedented that never occurred before in previous times.

Elisha's third miracles is reminiscent of the healing of the water at Jericho (II Kings 2:19-22) when the water supply was contaminated..due to the rebuilding of the city having taken place under the shadow of Joshua's curse ( Joshua 6:26, I Kings 16:34, etc)--as the remedy offered by the New Joshua (Elisha), who had just crossed the Jordan, involved a new bowel and salt. New items being uncontaminated were customarily employed in rituals in the ancient Near East (Judges 16:11, I Kings 11:29, etc).....and elsewhere, salt was associated with the covenant and is included as part of offerings made to the Lord (Leviticus 2:13, Numbers 18:19, etc) as well as being used in other specific rituals (Judges 9L45, Ezekiel 16:4). But all of that's to say that the healing of the waters was truly done by Supernatural means - and something brand new to the times - even though it was similar to what occurred in Exodus 15:19-23 with the Lord using Moses to make bitter waters sweet by tossing in a piece of wood to make it sweet.


With the situation in 2 Kings 4:38-41, as with salt thrown into the water at Jericho, the flour used by Elisha is a visible sign of the Lord's power working through Elisha. ....and amazingly, after the poisonous gourd was cured, there was the final miracle of provision in II Kings 4:42-44 where people dependent on Elisha brought a small amount of food (i.e. "bread of the firsfruits"). A limited amount of food was once again multiplied in face of the incomprehension of the servant so that it not only provides for the immediate needs..but also produces a surplus......just as Elisha had done in II Kings 4:1-7, His master before him with another widow (I Kings 17:8-24) and as Jesus did often in Matthew 14:13-21/Matthew 15:32-39 and John 6, etc. It is the Final demonstration in the chapter of how the GOD of Elisha heals, provides and brings life from death.

Jesus Himself mirrored the progressive/new actions of the Prophets with healing others, he did the same when it came to restoring waters/making new things out of that which was dead. The miracle - his FIRST miracle in Cana - is evidence of that as seen in John 2:4

Jesus turns Water into Wine​

To run out of food or wine during those seven days was a social nightmare. Mary realized the seriousness of the situation immediately. when she said “They have no wine” - indicating that the social standing of the family would be devastated and their reputation in the community would be ruined. John clearly tells us, “Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washing, each holding 20 to 30 gallons, Jesus told them, ‘Fill the jars with water.’ So they filled them to the brim” (John 2:6).

The stone jars held water normally used only for ceremonial washing, a symbolic act of cleansing from sin, not for cleaning off the dust of the road or other dirt. When you add the weight of the water to the weight of the stone jar, each full jar might weigh over 300 pounds. More than likely, the servants used smaller jars to go to the nearest well and bring back water to fill the large jars. Filling the water jugs so guests could wash themselves was a normal part of a servant’s job. However, dipping out some of the wash water to serve as a drink to someone was VERY unusual - for this would be like offering a cup of bath water to a guest in your home​

Using ceremonial washing water to make good drink would be akin to taking dirty dishwater. The guests would have come to the wedding along a dusty road. If they rode on donkeys, they would have had to stop along the way to care for their animals. When they arrived at the wedding feast, they would dip their dirty hands into the water to wash off the sweat and grime of the day.

Jesus told the servants to fill the stone water jars that guests used for ceremonial washing with water, which they did (2:6-7). Six stone jars full would be a very large amount of water, and again, the water was not for drinking, but for ceremonial washing. When Jesus then tells them to take some water to the master of the banquet, the servants had to be confused - for wild to consider that Jesus was really going to give the master of the banquet ceremonial washing water to drink - but thankfully, somewhere between the servants drawing the water and taking it to the master of the banquet, the water turned into wine, the best wine , which is contrary to normal practice, but appreciative to those in attendance (John 2:9-10). Jesus not only cleaned what was once dirty, but He made it into something wonderful...


By turning water into wine, Jesus showed two important qualities of Himself. One, Jesus turned what is dirty into something amazing - for the ceremonial washing water, which sat in dirty washing pots would not have been tasteful to anybody at the wedding - but Jesus takes that and makes it into something POWERFUL....just as He does for all of those serving Him. He was not made UNCLEAN by that which made others such. Two, his miracle showed how when Christ gives, he gives PLENTY - in abundance...

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

More than cooking, I tend to wonder on the SPIRIT one cooks in that matters the most....


As noted best elsewhere:

Torah was meant to change; don’t read it as a timeless book of rules. Some things change within Torah. At first Israel was told meat for eating had to be slaughtered at the Tabernacle (Lev 17:3-4). But this was for the time in the desert. Later when Israel moved into the land the practice would change (Deut 12:15). One of the big ways Torah was meant to change was when the culture changed. Solomon’s Temple was in many ways unlike the Tabernacle. The job of the Levites changed when Israel’s sanctuary was no longer a portable tent. Slavery was permitted but was also contrary to commands like “love your neighbor as yourself” and “you shall love the resident alien as yourself.” It was contrary to “I am the Lord who brought you out of the house of slavery.” Torah was meant to change. Torah now should be that slavery is abolished.
​

There should no more issue with transition in the Torah than one would have issue with Christ Himself and the Prophets doing the same dynamics with progression.

What was promoted in the time of the Mosaic differed from that of the Prophets - as there were no risings from the dead in the time of Moses, whereas it was a new thing in the time of Elisha/Elijah and the same with other miracles. And none of that was ever seen as a matter of either not having Torah established or not having Law - but it was seen as things building on one another. In example:

2 Kings 4:38-46

Death in the Pot
38 Elisha returned to Gilgal and there was a famine in that region. While the company of the prophets was meeting with him, he said to his servant, “Put on the large pot and cook some stew for these prophets.”

39 One of them went out into the fields to gather herbs and found a wild vine and picked as many of its gourds as his garment could hold. When he returned, he cut them up into the pot of stew, though no one knew what they were. 40 The stew was poured out for the men, but as they began to eat it, they cried out, “Man of God, there is death in the pot!” And they could not eat it.

41 Elisha said, “Get some flour.” He put it into the pot and said, “Serve it to the people to eat.” And there was nothing harmful in the pot
​

Seeing how even with Elisha God was able to make that which was "poisonous" into something edible thru radical means---as seen in the situation with there being death in the Pot for Elisha when he found wild gourds to eat...with God cleansing it through unlikely means (2 Kings 4:38-41 ), there is a clear example of the Lord doing something unprecedented that never occurred before in previous times.

Elisha's third miracles is reminiscent of the healing of the water at Jericho (II Kings 2:19-22) when the water supply was contaminated..due to the rebuilding of the city having taken place under the shadow of Joshua's curse ( Joshua 6:26, I Kings 16:34, etc)--as the remedy offered by the New Joshua (Elisha), who had just crossed the Jordan, involved a new bowel and salt. New items being uncontaminated were customarily employed in rituals in the ancient Near East (Judges 16:11, I Kings 11:29, etc).....and elsewhere, salt was associated with the covenant and is included as part of offerings made to the Lord (Leviticus 2:13, Numbers 18:19, etc) as well as being used in other specific rituals (Judges 9L45, Ezekiel 16:4). But all of that's to say that the healing of the waters was truly done by Supernatural means - and something brand new to the times - even though it was similar to what occurred in Exodus 15:19-23 with the Lord using Moses to make bitter waters sweet by tossing in a piece of wood to make it sweet.


With the situation in 2 Kings 4:38-41, as with salt thrown into the water at Jericho, the flour used by Elisha is a visible sign of the Lord's power working through Elisha. ....and amazingly, after the poisonous gourd was cured, there was the final miracle of provision in II Kings 4:42-44 where people dependent on Elisha brought a small amount of food (i.e. "bread of the firsfruits"). A limited amount of food was once again multiplied in face of the incomprehension of the servant so that it not only provides for the immediate needs..but also produces a surplus......just as Elisha had done in II Kings 4:1-7, His master before him with another widow (I Kings 17:8-24) and as Jesus did often in Matthew 14:13-21/Matthew 15:32-39 and John 6, etc. It is the Final demonstration in the chapter of how the GOD of Elisha heals, provides and brings life from death.

Jesus Himself mirrored the progressive/new actions of the Prophets with healing others, he did the same when it came to restoring waters/making new things out of that which was dead. The miracle - his FIRST miracle in Cana - is evidence of that as seen in John 2:4

Jesus turns Water into Wine​

To run out of food or wine during those seven days was a social nightmare. Mary realized the seriousness of the situation immediately. when she said “They have no wine” - indicating that the social standing of the family would be devastated and their reputation in the community would be ruined. John clearly tells us, “Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washing, each holding 20 to 30 gallons, Jesus told them, ‘Fill the jars with water.’ So they filled them to the brim” (John 2:6).

The stone jars held water normally used only for ceremonial washing, a symbolic act of cleansing from sin, not for cleaning off the dust of the road or other dirt. When you add the weight of the water to the weight of the stone jar, each full jar might weigh over 300 pounds. More than likely, the servants used smaller jars to go to the nearest well and bring back water to fill the large jars. Filling the water jugs so guests could wash themselves was a normal part of a servant’s job. However, dipping out some of the wash water to serve as a drink to someone was VERY unusual - for this would be like offering a cup of bath water to a guest in your home​

Using ceremonial washing water to make good drink would be akin to taking dirty dishwater. The guests would have come to the wedding along a dusty road. If they rode on donkeys, they would have had to stop along the way to care for their animals. When they arrived at the wedding feast, they would dip their dirty hands into the water to wash off the sweat and grime of the day.

Jesus told the servants to fill the stone water jars that guests used for ceremonial washing with water, which they did (2:6-7). Six stone jars full would be a very large amount of water, and again, the water was not for drinking, but for ceremonial washing. When Jesus then tells them to take some water to the master of the banquet, the servants had to be confused - for wild to consider that Jesus was really going to give the master of the banquet ceremonial washing water to drink - but thankfully, somewhere between the servants drawing the water and taking it to the master of the banquet, the water turned into wine, the best wine , which is contrary to normal practice, but appreciative to those in attendance (John 2:9-10). Jesus not only cleaned what was once dirty, but He made it into something wonderful...


By turning water into wine, Jesus showed two important qualities of Himself. One, Jesus turned what is dirty into something amazing - for the ceremonial washing water, which sat in dirty washing pots would not have been tasteful to anybody at the wedding - but Jesus takes that and makes it into something POWERFUL....just as He does for all of those serving Him. He was not made UNCLEAN by that which made others such. Two, his miracle showed how when Christ gives, he gives PLENTY - in abundance...

Some very interesting food analogies there

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Some very interesting food analogies there

Cool to know