The Ten vs the 603

[Gary K]

Are there any commandments other than the 10 involved in Deuteronomy 6:4? Any other commandments from the 603?

Yes, all ten of them. for we must love God to followtheprinciples found in the other 9 commandments.

Look the 603 up if you're that interested in reading from Pharisaical sources.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes, all ten of them. for we must love God to followtheprinciples found in the other 9 commandments.

Are you saying that only the Ten Commandments are found in Deuteronomy 6:4?

Look the 603 up if you're that interested in reading from Pharisaical sources.

Is the "603" number why you keep bringing up the Pharisees? It's in the thread title. I'm just using it as shorthand in this thread for "instructions other than the Ten Commandments."

So, if we consider what commandments from the law of Moses we are to keep today, do any of them come from the instructions other than the Ten Commandments?

 

[Gary K]

Are you saying that only the Ten Commandments are found in Deuteronomy 6:4?


Is the "603" number why you keep bringing up the Pharisees? It's in the thread title. I'm just using it as shorthand in this thread for "instructions other than the Ten Commandments."

So, if we consider what commandments from the law of Moses we are to keep today, do any of them come from the instructions other than the Ten Commandments?

Why would a person want to separate verse 4 from the context in which it was said? Notice the conjunction and as the first word in verse 5 which signifies verse 4 is a part of a much larger thought.

Deuteronomy 6: 4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.*n2
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
10 And it shall be, when the Lord thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,
11 And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;
12 Then beware lest thou forget the Lord, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.*n3
13 Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.

You're becoming just like a Pharisee when you're implying the instructions as to frontlets and hands and sign posts should be carried out literally. The continuation of the passage makes this obvious. The message is to keep God in the forefront of our minds in all we think, do, and say. as verse 7 plainly says. The Pharisees did exactly what you're implying and they lost sight of God completely as they made them the physical objects the point.

Jesus made the same point.

Matthew 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

[Leaf473]

Why would a person want to separate verse 4 from the context in which it was said?

I'm not sure, that's why I was asking if that's what you were doing.

Notice the conjunction and as the first word in verse 5 which signifies verse 4 is a part of a much larger thought.

Deuteronomy 6: 4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.*n2
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
10 And it shall be, when the Lord thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,
11 And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;
12 Then beware lest thou forget the Lord, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.*n3
13 Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.

You're becoming just like a Pharisee when you're implying the instructions as to frontlets and hands and sign posts should be carried out literally. The continuation of the passage makes this obvious. The message is to keep God in the forefront of our minds in all we think, do, and say. as verse 7 plainly says. The Pharisees did exactly what you're implying and they lost sight of God completely as they made them the physical objects the point.

Jesus made the same point.

Matthew 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Okay, and then applying it to the thread topic and what we've been talking about, are any of the instructions in the law of Moses in effect on us today, other than the 10 commandments? Or is that what you're getting at when you talk about not carrying things out literally, there are things that apply to us that we don't carry out literally? If so, I'd agree!

 

[Gary K]

I'm not sure, that's why I was asking if that's what you were doing.


Okay, and then applying it to the thread topic and what we've been talking about, are any of the instructions in the law of Moses in effect on us today, other than the 10 commandments? Or is that what you're getting at when you talk about not carrying things out literally, there are things that apply to us that we don't carry out literally? If so, I'd agree!

Other than the 10 commandments, only the dietary laws as those directly affect our health and thus our spiritual understanding.

 

[Leaf473]

Other than the 10 commandments, only the dietary laws as those directly affect our health and thus our spiritual understanding.

Okay, that seems reasonable, and then just the scriptural piece...

I don't think Dietary laws is a scriptural phrase, so are we talking about anything that goes into our mouths? I'm asking because there are some laws about clean and unclean that could relate to what goes into our mouths, but might not be normally thought of as dietary laws.

Are you talking about just things that go into our mouths, and not other laws about clean and unclean?

And I think it would be good to have the scriptural connection between dietary laws and spiritual understanding. Is there a passage that talks about that?

 

[Gary K]

Okay, that seems reasonable, and then just the scriptural piece...

I don't think Dietary laws is a scriptural phrase, so are we talking about anything that goes into our mouths? I'm asking because there are some laws about clean and unclean that could relate to what goes into our mouths, but might not be normally thought of as dietary laws.

Are you talking about just things that go into our mouths, and not other laws about clean and unclean?

And I think it would be good to have the scriptural connection between dietary laws and spiritual understanding. Is there a passage that talks about that?

The only Biblical laws of clean and unclean that I know of relate to meat. They were known before the flood.

Genesis 7: 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

 

[Leaf473]

The only Biblical laws of clean and unclean that I know of relate to meat. They were known before the flood.

Genesis 7: 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Well, here's an example

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:35 - New American Standard Bible

Moreover, everything on which part of their carcass may fall becomes unclean; an oven or a stove shall be smashed; they are unclean and shall continue as unclean to you.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Daniel Marsh]

it's 613

 

[Gary K]

Well, here's an example

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:35 - New American Standard Bible

Moreover, everything on which part of their carcass may fall becomes unclean; an oven or a stove shall be smashed; they are unclean and shall continue as unclean to you.

www.biblegateway.com

What does that have to do with food?

 

[Leaf473]

it's 613

That's true, that 613 is the traditional number. The OP is separating out the Ten Commandments, thus the number in the title.

 

[Leaf473]

What does that have to do with food?

Well, an oven, of course, isn't something that you eat. But it is related to the preparation of food.

So... Would you consider that a "dietary law"?

 

[Divide]

I only read the OP and the last page of the thread so someone may have mentioned ths already...

But didn't the teaching about the new wineskins clear it up about the law? The old wine is the law and the new wine is grace and love from Jesus, and we are to make ourselves a new wineskin to be able to receive the new wine?

 

[Gary K]

Well, an oven, of course, isn't something that you eat. But it is related to the preparation of food.

So... Would you consider that a "dietary law"?

I would call it common sense not to eat food that has touched leprosy.

 

[Gary K]

I only read the OP and the last page of the thread so someone may have mentioned ths already...

But didn't the teaching about the new wineskins clear it up about the law? The old wine is the law and the new wine is grace and love from Jesus, and we are to make ourselves a new wineskin to be able to receive the new wine?

That is speaking about the new birth experience. The old man cannot contain the new spiritual life. It is destroyed by new concepts and beliefs which the true Christian lives by.

 

[Leaf473]

I only read the OP and the last page of the thread so someone may have mentioned ths already...

But didn't the teaching about the new wineskins clear it up about the law? The old wine is the law and the new wine is grace and love from Jesus, and we are to make ourselves a new wineskin to be able to receive the new wine?

It sounds reasonable to me, but we have some wonderful Christian brothers and sisters who want to keep at least some parts of the law. So we have this section CF where we can hopefully have edifying discussions about it!

 

[Leaf473]

I would call it common sense not to eat food that has touched leprosy.

Well, it's not leprosy, it's certain kinds of dead animals.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:29-38 - New American Standard Bible

‘Now these are to you the unclean among the swarming things which swarm on the earth: the mole, the mouse, and the great lizard in its kinds, the gecko, the crocodile, the lizard, the sand reptile, and the chameleon. These are to you the unclean among all the swarming things; whoever touches...

www.biblegateway.com

I'm trying to clear up the issue of what it is you consider "dietary laws"

 

[Leaf473]

I would call it common sense not to eat food that has touched leprosy.

Duplicate post. But while I'm editing it anyways, the part about the oven relates to what to do with the oven, not directly to putting food in your mouth.

 

[Gary K]

Well, it's not leprosy, it's certain kinds of dead animals.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:29-38 - New American Standard Bible

‘Now these are to you the unclean among the swarming things which swarm on the earth: the mole, the mouse, and the great lizard in its kinds, the gecko, the crocodile, the lizard, the sand reptile, and the chameleon. These are to you the unclean among all the swarming things; whoever touches...

www.biblegateway.com

I'm trying to clear up the issue of what it is you consider "dietary laws"

I thought this was more of the Leprosy bit.

Why wouldn't unclean food make the cooking apparatus unclean when they fall on it. It's more of the same.

 

[Divide]

That is speaking about the new birth experience. The old man cannot contain the new spiritual life. It is destroyed by new concepts and beliefs which the true Christian lives by.

Exactly. Now we live in the dispensation of grace age. But before Jesus came they were undel the dispensation of law. Jesus said, I have new and better covenant with you now, and we entered the age of grace. The new covenant is the new wine and the old wine is the law.