The Ten Commandments stands for ever.

[VictorC]

There is only one ten commandments. Those written by God Himself.

There were two, actually.
Moses broke the first issue.
God handed him a second issue, and that's the first covenant that God took away when He established a new covenant: "He takes away the first that He may establish the second" (Hebrews 10:9).

The new covenant isn't compatible with the first that was given to Moses. That's why Galatians 4:30 instructs us to cast off the Sinai covenant, which was the ten commandments.
30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
Galatians 4:24 defined the bondwoman as the Sinai covenant.

 

[VictorC]

Dear Elder 111. Yes, the 10 Commandments, God`s Law will stand for ever. When Jesus came he gave us 2 Commandments, they contain all what God gave us in His 10 Commandments. 1) Love God with all our hearts, all our souls, and all our minds.

Please show us where and when Jesus ever gave us this commandment.

God is our Creator and Heavenly Father, God made us in His image, God is LOVE. 2) Love our neighbour, all others, friend or foe, love them as we love ourselves. We are the only ones on this Earth who can think and reason things out, we know the difference between ( selfless) loving and not loving, and since God made us in His image, we are made to use this trait. Jesus told us in Matthew, chapter 22, verses 37 - 40 on these 2 Commandments: ( love God and love all others) on these 2 Commandments hang all the law and all the the prophets. Therefore Love is the Greatest, and will last forever. St. Paul tells us in 1) Corinthians, chapter 13, verses 4 - 8 what love is and God wants from us. To be loving and forgiving, to be kind and considerate, to be long suffering, Not to be envious or seek our own will, etc. God`s Law stands forever, and also gives rewards for Good, and consequences for Not Good, I say this humbly with love, Elder. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

Review Matthew 22:35-40 once again. Jesus never gave us the commandments you claimed He did. He answered a lawyer's request for the greatest commandment found in the law, and that was the answer given. Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 6:5 as the greatest commandment.

Two questions:
Why were the words of Moses considered greater than the covenant engraved onto tables of stone?
and
Why wasn't this commandment ever conveyed into the new covenant?

 

[wayseer]

There is only one ten commandments. Those written by God Himself.

Which ones? Moses smashed the first lot. Then there are those detailed in Genesis which are different to those in Deuteronomy. And there appears to be more than just 10 commandments.

 

[Frogster]

Living under law,just is a boring merry-go-round.

You can never be just under it,because all it does is show sin...the great reviver of Adam.

So if folks want the flesh..just walk hand in hand with Adam and the law.


Rom 3;20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

 

[Elder 111]

If you keep the law (Ten commandments) because you love God or to prove (demonstrate) you love God and I don't keep them (the sabbath) it must mean that I hate God. This is the anti-thesis of your statement. It is common for the next statement to be something on the order of you're not a christian. After all don't I love God? It then becomes a requirement and not optional. Obligation (requirement) is not love.
Not at all! Dose a man that says he loves his wife expected to have other women or obligated to keep the marriage vow? Does the fact that he keeps the marriage Vow mean that he does not have an option? Are you implying that I must put aside the law to prove that I have an option? Am I free to do whatever I fell like because I have the option? I tell you the truth, it is a requirement. What God says we must do or else we do what satan says. There are only two ways God’s or satan’s we have the option to choose one and the requirement to fully obey the master we choose.

You need to read the next page where it says: John 15:10 (King James Version) If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
Exactly, we cannot abide in God love by doing other than keeping His commandments. He that says he loves Him and keeps not my commandments is a liar 1 John 2:4.

Explain how My commandments and My Father's commandments are the same. The sentence structure will not allow them to be the same. If they are the same we have another problem, a doctrinal problem with the Trinity.
I am my father are one John 10:30. What are you implying? All Christ is saying is that did His father’s will, and this was no more demonstrated than in the garden of Gethsemane. [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt Matt. 26:39.[/FONT]

We know that Jesus kept the commandments (Jesus was and is sinless) and John 15:10 says Jesus kept His Father's commandments. It seems to me that the ten commandments are not the commandments issued by Jesus. So what are the commandments of Jesus? I need you to quote them, please.

Exodus 20:2-14. Jesus said before Abraham was I am. John 8:58 The I am was the one that was with and had sent Moses.

I would like to address your thread title a little more. What do you mean by The Ten Commandments stands forever? We have a new chadash pronounced khaw-dawsh (Jer 31:31-33) covenant. Its mirror quote in Hebrews 8:8-13 says kainos covenant. Both mean new as in not previously. Verse 32 backs up this meaning of new with not according to. Not according to what? ...the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

It will be written on our hearts. Is that not what Jeremiah says. Did not Jesus It will not Change. Did not the bible end pronouncing a blessing on those that keep his Commandments? Rev. 22:14 KJV.

Jesus testifies that the new covenant is in existence in Mat 26:28: For this is my blood of the new testament (or covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Do not be ridiculous this had to do with the Passover being replaced by the communion service. Lamb of God replacing the Passover lamb.

Should you have a problem identifying the covenant talked about in Jeremiah please read Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

If we are obligated to the ten commandments, why does Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) tell us to throw out the law in Gal 4:30. Why does he also call the law a dead husband Rom 7:3, 4?
No he did not. This has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments!!!!! This deals with all those other laws of circumcision, Passover, feast days, Day of Atonement etc. these points to the coming of Christ but now he has come, they are no longer needed.
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Do you believe that a Christian should steal, fornicate, lie, have idols, call God’s name in vain and it will be alright in the eyes of God? If you do not please don’t ever tell anybody that the law is abolish again!! It is either one or the other but not both. If you have a problem with the Sabbath, that is your business.[/FONT]

 

[Elder 111]

Frogster
The law ends because we do not sin if we are in the Spirit. The strenght of the law is sin which leads to death but we have life in Christ. 1 Cor 15;56 Death the result of the law will end. Get rid of the law and we do not even have Grace.Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Rom. 5:20

 

[Elder 111]

Bugkiller
You have a selceted definition of sin. Sin was before the law Gal 3:19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. This verse also states that the law had an expiration date till the seed should come.
This is not the Ten commandments

I think you are trying to establish the grace pusher is anomos. Not so. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. And Gal 5:16 -21. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Not at all. Do you realize that what you have quoted is the law and that those who do such will not see God?

This is the new covenant Jer 31:34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Again do you realize that there would be no need of forgiveness except the law was broken?

You must be referring to Rev 1:10. Why would John suddenly switch from the word sabbaton which he used everywhere else to the word kuriakos (kuraike)? It makes no sense. Some say he was trying to slide something by the government which banished him to Patmos. Surely the government was not that ignorant. They would easily recognize the rest of the material was not in their favor. Paul uses the same term to address the Lord's supper in I Cor 11. Surely you would not interpret it to mean a feast to the emperor. The term kuraike was in common use long before Revelation was written. It was a common understanding among the Christians that it meant our day called Sunday even without the word hemera. Note Rev 1:10 says on the Lord's day. It does not say day of the Lord which has an entirely different meaning. If you have an explaination why he did not use the word sabbaton, I am interested

Kuriakos, means belonging to the lord. Now as far as I know God did not lay claim to any day but the Sabbath. I[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']f thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isaiah 58:13. [/font][FONT='Trebuchet MS','sans-serif']Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Matt 2:28 Paul could have used the same word because the supper was the lord’s He gave it, just like the Sabbath[/font][FONT='Trebuchet MS','sans-serif']. [/font]

 

[bugkiller]

If you keep the law (Ten commandments) because you love God or to prove (demonstrate) you love God and I don't keep them (the sabbath) it must mean that I hate God. This is the anti-thesis of your statement. It is common for the next statement to be something on the order of you're not a christian. After all don't I love God? It then becomes a requirement and not optional. Obligation (requirement) is not love.
Not at all! Dose a man that says he loves his wife expected to have other women or obligated to keep the marriage vow? Does the fact that he keeps the marriage Vow mean that he does not have an option? Are you implying that I must put aside the law to prove that I have an option? Am I free to do whatever I fell like because I have the option? I tell you the truth, it is a requirement. What God says we must do or else we do what satan says. There are only two ways God’s or satan’s we have the option to choose one and the requirement to fully obey the master we choose.

I either do not understand your answer or you said something else. What is asked is how is it love for you to do and obligation for me to do? If it is a required obligation for either, it is a required obligation for both. Required obligation is not love.

You need to read the next page where it says: John 15:10 (King James Version) If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
Exactly, we cannot abide in God love by doing other than keeping His commandments. He that says he loves Him and keeps not my commandments is a liar 1 John 2:4.

You did not answer my question. I asked how are My commandments and My Father's commandments the same. And what is/are His (God's) commandments? 1 John 3:23 (KJV) And this is His (God's) commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He (Jesus) gave us commandment. Notice a single commandment of God. And this is written by the same John who wrote Revelation 22:14. Since it says commandments I believe that they are the commandments of Jesus. You reference to I John 2:4 are commandments of Jesus, not the 10 commandments issued at Sinai. Moses (as all mankind)was forbidden to see Who Moses talked with and live. Ex 33:20 Thousands have seen Jesus and lived. Moses talked with the speaker of Gen 3:15. The Speaker and the Seed of woman are not the same entity. Can you show where the Speaker becomes Jesus prior to Sinai? I am very interested. It must come between Genesis 3:15 and Exodus 21 or a verse unquestionably referenceing such.

Explain how My commandments and My Father's commandments are the same. The sentence structure will not allow them to be the same. If they are the same we have another problem, a doctrinal problem with the Trinity.

I am my father are one John 10:30.

This does not say Jesus and the Father are the same entity. You are denying the trinity.

What are you implying?

I am impying nothing. I am asking you a question.

All Christ is saying is that did His father’s will, and this was no more demonstrated than in the garden of Gethsemane.

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt Matt. 26:39.[/font]

That may be from you John 10:30 quote, but not from John 15:10. The statements in John 15:10 are of ownership. If Jesus and the Father are the same entity why did Jesus not say O my Jesus, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as I will Matt. 26:39. Jesus and the Father are not the same entity. They are both God yes.

We know that Jesus kept the commandments (Jesus was and is sinless) and John 15:10 says Jesus kept His Father's commandments. It seems to me that the ten commandments are not the commandments issued by Jesus. So what are the commandments of Jesus? I need you to quote them, please.

Exodus 20:2-14. Jesus said before Abraham was I am. John 8:58 The I am was the one that was with and had sent Moses.

Here is Exodus 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Do you notice a difference? I do. I see all Capital letters in the I AM THAT I AM statement and again when instructed Who sent Moses, I AM. In the context of John 8:58 Jesus is making the statement that indeed He is God. Jesus is not declaring that He is the I AM meaning God the Father who spoke to Moses from the burning bush. I guess you could say that the KJV translators were extremely sloppy. I think they realized there is a difference in the statements. Jesus is also not declaring that He is God the Father in John 10:30.

I would like to address your thread title a little more. What do you mean by The Ten Commandments stands forever? We have a new chadash pronounced khaw-dawsh (Jer 31:31-33) covenant. Its mirror quote in Hebrews 8:8-13 says kainos covenant. Both mean new as in not previously. Verse 32 backs up this meaning of new with not according to. Not according to what? ...the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

It will be written on our hearts. Is that not what Jeremiah says. Did not Jesus It will not Change. Did not the bible end pronouncing a blessing on those that keep his Commandments? Rev. 22:14 KJV.

If I were arguing for a renewed - chadash pronounced khaw-dash or neos covenant I would agree. This is not the case as I pointed out above. Movement does not make something new. Hosea 2:11 states: I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts. Cease here is thw word shabat. Notice only one b. This word shabat is a verb. It is also the same word used in Genesis 2:3 and translatedas rested. It means to stop as in a cease and desist court order to not do/perform again. I think Jeremiah has it right when he writes Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. I guess that you can deny scripture. You are saying the only difference is place/location. That is no difference in the covenant.

Jesus testifies that the new covenant is in existence in Mat 26:28: For this is my blood of the new testament (or covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Do not be ridiculous this had to do with the Passover being replaced by the communion service. Lamb of God replacing the Passover lamb.

I would very much agree that is included in the meaning. I also read in I Cor 11:25 as oft as ye drink it and v 26 as often as ye eat. So it is not merely the replacement of the passover lamb with the Passover Lamb. This is new and different than the Old Covenant in meaning and occurance. Jesus does not use the words new passover.

Should you have a problem identifying the covenant talked about in Jeremiah please read Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

If we are obligated to the ten commandments, why does Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) tell us to throw out the law in Gal 4:30. Why does he also call the law a dead husband Rom 7:3, 4?
No he did not. This has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments!!!!! This deals with all those other laws of circumcision, Passover, feast days, Day of Atonement etc. these points to the coming of Christ but now he has come, they are no longer needed.
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Do you believe that a Christian should steal, fornicate, lie, have idols, call God’s name in vain and it will be alright in the eyes of God? If you do not please don’t ever tell anybody that the law is abolish again!! It is either one or the other but not both. If you have a problem with the Sabbath, that is your business.[/font]

In reference to the Gal 4:30 mention you need to start at verse 22 for the full details. Paul is clearly calling the bondwoaman Hagar and her son the law of Moses and to cast them out. In relation to Romans 7;3, 4 Paul is clearly talking abouthe ten commandments in the chapter by direct reference to adultery v 3 and lust - coveting v 7.

No I do not believe that a Christian should steal, fornicate, lie, have idols, call God’s name in vain and it will be alright in the eyes of God? I refer you to Romans 8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. And Galatians 5:16-21: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

If you doubt that the law of sin and death is the law of Moses I refer you to II Cor 3:7.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

Frogster
The law ends because we do not sin if we are in the Spirit. The strenght of the law is sin which leads to death but we have life in Christ. 1 Cor 15;56 Death the result of the law will end. Get rid of the law and we do not even have Grace.Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Rom. 5:20

I think u agree.I cant tell?
Unless it was a typo,the power of sin is the law,not the other way around,and since the law was removed,there is grace,Ron 6;14.

 

[Stryder06]

I think u agree.I cant tell?
Unless it was a typo,the power of sin is the law,not the other way around,and since the law was removed,there is grace,Ron 6;14.

You might have messed that up a little bit forggy. Grace never took a backseat to the law.

 

[Yab Yum]

I think u agree.I cant tell?
Unless it was a typo,the power of sin is the law,not the other way around,and since the law was removed,there is grace,Ron 6;14.

And yet:

Rom 2:2 Now we are aware that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who are committing such things.
Rom 2:3 Yet are you reckoning on this, O man, who art judging those committing such things, and art doing the same, that you will be escaping the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or are you despising the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, being ignorant that the kindness of God is leading you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 Yet, in accord with your hardness and unrepentant heart you are hoarding for yourself indignation in the day of indignation and revelation of the just judgment of God,
Rom 2:6 Who will be paying each one in accord with his acts:
Rom 2:7 to those, indeed, who by endurance in good acts are seeking glory and honor and incorruption, life eonian;
Rom 2:8 yet to those of faction and stubborn, indeed, as to the truth, yet persuaded to injustice, indignation and fury,
Rom 2:9 affliction and distress, on every human soul which is effecting evil, both of the Jew first and of the Greek,
Rom 2:10 yet glory and honor and peace to every worker of good, both to the Jew first, and to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God,
Rom 2:12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.
Rom 2:13 For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them,
Rom 2:16 in the day when God will be judging the hidden things of humanity, according to my evangel, through Jesus Christ.

 

[Frogster]

And yet:

Rom 2:2 Now we are aware that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who are committing such things.
Rom 2:3 Yet are you reckoning on this, O man, who art judging those committing such things, and art doing the same, that you will be escaping the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or are you despising the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, being ignorant that the kindness of God is leading you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 Yet, in accord with your hardness and unrepentant heart you are hoarding for yourself indignation in the day of indignation and revelation of the just judgment of God,
Rom 2:6 Who will be paying each one in accord with his acts:
Rom 2:7 to those, indeed, who by endurance in good acts are seeking glory and honor and incorruption, life eonian;
Rom 2:8 yet to those of faction and stubborn, indeed, as to the truth, yet persuaded to injustice, indignation and fury,
Rom 2:9 affliction and distress, on every human soul which is effecting evil, both of the Jew first and of the Greek,
Rom 2:10 yet glory and honor and peace to every worker of good, both to the Jew first, and to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God,
Rom 2:12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.
Rom 2:13 For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them,
Rom 2:16 in the day when God will be judging the hidden things of humanity, according to my evangel, through Jesus Christ.

Good morning.
Well yes,,but those 3 chapters,all culminate to show that we need to come to Christ,then we are forgivem,then we are not under the principle of law,and have passed from judgment,by his blood.So,as J.B Philips put it,"we keep the law,in it's proper place".The tutor did it's job.

Rom 5;9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God

 

[Frogster]

You might have messed that up a little bit forggy. Grace never took a backseat to the law.

I agree grace never took the backseat.It replaced the law,as a means to live by.

Where ya been guy?

 

[Frogster]

And yet:

Rom 2:2 Now we are aware that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who are committing such things.
Rom 2:3 Yet are you reckoning on this, O man, who art judging those committing such things, and art doing the same, that you will be escaping the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or are you despising the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, being ignorant that the kindness of God is leading you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 Yet, in accord with your hardness and unrepentant heart you are hoarding for yourself indignation in the day of indignation and revelation of the just judgment of God,
Rom 2:6 Who will be paying each one in accord with his acts:
Rom 2:7 to those, indeed, who by endurance in good acts are seeking glory and honor and incorruption, life eonian;
Rom 2:8 yet to those of faction and stubborn, indeed, as to the truth, yet persuaded to injustice, indignation and fury,
Rom 2:9 affliction and distress, on every human soul which is effecting evil, both of the Jew first and of the Greek,
Rom 2:10 yet glory and honor and peace to every worker of good, both to the Jew first, and to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God,
Rom 2:12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.
Rom 2:13 For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them,
Rom 2:16 in the day when God will be judging the hidden things of humanity, according to my evangel, through Jesus Christ.

One more thing (yabster).

Dont u think 2-13.was Paul showing the hypocrisy of those who thought they were just,but were not? As per 2:17 onward shows hypocrisiy.

He clearly knew,we are not justified by law,

 

[Stryder06]

I agree grace never took the backseat.It replaced the law,as a means to live by.

Where ya been guy?

I've been keeping my distance for the sake of my blood pressure

Anywho, to say grace took over doesn't make sense. Why wait so long? Grace was at work in Eden, with Noah, during the time of Abraham, through the age of the kings the prophets.

 

[bugkiller]

I've been keeping my distance for the sake of my blood pressure

Anywho, to say grace took over doesn't make sense. Why wait so long? Grace was at work in Eden, with Noah, during the time of Abraham, through the age of the kings the prophets.

Sorry for raising your blood pressure. Have you been reading and thinking? I do notice you seem to have changed some? Anyway welcome back to GT.

bugkiller

 

[Stryder06]

Sorry for raising your blood pressure. Have you been reading and thinking? I do notice you seem to have changed some? Anyway welcome back to GT.

bugkiller

I'm always reading and thinking brother, and I haven't been gone from GT I've just avoided the sabbath discussions as from what I can tell, the theme of "My verse trumps yours" is alive and well.

 

[Yab Yum]

Good morning.
Well yes,,but those 3 chapters,all culminate to show that we need to come to Christ,then we are forgivem,then we are not under the principle of law,and have passed from judgment,by his blood.So,as J.B Philips put it,"we keep the law,in it's proper place".The tutor did it's job.

Rom 5;9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God

I don't know Froggy - these verses seem pretty categorical and black and white regardless of which chapter of Romans they appear.

Rom 2:12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.
Rom 2:13 For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

 

[Yab Yum]

Rom 2:6 Who will be paying each one in accord with his acts:
Rom 2:7 to those, indeed, who by endurance in good acts are seeking glory and honor and incorruption, life eonian;
Rom 2:8 yet to those of faction and stubborn, indeed, as to the truth, yet persuaded to injustice, indignation and fury,
Rom 2:9 affliction and distress, on every human soul which is effecting evil, both of the Jew first and of the Greek,
Rom 2:10 yet glory and honor and peace to every worker of good, both to the Jew first, and to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God,

Plus 6-11 appears to support judgment according to works. Now if you are a grace person this is not necessarily troublesome.

ESV Study bible footnote: Paul establishes the principle that judgment is according to . . . works. The structure of the passage is clear. Verse 6 enunciates the principle. Verses 7–10 work it out more specifically with an ABBA pattern (a chiasm). Verse 11 then explains why God judges according to works (because he is impartial). When Paul speaks of those who are rewarded for doing good works (vv. 7, 10), is he speaking hypothetically or of real obedience? The hypothetical view fits with the theme of the section as a whole (1:18–3:20), where all are condemned for sin, and righteousness does not come by works of law. It seems more likely, however, that Paul is speaking here of real obedience that is rewarded on the last day—such obedience being the result of the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, as Paul explains at the conclusion of the chapter (2:26–29). Impartiality in judgment (v. 11) is a regular requirement in the OT (see Deut. 1:17; 16:18–20), reflecting the righteousness of God's judgment (Deut. 10:17).

Rom 2:26 If the Uncircumcision, then, should be maintaining the just requirements of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And the Uncircumcision who, by nature, are discharging the law’s demands, shall be judging you, who through letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of law.
Rom 2:28 For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision;
Rom 2:29 but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God.

 

[Tangible]

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Only Jesus Christ was able to keep the law. Because of HIS righteousness before the law we are saved by grace through faith.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Romans1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”