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Featured The Temple Recommend October 2019 focus is ...

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by twin.spin, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    ... really nothing new.
    the commitment to follow Him and keep His commandments must come from you.
    That is your sole burden,
    " ~ President Dieter F. Uchtdorf
    (Ensign, November 2017, p. 24)​
    1_9JoOfMcpLY1M6TpfbUauug.gif



    1. Do you have faith …
    2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement ...
    3. Do you have a testimony of the Restoration ...

    4A. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
    4B. Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
    4C. Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?

    5A. .... Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior?

    5B. Do you obey the law of chastity?

    6. Do you follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ in your private and public behavior with members of your family and others?

    7. Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
    8. Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
    9. Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?
    10. Are you a full-tithe payer?
    11. Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?

    12A. Do you have any financial or other obligations to a former spouse or to children?
    12B. If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

    13. Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?


    14. Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved with priesthood authorities as part of your repentance?


    15. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s house and participate in temple ordinances?
    _____________________________________________

    The alternative is Biblical Christianity which declares that Jesus’ main teaching was that he came to do everything for our salvation.
     
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  2. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    So Jesus does everything, and we just sit there on the couch and enjoy the ride into heaven. What a deal. No wonder you thank Jesus so profusely.

    We thank Jesus too, but we thank Jesus for the opportunity.
     
  3. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

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    What % obedience will impress God enough to get you to Heaven?

    Answer = ????? %
     
  4. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    According to the first and great commandment 100% would be great. I believe that is what Jesus gave. He said:
    (New Testament | Matthew 16:24 - 27)

    24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
    25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
    (New Testament | John 5:36)

    36 ¶ But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
    (New Testament | John 10:36 - 38)

    36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
    37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
    38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
    (New Testament | John 14:11 - 15)

    11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
    12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
    13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
    14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
    15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    That being said all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefore we will have to rely on the atonement. Is the atonement a free for all? What is the means of attaining eternal life?

    (New Testament | Matthew 19:17)

    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Jesus makes us new creatures. He said "If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15). It doesn't earn us salvation. We love Him, because He first loved us!
     
  6. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    As Jesus said, eternal life comes to those who keep the commandments:

    (New Testament | Matthew 19:17)

    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
     
  7. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    The Temple Recommend spells out exactly what people in Mormonism face. It is truly an impossible mission and be prepared for a tragic ending.

    [​IMG]
    To ‘try’ is weak. To ‘do the best I can’ is not strong. We must always do better than we can
    ~ Spencer Kimball

    the commitment to follow Him and keep His commandments must come from you.
    That is your sole burden,
    " ~ President Dieter F. Uchtdorf
    (Ensign, November 2017, p. 24)

    Biblical Christianity teaches that God revealed differently. He revealed that Jesus gives you the credit for all he did.
    “Through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous”
    Romans_5:19.

    For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
    Hebrews_10:14​

    That's why we thank Jesus so profusely.
     
  8. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    What do the LDS actually teach on Soteriology?
     
  9. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Because the Savior hadn't yet paid for their sins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  10. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    This is part of what they are told to do for eternal life:

    The Savior’s blood, His atonement, will save us, but only after we have done all we can to save ourselves by keeping His commandments. All of the principles of the gospel are principles of promise by which the plans of the Almighty are unfolded to us.8
    Each must do all he can to save himself from sin; then he may lay claim to the blessings of redemption by the Holy One of Israel, that all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

    8. Stand Ye in Holy Places (1974), 246.
    - The late Harold B. Lee, Mormon prophet
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...pdf/language-materials/35892_eng.pdf?lang=eng

    Eternal life is for those who earn godhood; they will be equal wiith their god the father.

    Requirements for Exaltation(eternal life)
    The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32–34).

    President Joseph Fielding Smith “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us all the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

    To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.

    He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

    . 1.
    We must be baptized.
    . 2.
    We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    . 3.
    Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
    . 4.
    We must receive the temple endowment.
    . 5.
    We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

    In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
    . 1. Love God and our neighbors.
    . 2. Keep the commandments.
    . 3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
    . 4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
    . 5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
    . 6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
    . 7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
    . 8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
    9. Study the scriptures
    10. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

    Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
    Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 1979, and 1981, Chapter 47, Exaltation, p. 291-292
    Chapter 47: Exaltation

    But that's not all. You should accept all "callings" from the Bishop.

    There are callings to teach or lead music, play piano or organ each Sunday, women do visiting teaching to other female members, men visit the families assigned to them. Some commandmebts aren't listed here. Each member needs to obey the Word of Wisdom. Members are asked to give "talks" on an assigned topic, men may be called to be a ward clerk, or serve as a counselor to the bishop (there are always two counselors).
    That is a partial list of what is not mentioned in the manual.

    If you want God to bless you, He will only do so if you obeyed the the law upon which the blessing was predicated.

    "Actually, we do not have to do what the Lord commands us, but we cannot obtain the rewards and blessings he has promised unless we do.

    “ 'For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.' (D&C 132:5.)"
    ElRay L. Christiansen, General Conference, October 1972
    We Have Made Covenants with the Lord

    There are a lot of covenants a Mormon makes in the temple, but I'm tired of typing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  11. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    Your post hopefully will make people who read it have concern and empathy for Mormons.

    There are so many Mormons who are desperately seeking the biblical teaching that Jesus has already done everything for our salvation. Mormon doctrine repeatedly burdens people because Mormonism doesn’t take the pressure off them. Instead, as your post shows in various ways, it relentlessly keeps the pressure on.
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    So you believe He changed His position after He died?:

    (New Testament | Matthew 16:24 - 27)

    24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
    25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
     
  13. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

    13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
     
  14. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Ok. So, it's faith, and then our faith to be saving must produce works.

    That's not super different, I think, from what some Protestants believe. I've heard some argue "we are saved by faith alone, but true saving faith produces good works".
     
  15. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Now this is a malicious monsterous bunch of garbage:

    Do you have faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior?
    Do you have a testimony of the atonement of Jesus Christ?
    Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thought and your actions.
    Do you obey the law of chastity.
    Do you follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ in you private and public behavior with member of your family and others?
    Do you strive to keep the Sabbath (the Lords day) holy, both at home and at church. Do you attend your meetings, and prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament of the Lords supper. Do you live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
    Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?
    Are you a full tithe payer?
    Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom (don't get drunk and take drugs)
    Do you have any financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children that you are not taking care of?
    Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment.
    Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved?
    Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

    I tell you, these certainly do not seem like monsterous, malicious burdens that a Christian aught to shun away from. Like being honest, chaste, pay your tithing, keep the Lord's day holy, wow, if you have problems with these kinds of good works, you are in the wrong religion.





     
  16. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, in fact the faith-produced good works is a sign that you are saved. And you are not living a fake faith and a fake saved.
     
  17. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    Speaking of some of the burdens placed upon Mormons … there are at least:
    • The Temple Recommend
    • Requirements for Exaltation (eternal life)
    • Working the Mormon "plan of salvation"
    • Accept all "callings" from the Bishop
    [​IMG]


    Most know full well the vitriol Mormonism has towards Biblical Christianity when God revealed:
    Galatians 3:11
    "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." KJV

    when LDS prophet Spencer Kimball stated:
    “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation” ~ Book of Mormon Student Manual, p. 36
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  18. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who reads ALL of the Bible knows what it takes to be saved:

    (New Testament | James 2:14 - 26)

    14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    "It’s not enough to believe that there was a man named Jesus, who was God’s Son and He wants to save you. But if you believe in Jesus, the real Jesus, as He’s written about in the Bible, then you have to believe in everything He’s said and done as well.

    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

    You can see how people might get confused. At first it seems to be that simply believing in Jesus is enough to get eternal life, but in Corinthians we read that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    But if you really believe in Jesus, and every single thing that is written about Him, then you wouldn’t be unrighteous. Then you would do everything to keep from sinning."

    From: 5 things almost nobody realizes are NOT in the Bible
     
  19. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    As always, the correct context makes the difference.

    1) James is not talking about how God recognizes who believes and who doesn’t, but how we recognize faith each other. It’s talking about how we show, or make apparent, our faith to other people. Faith makes itself visible through signs of life, through works for the purpose to glorify Heavenly Father … nothing else.

    "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" ~ Jesus

    ______________________________________________________________

    2) Mormonism rejects the Biblical Jesus, for he specifically answered this question concerning works that God requires in the singular ... faith alone: John 6:27-29

    "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
    _____________________________________________________________

    3) The bottom line is that James agrees with the rest of the Bible. God declares us righteous or justifies us, on the basis of faith alone. Faith alone saves but faith is never alone. It always bears fruit \ has a shinning light that glorifies God.

    That is the testimony of Paul, James, John, and all the biblical writers.
     
  20. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You wrote:
    "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."


    So do you believe all of Christ's words? Jesus said:

    (New Testament | John 14:12)

    12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

    The Bible also states how people deny God:
    (New Testament | Titus 1:16)

    16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

    How do we know God then? By keeping the commandments:

    (New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Why is it important to know God?:

    (New Testament | John 17:3)

    3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
     
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