The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

[yeshuasavedme]

....For a second thing, the firmament was broken in the flood, which caused massive amounts of rain, and an extinction level event wherein all but a single family and the animals on the ark were destroyed.

The firmament is no longer with us

Wow!
-Where to start???
Genesis 1:6
God said [let be] firmament midst/middle [of] waters [let it] divide/separate
mayim [from] mayim.


7,8 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called/named the firmament/ expanse Heaven/sha mayim.
And the evening and the morning were the second day.


The firmament is named the heavens, the heavens are the firmament. the heavens are the expanse stretched out from earth on day 2 between the divided in two waters of this globe's creation.

The face of the firmament is the atmosphere:
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open/face firmament H7549 of heaven.

The heavens as the stretched out expanse in layers/stories are still there.
Psa 19:1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament H7549 sheweth his handywork.


The firmament is His "power/powers/heaven/heavens.
Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament H7549 of his power.

They that be wise shall shine as the firmament forever and forever. The firmament still shines:
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; H7549 and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

The waters of this creation are still above the stretched out expanse/heavens

Psa 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

and FYI: the waters above the heavens are where the "electric" stars/constellations of light are, and is where they run their courses [wandering stars/planets are not the stars of light].
Stars are the treasuries of and the source of the hail stones, the floods, and the atmospheric rivers that come out of heaven and carry more water to water the earth than the Amazon.

Jdg 5:20,21 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down strength.

Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

God has reserved lots of "frozen" water in heaven, which He uses for judgment on nations and men -and esp when He fights for and with Israel by His ministering angels:

11 And it happened, as they fled before Israel and were on the descent of Beth Horon, that the Lord cast down large hailstones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died. There were more who died from the hailstones than the children of Israel killed with the sword.

7 So Joshua ascended from Gilgal, he and all the people of war with him, and all the mighty men of valor. 8 And the Lord said to Joshua, “Do not fear them, for I have delivered them into your hand; not a man of them shall stand before you.” 9 Joshua therefore came upon them suddenly, having marched all night from Gilgal. 10 So the Lord routed them before Israel, killed them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, chased them along the road that goes to Beth Horon, and struck them down as far as Azekah and Makkedah.



11 And it happened, as they fled before Israel and were on the descent of Beth Horon, that the Lord cast down large hailstones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died. There were more who died from the hailstones than the children of Israel killed with the sword.
12 Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:
“Sun, stand still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
And the moon stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.

12 “Have you commanded the morning since your days began,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It takes on form like clay under a seal,
And stands out like a garment.
15 From the wicked their light is withheld,
And the upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you?
Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.

19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?
And darkness, where is its place,
20 That you may take it to its territory,
That you may know the paths to its home?
21 Do you know it, because you were born then,
Or because the number of your days is great?

22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,
23 Which I have reserved for the time of trouble,
For the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is light diffused,
Or the east wind scattered over the earth?

25 “Who has divided a channel for the overflowing water,
Or a path for the thunderbolt,
26 To cause it to rain on a land where there is no one,
A wilderness in which there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate waste,
And cause to spring forth the growth of tender grass?
28 Has the rain a father?
Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth?
30 The waters harden like stone,
And the surface of the deep is frozen.

31 “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades,
Or loose the belt of Orion?
32 Can you bring out Mazzaroth[a] in its season?
Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you set their dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
That an abundance of water may cover you?
35 Can you send out lightnings, that they may go,
And say to you, ‘Here we are!’?
36 Who has put wisdom in the mind?[b]
Or who has given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust hardens in clumps,
And the clods cling together?

39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they crouch in their dens,
Or lurk in their lairs to lie in wait?
41 Who provides food for the raven,
When its young ones cry to God,
And wander about for lack of food?

Astronomers who do not know the word think stars with ice are "old", but not so: Genesis 1 shows the creation of the heavens and the earth of one piece, and the heavens were not "furbished" until they were stretched out between the divided in two waters of this globe on day 2: their origin is earth, and they will fall to earth when they fall from heaven.

 

[The Outlier]

This post only had like 2 pages yesterday. My that escalated quickly. I should start a thread about how the earth is flat- nothing like controversy to bring people together! ;-)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

This post only had like 2 pages yesterday. My that escalated quickly. I should start a thread about how the earth is flat- nothing like controversy to bring people together! ;-)

I think you mean "this thread"...but yesterday this thread had 41 pages, not 4.
The Hebrew word "tebel" translated "world" in English, means "globe"....so you lose before you start that one. The Hebrew bet-lamed B-L elements used for tebel mean "to swell", and we get words like " ball, balloon, bulb, belly, bellicose....and so on, from those Hebrew elements: all words are scientifically formed from the combining of the elements [aleph-bet] of the mother tongue given to our first father at creation, and which one mother tongue was confounded at Bab-el; but the true meanings of the Edenic/Hebrew letters/etymons [etymon is from the Hebrew word emet/truth] do not change in the confounded languages.
The world is a globe, says the Hebrew, and the word cannot lie.

 

[sculleywr]

Wow!
-Where to start???
Genesis 1:6
God said [let be] firmament midst/middle [of] waters [let it] divide/separate
mayim [from] mayim.


7,8 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called/named the firmament/ expanse Heaven/sha mayim.
And the evening and the morning were the second day.


The firmament is named the heavens, the heavens are the firmament. the heavens are the expanse stretched out from earth on day 2 between the divided in two waters of this globe's creation.

The face of the firmament is the atmosphere:
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open/face firmament H7549 of heaven.

The heavens as the stretched out expanse in layers/stories are still there.
Psa 19:1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament H7549 sheweth his handywork.


The firmament is His "power/powers/heaven/heavens.
Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament H7549 of his power.

They that be wise shall shine as the firmament forever and forever. The firmament still shines:
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; H7549 and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

The waters of this creation are still above the stretched out expanse/heavens

Psa 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

and FYI: the waters above the heavens are where the "electric" stars/constellations of light are, and is where they run their courses [wandering stars/planets are not the stars of light].
Stars are the treasuries of and the source of the hail stones, the floods, and the atmospheric rivers that come out of heaven and carry more water to water the earth than the Amazon.

Jdg 5:20,21 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down strength.

Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

God has reserved lots of "frozen" water in heaven, which He uses for judgment on nations and men -and esp when He fights for and with Israel by His ministering angels:

11 And it happened, as they fled before Israel and were on the descent of Beth Horon, that the Lord cast down large hailstones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died. There were more who died from the hailstones than the children of Israel killed with the sword.





Astronomers who do not know the word think stars with ice are "old", but not so: Genesis 1 shows the creation of the heavens and the earth of one piece, and the heavens were not "furbished" until they were stretched out between the divided in two waters of this globe on day 2: their origin is earth, and they will fall to earth when they fall from heaven.

We know the sun is in the center of the solar system. IT is epistemological knowledge that is as certain as 2+2=4.

You have to prove your interpretation. It is not the plain reading of Scripture. IT is a convoluted and complicated and esoteric mass of jumbled up confusion that makes trash bags full of tangled christmas lights seem drop dead simple.

 

[sculleywr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlATt3ccllI

 

[sculleywr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1PUjrcNCDw

quite frankly scarlet

 

[The Outlier]

I think you mean "this thread"...but yesterday this thread had 41 pages, not 4.
The Hebrew word "tebel" translated "world" in English, means "globe"....so you lose before you start that one. The Hebrew bet-lamed B-L elements used for tebel mean "to swell", and we get words like " ball, balloon, bulb, belly, bellicose....and so on, from those Hebrew elements: all words are scientifically formed from the combining of the elements [aleph-bet] of the mother tongue given to our first father at creation, and which one mother tongue was confounded at Bab-el; but the true meanings of the Edenic/Hebrew letters/etymons [etymon is from the Hebrew word emet/truth] do not change in the confounded languages.
The world is a globe, says the Hebrew, and the word cannot lie.

It was a joke. I don't believe the world is flat. You are right though, it was 41 pages. Now its 47. I got it mixed up with another thread.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

We know the sun is in the center of the solar system.

Scriptures proving your false beliefs as fact have not been forthcoming from you.
In fact, you have no Scripture proof to offer, and you prove the OP [in not having any Scripture proof for your belief] in that "Scripture cannot lie", and the Scripture indeed shows us in Genesis 1 that the earth is the center of the universe which did not even exist as a stretched out expanse from the earth until day 2 of creation week, when the "great expanse" was stretched out between the cut in two halves of the waters of this created globe, and named "two waters" -heavens.

 

[pgp_protector]

 

[sculleywr]

Scriptures proving your false beliefs as fact have not been forthcoming from you.
In fact, you have no Scripture proof to offer, and you prove the OP [in not having any Scripture proof for your belief] in that "Scripture cannot lie", and the Scripture indeed shows us in Genesis 1 that the earth is the center of the universe which did not even exist as a stretched out expanse from the earth until day 2 of creation week, when the "great expanse" was stretched out between the cut in two halves of the waters of this created globe, and named "two waters" -heavens.

Those are interpretations of Scripture, not Scripture itself. Scripture does not disprove me. You just don't ACCEPT the truth.

Ironically, Scripture exists without your personal interpretation and has for thousands of years

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Those are interpretations of Scripture, not Scripture itself. Scripture does not disprove me. You just don't ACCEPT the truth.

Ironically, Scripture exists without your personal interpretation and has for thousands of years

Again, proving my point: you offer no Scripture for your belief system, and ignore the Scripture that actually is used by me to refute you.
I cannot cure your blindness, but I do point it out for the sake of others who might "prove all things" for themselves, without accepting a false non-Scriptural belief system that actually is based on the unproved theories of pagans and occultists -and that is a fact well proven!

 

[sculleywr]

Again, proving my point: you offer no Scripture for your belief system, and ignore the Scripture that actually is used by me to refute you.
I cannot cure your blindness, but I do point it out for the sake of others who might "prove all things" for themselves, without accepting a false non-Scriptural belief system that actually is based on the unproved theories of pagans and occultists -and that is a fact well proven!

Because Scripture doesn't speak to every little thing in the world. It says dreadfully little about Rock n Roll. I have yet to see Scripture describe the nature of the nucleus of an atom.

considering that Geocentrism was founded by the freaking Babylonians, I find your statement hilarious about pagans.

1. We can go out and see the earth orbit the sun, and we have.
2. We can look at the sun and make accurate measurements thereof, and we have.
3. We can send things into orbit of the sun, and we have.
4. We can send things to Mars based on a heliocentric model, and we have.

You have no evidence other than

your personal interpretation of Scripture

Between evidence for my interpretation of Scripture, and your lack of evidence for yours, I'll choose mine.

 

[ChetSinger]

Scriptures proving your false beliefs as fact have not been forthcoming from you.
In fact, you have no Scripture proof to offer, and you prove the OP [in not having any Scripture proof for your belief] in that "Scripture cannot lie", and the Scripture indeed shows us in Genesis 1 that the earth is the center of the universe which did not even exist as a stretched out expanse from the earth until day 2 of creation week, when the "great expanse" was stretched out between the cut in two halves of the waters of this created globe, and named "two waters" -heavens.

There is a YEC physicist named Russell Humphreys who has developed a quite literal Biblical cosmology based on GR (general relativity). He covers everything: the dividing of the waters, the stretching out of the expanse, and even an actual 6-day clock (on earth, at least).

Yet even so, he's fine with the earth going around the sun, and with the galaxies being old and far away (how could he not be, he worked a gig at Los Alamos for years). GR lets him run 6 days on earth while billions of years pass elsewhere. Physicist John Hartnett has another literalist cosmology that's different, but in the same ballpark. I don't think you have to give up operational science to believe a literal Biblical account of Genesis, even if you're a YEC. I don't.

But I think insisting that the Bible demands a Ptolemaic solar model (and that's what you're doing) is just stubborn, given that we've been successfully relying on the Copernican model when launching our satellites.

Personally, I wonder if you're stuck on it because the book of Enoch demands it.

 

[JacobLaw]

There is a YEC physicist named Russell Humphreys who has developed a quite literal Biblical cosmology based on GR (general relativity). He covers everything: the dividing of the waters, the stretching out of the expanse, and even an actual 6-day clock (on earth, at least).

Yet even so, he's fine with the earth going around the sun, and with the galaxies being old and far away (how could he not be, he worked a gig at Los Alamos for years). GR lets him run 6 days on earth while billions of years pass elsewhere. Physicist John Hartnett has another literalist cosmology that's different, but in the same ballpark. I don't think you have to give up operational science to believe a literal Biblical account of Genesis, even if you're a YEC. I don't.

But I think insisting that the Bible demands a Ptolemaic solar model (and that's what you're doing) is just stubborn, given that we've been successfully relying on the Copernican model when launching our satellites.

Personally, I wonder if you're stuck on it because the book of Enoch demands it.

I guess you can pretend that someone has coordinated the axiomatic biblical geocentric position to fit some clearly unbiblical position designed to fit some worldly heliocentric position of the what Christians have forever rejected until this conspiracy was formatted to discredit the bible. This false doctrine accepted by so many christian today has created a debate that requires one to accept either the clear biblical geocentric position or the worldly science falsely called position, were that takes us is yet to be understood by most.

And really YSM doesn't need the book of Enoch to defend the bibles undisputable geocentric position.

 

[Gnarwhal]

God is giving himself the mother of all face palms right now watching people defend geocentrism.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[Jipsah]

Again, proving my point: you offer no Scripture for your belief system

Nor you yours. You simply repeat your silly belief in your own personal take om what Scripture means, while ignoring the undeniable testimony of God's design displayed.

In short, you want us to believe what you think about what men wrote, and ignore the very works of God themselves. Fat chance.

Add to that your insistence on believing the utterly nonsensical ravings of the writer of "Enoch" is even more ludicrous. The sun coming and going through spatial "doors" of some sort, the sun itself made of diamonds, and similar rubbish. maybe the stuff of light entertainment if taken as fiction, but zero credibility. If there was any doubt left as to whether "Enoch" was a monumental crock, the gibberish about the sun should remove it beyond recovery.

, and ignore the Scripture

You mean the bits where you can't seem to tell figures of speech like personification and euphemism from technical data.

that actually is used by me to refute you.

Sorry, but nothing can refute the evidence that God Himself has displayed in the skies.

I cannot cure your blindness

I'm sure the offer is appreciated, but you probably need to get that saw-log out of your own eye first.

 

[Jipsah]

Those are interpretations of Scripture, not Scripture itself.

Ah, Joey me boy, don't they teach y'all anything down there in Hamilton County? Everybody Knows that their interpretation of Scripture is in fact what Scripture means. Don't let yourself get tangled up in what the words of Scripture say. Just let me (or YSM) tell you what they really mean. You'd be simply amazed at how poorly the translators of the Bible said things sometimes. It's up to us to divine the pure teaching of Scripture, and, once we've found it, to pass it along to the less fortunate so they can share in our enlightenment.

There, that oughtta square you away!

I'm gonna go read where the Bible talks about aliens and flying saucers now. That's so cool....

Kyrie eleison

 

[Gnarwhal]

Ah, Joey me boy, don't they teach y'all anything down there in Hamilton County? Everybody Knows that their interpretation of Scripture is in fact what Scripture means. Don't let yourself get tangled up in what the words of Scripture say. Just let me (or YSM) tell you what they really mean. You'd be simply amazed at how poorly the translators of the Bible said things sometimes. It's up to us to divine the pure teaching of Scripture, and, once we've found it, to pass it along to the less fortunate so they can share in our enlightenment.

There, that oughtta square you away!

I'm gonna go read where the Bible talks about aliens and flying saucers now. That's so cool....

Kyrie eleison

If we lived in a world where YSM's outrageously ludicrous interpretation of scripture, is what scripture "actually says" then pigs would fly, my derriere would produce cotton candy and The Phantom Menace would be a timeless classic.

 

[Keachian]

If we lived in a world where YSM's outrageously ludicrous interpretation of scripture, is what scripture "actually says" then pigs would fly, my derriere would produce cotton candy and The Phantom Menace would be a timeless classic.

Step 1, take the Bible
Step 2, take all the 2nd Temple Pseudipigraphia that claims to be what was being used by the authors of Scripture
Step 3, take all the medieval pseudipigraphia that claims to be what was being used by the authors of Scripture
Step 4, apply a hermeneutic which places the documents from steps 2 and 3 in priority over the Bible
Step 5, make sure its a really literal hermeneutic
???
Prophet!

 

[Gnarwhal]

Step 1, take the Bible
Step 2, take all the 2nd Temple Pseudipigraphia that claims to be what was being used by the authors of Scripture
Step 3, take all the medieval pseudipigraphia that claims to be what was being used by the authors of Scripture
Step 4, apply a hermeneutic which places the documents from steps 2 and 3 in priority over the Bible
Step 5, make sure its a really literal hermeneutic
???
Prophet!

I see what you did there...