The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

[ChetSinger]

IMO you just picked one with God...

I don't think so. I propose you're being unnecessarily rigid in your interpretation of scripture.

And here's one reason I have that opinion: if our planetary mechanics are so incorrect, why do our Venus-bound and Mars-bound probes arrive at their destinations?

 

[The Outlier]

I don't think so. I propose you're being unnecessarily rigid in your interpretation of scripture.

And here's one reason I have that opinion: if our planetary mechanics are so incorrect, why do our Venus-bound and Mars-bound probes arrive at their destinations?

^He has a point. The average person with a telescope can test this. This isn't some scientific secret locked inside the annals of a government research lab.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Not sure what to make of your post. I'm agreeing with the Bible. Are you agreeing with the Bible? That passage about the sun standing still is in Joshua, not Genesis. So what does this passage have to do with the creation account? Are you saying you don't agree with astonomy? I'm saying that astronomy and the Bible do not contradict in this instance. You might want to read my post again.

You said:

Originally Posted by The Outlier

Depending on what your reference point is, it does. Astronomy says the earth rotates around the center of gravity of the solar system. normally that is the centroid of the sun, but not always. The Bible says the sun stood still in the sky. The sky was the reference point. Nothing in there says that the earth does not rotate around the sun.
​

Your quote does not agree with the Bible. Your astronomy is not true. You did not get that from the Bible, which does refute it. there are men of faith and belief who do study cosmology and who do agree with the Bible, however, but those you are following are men of unbelief who make God a liar, though He told us exactly that earth was created of a piece with the powers that are now the stretched out heavens and the heavens came right from here on this earth when it was still just a globe of water, and they were stretched out between the divided in two waters of this globe's waters.

The heavens, then, are the "breadth of the earth" =that broad expanse stretched out/beat out which no man can measure, in which stretched out expanse God has His Mount Eden, where Paradise is, in the third heaven.
See? -The Word of God is not compatible with false science which claims that fables made up by men of unbelief who were into paganism and the occult really know better than God on how He ordered and runs His creation, and what His purpose is for it.

Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

And the sun and the moon stood still for a whole another evening and day long after the sun was ready to descend/go down in its circuit around the earth in the circle of the earth.
That is indeed in Joshua, and in the history Book of Jasher.
The sun stood still, and the moon. The earth did not stand still for Joshua nor did the earth go backwards for Isaiah, when Hezekiah chose the shadow on the sundial to go backwards ten degrees/steps.

So the sun went backwards, once, and the sun and moon stood still, in those passages; but the earth was fixed in it's place and never moved at all.
Scripture does not lie, and His Word is true from the beginning.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I don't think so. I propose you're being unnecessarily rigid in your interpretation of scripture.

And here's one reason I have that opinion: if our planetary mechanics are so incorrect, why do our Venus-bound and Mars-bound probes arrive at their destinations?

They are sent out using Geo-centric co-ordinates, but they could have any point of reference, but the Bible has only one center of the creation, and that is this earth.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I'm sorry, but he has no credibility with me. Special and General Relativity are among the most well-demonstrated theories in physics. If you think they represent any theological difficulty for Christians, I suggest reading up on Dr. John Hartnett, a Christian physicist who makes his living by, in part, designing relativistic clocks.

I am sorry for you believing that lie, there is much proof that it is a lie and it is not believed by so many true men of science -esp those who seek truth.
Relativity Fraud - YouTube

 

[ChetSinger]

They are sent out using Geo-centric co-ordinates, but they could have any point of reference...

I concur with that. I have no doubt that NASA uses the launch pad as the initial point of reference; it only makes sense.

In itself, the fact that NASA uses geocentric coordinates at launch means nothing. After all, my whole point is that any location can be used as a reference frame.

But, are you claiming anything more than that? For example, if Venus revolves around the earth, the flight path from here to there will be very different than if both Venus and the Earth revolve around the sun. Do you have any evidence that NASA programs their flight paths based on Venus orbiting the earth?

 

[ChetSinger]

I am sorry for you believing that lie...

Don't be sorry for me; if we keep the faith we'll both share in the resurrection, which is our hope. This particular issue is not a matter of salvation or sanctification.

 

[The Outlier]

You said:Your quote does not agree with the Bible. Your astronomy is not true. You did not get that from the Bible, which does refute it. there are men of faith and belief who do study cosmology and who do agree with the Bible, however, but those you are following are men of unbelief who make God a liar, though He told us exactly that earth was created of a piece with the powers that are now the stretched out heavens and the heavens came right from here on this earth when it was still just a globe of water, and they were stretched out between the divided in two waters of this globe's waters.

The heavens, then, are the "breadth of the earth" =that broad expanse stretched out/beat out which no man can measure, in which stretched out expanse God has His Mount Eden, where Paradise is, in the third heaven.
See? -The Word of God is not compatible with false science which claims that fables made up by men of unbelief who were into paganism and the occult really know better than God on how He ordered and runs His creation, and what His purpose is for it.

Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

And the sun and the moon stood still for a whole another evening and day long after the sun was ready to descend/go down in its circuit around the earth in the circle of the earth.
That is indeed in Joshua, and in the history Book of Jasher.
The sun stood still, and the moon. The earth did not stand still for Joshua nor did the earth go backwards for Isaiah, when Hezekiah chose the shadow on the sundial to go backwards ten degrees/steps.

So the sun went backwards, once, and the sun and moon stood still, in those passages; but the earth was fixed in it's place and never moved at all.
Scripture does not lie, and His Word is true from the beginning.

You're still not getting it. I'm assuming the Bible is correct and that astronomy does not refute it. Yes, I'm saying that I believe the Bible is 100% correct. You are entitled too your own opinion; not your own facts. None of the scriptures you mentioned say that the Sun rotates around the earth. Anyways like my other post says- even in science there is no center of the universe. The Bible does not say that God is the physical center of the universe. It says He created it and that he holds it in balance.

 

[ChetSinger]

I am sorry for you believing that lie, there is much proof that it is a lie and it is not believed by so many true men of science -esp those who seek truth.

I hope you're not saying that Dr. John Hartnett, who I mentioned in my post, is not a "true man of science" or not "seeking truth". The man is a courageous Christian who also happens to design relativistic clocks for a living.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I hope you're not saying that Dr. John Hartnett, who I mentioned in my post, is not a "true man of science" or not "seeking truth". The man is a courageous Christian who also happens to design relativistic clocks for a living.

I do not know your man, but does he say what God says?
Does he just regurgitate the fables invented by pagans and occultists, instead of the Scripture Truth of God's cosmology?
Scripture cannot lie, and Scripture says the sun goes around the earth in its peculiar orbit.

One Believing Christian man's journey, shared, on the matter:
http://www.creationcalendar.com/files/Geocentricity.pdf
Quote:
“The world has just as many myths today as it had 3000 years ago. Can we help if the humanists and
Bible critics have swallowed every myth we have today [as truth] while rejecting the Truth as myth?
Having said that, we need to prove our point for we are, after all, challenging the established
[heliocentricity based] belief system.” Geocentrist astronomer, Gerardus D. Bouw, Ph.D., “Draco the
Dragon”, The Biblical Astronomer, Vol. 12, #100, Spring, 2002.
...

Dr. Bouw again: “Again, once more for the record: it has been shown at least six different ways this
century alone that the equations and physics used by NASA to launch satellites are identical to the
equations derived from a geocentric universe. Thus, if the space program is proof of anything, it
proves geocentricity and disproves heliocentricity.” “News Extracts”, Bulletin of Tychonian Society,
Spring, 1990, #53, p. 28

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You're still not getting it. I'm assuming the Bible is correct and that astronomy does not refute it. Yes, I'm saying that I believe the Bible is 100% correct. You are entitled too your own opinion; not your own facts. None of the scriptures you mentioned say that the Sun rotates around the earth. Anyways like my other post says- even in science there is no center of the universe. The Bible does not say that God is the physical center of the universe. It says He created it and that he holds it in balance.

No, God says the earth is His center of His creation.
So if you believe the Word of God is 100% correct, then do you believe it is true in Genesis 1, and that the heavens were not even stretched out from this earth until day 2, and that the stretched out heavens did not even have made for them and set in them until day 4, the sun, moon -and apparently the wandering stars/planets?

Do you believe Genesis is true from the beginning in that the heavens themselves were stretched out from this globe of water of earth's creation between the waters which were divided in two, with the stretched out heavens between them, and that the waters are still above the heavens that were raised above them on day 2 of creation week, before even the sun, moon, and stars were made and set in them?

Is that the truth you accept -or do you believe it is a lie?
Do you believe the Scriptures that teach that Paradise is in the third stretched out heaven, on Mount Eden, which is in that third story of the stretched out heaven?

Do you believe that the light commanded to be brought out of darkness on day 1 circled the earth, and was divided from the darkness which circled the earth, and that a period of the evening and morning/light and day, circling the earth = one/echad day, and that the light of day 1, then, began right here on this earth and was stretched out with the heavens then, on day 2?

 

[The Outlier]

No, God says the earth is His center of His creation.
So if you believe the Word of God is 100% correct, then do you believe it is true in Genesis 1, and that the heavens were not even stretched out from this earth until day 2, and that the stretched out heavens did not even have made for them and set in them until day 4, the sun, moon -and apparently the wandering stars/planets?

Do you believe Genesis is true from the beginning in that the heavens themselves were stretched out from this globe of water of earth's creation between the waters which were divided in two, with the stretched out heavens between them, and that the waters are still above the heavens that were raised above them on day 2 of creation week, before even the sun, moon, and stars were made and set in them?

Is that the truth you accept -or do you believe it is a lie?
Do you believe the Scriptures that teach that Paradise is in the third stretched out heaven, on Mount Eden, which is in that third story of the stretched out heaven?

Do you believe that the light commanded to be brought out of darkness on day 1 circled the earth, and was divided from the darkness which circled the earth, and that a period of the evening and morning/light and day, circling the earth = one/echad day, and that the light of day 1, then, began right here on this earth and was stretched out with the heavens then, on day 2?

You're not going to get off that easy. 1. Where does it say the earth is the center of His universe? The Joshua passage says that the earth was fixed. So at that one time the earth was fixed. That works both ways, and it does not say that the earth was always fixed- at least not in that passage.
2. This is not a truth or lie question. This is a question of what the Bible means. 3. This one question does not determine whether I think the Bible is a lie. You're trying to back me in a corner and it won't work. We are disagreeing on what it means, not what it says.

 

[Skybringr]

I'm disappointed at the bias put forth in this thread.

Do I agree with Geocentrism?
The fact of the matter is that I don't agree or disagree. I do however think people assume to much about scientific findings.
It's all, in truth, arbitrary until one has the conclusive equation of the universe, which has not been found- Einstein's equation only explains gravity, it is not a unified theory by any stretch of a mile.

That means it can potentially be wrong altogether; I believe Stephen Hawking even stated this.

 

[The Outlier]

I'm disappointed at the bias put forth in this thread.

Same here. If anyone disagrees with yeshuasaves me, they are automatically calling God a liar. There is no other possible option.

 

[Jipsah]

The Sun Revolves around the earth: Scripture cannot Lie

The Earth revolves around the sun, and Scripture never says otherwise. Except "Enoch", which is a lie from end to end and not part of Scripture at all.

The fact is that in 417 posts not one single Scripture has been brought forth to rfute the hundreds of Scriptures that show the creation is geo-centric from the beginning.

No need. God has written His Law in plain view in the heavens for all with eyes to see. If you can't see it, well, sorry.

without even a shred of evidence but their own imaginations

Didja know that sailors can determine their position by taking sightings of the moons circling Jupiter? Or do you have some Scripture that denies the existence of Jupiter and its satellites?

Pretty good "fables" there, don't you think?

This is easily the silliest thread ever posted in this forum, and that's saying quite a lot.

 

[Jipsah]

Since she leans so heavily on the Ethiopian Orthodox Church to validate Enoch, why isn't she Ethiopian Orthodox?

'Cause she isn't Orthodox, (or orthodox for that matter).

 

[Jipsah]

I saw the sun rise this morning with my own eyes.

Me too!

, as I watched it from my position on this fixed in it's place earth

There's a big river boat that runs up and down the Cumberland in Nashville. I was aboard her on evening for a dinner meeting. They push her away from the dock on thrusters until she's out in the channel, and then they use the bow and stern thrusters to turn her 180 degrees in her own length. I stood up on the Texas deck and watched as the boat sat motionless and the river banks revolved around us. When the pilot got her in her marks you could hear the paddle wheel begin pounding the water back aft, and the river banks began to glide sedately past us.

Every word the truth there.

God's center of His creation; and I am watching the sun mount up by degrees over the earth ever since I watched it rise.

You need to make that trip on the General Jackson yourself, then. You'll swear that she's the center of creation.

The light of dawn preceeded it, which it governs and ingathers and refracts back out in great power to all creation

That part is simple baloney. The sun doesn't work like that at all, and nothing, NOTHING in Scripture says that it does.

in its circuit traversing the heavens, east to west; and at this spring season, coming back around to keep it's course in the fourth portal of it's magnetic path around the earth in the circle of the heavens, while ruling the dawn as it rises, dispelling the darkness.

Nipping in and out of "doors", dodging this way and swerving that, such wow! Such imagination! Such hogwash! This stuff alone is enough reason to consign "Enoch" to the Fiction section of the library

That is what the Word teaches me

The "word" of whoever wrote "Enoch"? Pretty sorry teacher then, IMO.

 

[Skybringr]

The book of Enoch was the most debated out of all the apocrypha. The Church Fathers were in very much at arms about this- there are many things about that book that demand attention.
In a vote of confidence, the book was left out of the canon by a margin.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You're not going to get off that easy. 1. Where does it say the earth is the center of His universe? The Joshua passage says that the earth was fixed. So at that one time the earth was fixed. That works both ways, and it does not say that the earth was always fixed- at least not in that passage.
2. This is not a truth or lie question. This is a question of what the Bible means. 3. This one question does not determine whether I think the Bible is a lie. You're trying to back me in a corner and it won't work. We are disagreeing on what it means, not what it says.

Genesis 1 is the toledot of the beginnings -the genesis/origin of the heavens and the earth.
Reading Genesis 1 leaves no room for anything other than the facts as the record of the beginnings/the genesis state them; from the POV of God who was there.

The record states that the heavens did not exist outside the earth, separate from the earth, when they were both brought into being on day 1.
Day 1: the heavens and the earth are not yet named, but the heavens are powers and the earth is a globe of water/mayim.
The Holy Spirit brooded over the face of the waters/the deep, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

God said: "Let there be light", and there was light. That is not from man's POV. Adam was not there. God was there, and it is all His POV.

God divided the light from the darkness and the evening and the morning were one/echad day. He named the darkness and the morning "day and night", and the two, making one revolution around the globe of darkness and light, and back to darkness again from the beginning point was named "echad Day"

So the earth was not named yet, and the firmament was not stretched out from the fixed in place earth on day 1, but the light is brought forth and Day is made and named and the day and the night circle the globe which is fixed, and the earth circles nothing.


There were no heavens stretched out at all when light was brought into being. They were not even named, nor was the earth named.

So that is day 1. A fixed earth; no dry brought forth yet; and no heavens stretched out from the earth.

Now on day 2, God split the waters of the globe in two, and raised half of the waters way up, leaving half below, covering the globe, and stretching the powers of the firmament way out between them, and making stories of "heavens" as they were stretched out.

The light had it's birth out of the darkness right here on this globe of water, and the light was stretched out with the heavens.....
God named the stretched out firmament "heavens". He has "stories" of them. The face of the firmament is the atmosphere where the fowl fly, so He said in Genesis 1; and stretched way out, but below the half of the waters of the globe/earth, are the other "stories" of the heavens.

[The third heaven is where Mount Eden is, and Paradise, God's Garden, where the Tree of Life is, is in that third heaven. Adam was taken from the earth below and had daily communion with the Creator in Paradise/third heaven above, but when Adam became defiled, he was cast back down to earth below and the way was barred by cherubim with flaming swords, lest he enter Paradise in the third heaven and eat of the Tree of Life and live forever, in the forever ruined temple of his flesh and then be forever unfit to be remade in regenerated flesh, for the Glory to indwell Him as he was created for, in the beginning...but I digress]

We have only covered to day 2 of what Genesis 1 factually states.
Earth was not stretched out from the waters and named "earth" until day 3, but the "breadth of the outstretched heavens" belong to the earth, and Mount Eden, with Paradise, are in the third layer/story of the stretched out heavens, and the heavens were stretched out from this very earth when it was yet a globe of water with no "dry" brought forth out of the waters.

God did not form/bring forth the "dry" out of the waters until day 3.

Gen 1:9,10 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry/yabbashah [land] appear: and it was so. And God called the dry [land] Earth/Eretz; and the gathering together of the waters/Mayim called he Seas/Yim: and God saw that it was good.


So we see that the facts state the heavens did not exist as stretched out stories [of powers] until the waters of this very created earth were cut in two, and the powers -the heavens- were stretched out from this globe of water itself, and stretched out in a circle around the globe, but always, half the waters of this created earth are above the stretched out heavens.

Those waters above the heavens were created right here on this globe. The only way they got out there above the heavens was on day 2, when the heavens were stretched out between earth's cut in two waters.

That needs no interpretation, but apparently, it does need eye salve for the blind to see what is actually said.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The book of Enoch was the most debated out of all the apocrypha. The Church Fathers were in very much at arms about this- there are many things about that book that demand attention.
In a vote of confidence, the book was left out of the canon by a margin.

It was never left out of the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox nor of the "Scriptures/Writings deemed sacred" of the Essenes who left the Dead Sea Scrolls in the caves to be discovered last century, and so on and so forth....
Enoch is the only human being ever taken on a tour of the entire creation by angels, and the only human being ever to be shown God's celestial calendar and the cosmology of the universe.