-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie
- Thread starter yeshuasavedme
- Start date
ChetSinger
Well-Known Member
I'm done with this, but I suggest you consider there really isn't an argument to be found. The theory of GR, repeatedly verified, indicates that we can choose a reference frame anywhere we want.
Of course the Bible chooses the earth, just as we all do in our daily conversations ("sunrise", "sunset", etc.). Why shouldn't it? But there are other times when we may want to choose the sun. Or the moon.
There's no fight between the Bible and orbital mechanics unless your personal interpretation of scripture demands one. Mine doesn't. So as for me, I'm finished with this thread.
P.S. I'll reconsider my position when some geocentrists, using Ptolemaic or similar maths, manage to send a probe to another planet.
Upvote
0
Thank you.
Why should it not, indeed!
God authored the Word, not men.
God's POV is Geocentric.
Upvote
0
If you would take care to be your own word police on what comes out of your own mouth that is anti-what God's mouth has declared, then you would not look so foolish to those who know and love the Word of God in this matter of His own declaration that the earth was created as the very center of the stretched from it heavens/shamayim -the firmament itself- and stretched out in stories, between earth's divided in two waters.
Upvote
0
The sons of the aliens are talked about in the Bible. Though you meant to mock, the Hebrew states the sons of the aliens [fallen watchers] fear and tremble and come out of their strongholds at the presence of Christ's anointing. Rather than directing you to that, I leave you to actually study for yourself.I'm gonna go read where the Bible talks about aliens and flying saucers now. That's so cool....
Kyrie eleison
And the chariots of YHWH are Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
So what came down at Sinai?
What came down in Ezekiel 1 and 10.
Enjoy your reading!
Upvote
0
God exactly told Moses what to write.
Torah is "Thus saith YHWH".
Also, Enoch is the book that has the science of the movement of the heavenly bodies, revealed, and that has never been changed by God. It is still His order of the movements of the heavens and of the heavenly bodies.
And Jesus was not humoring "dumb" man when He said:
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Nor was his womb brother, James, too stupid to understand the order of the movements of the heavenly bodies -after all, they all had and read Enoch, and knew the order of the movement of the heavenly bodies:
Jas 1:11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
Upvote
0
Tzaousios
Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός
- Dec 4, 2008
- 8,504
- 609
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Kindly point out where the conclusive evidence is that the "chariots" are flying saucers and "sons of fallen watchers" are aliens. Confirmation bias does not count as a valid hermeneutical method.
Upvote
0
topcare
The Eucharist is Life
- Apr 8, 2014
- 3,560
- 1,609
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Enoch is not Scripture and "Thus saith the Lord" does not mean that God wrote it but it was ore of a way of speaking except where explicitly stated. Still God did not directly write the Bible man did through their limited understanding. So when the Ancients say something about science we must remember that they did not have the technology and understanding that we have today.
See the problem is there is no where in Scripture where it says to take it literally that is a tradition of man, instead of doing that silliness we need to read the Scriptures in context of the chapter, verses and what the time period was like and try to understand the spiritual meaning of it.
The Bible was not written to be a science text and to use it as such is disingenuous to the text, instead the Bible is a historical and theological book of the redemption of mankind by God. One must be careful because one can be bogged down with silly ideas and notions when taking Scripture to literal that really have little to do with Scripture at all
Upvote
0
Yes.
God has a plan that is ongoing to build a temple not made with hands for His glory to indwell, and to "Plant the heavens" by it.
Adam fell and got cast down [and we are all Adam, having been created as seed in his loins and passed by the nature /the Adam spirit in the loins of the male Adam so as to come forth in our own season by the Adam spirit obeying the command to "be fruitful and multiply"; and the promise of the restoration of all things was given right then and there, at the fall, and we were all promised that as seed in the loins of our first father, and our redemption had already been prepared for, from before the foundation of the world.
Earth is the center of it all, and His one plan is not stopped nor changed nor does He have "plan B"; and His plan is to unite the human being race with Himself [whosoever will], as Adam was made to be in union with Him in the beginning, and to unite us with the holy angels for His house to be built of living stones....for His glory to indwell and the "heavens be planted" with sons of God who will shine as the stars and as the firmament, forever.
Upvote
0
Scripture rebukes that error.
They wrote what God said to write, not what they had understanding to write. When the Word says "Thus saith YHWH" -as the Torah and the prophets do- it is exactly "Thus saith YHWH".
And you are a devolved human being living in a fallen world and the son =descended from the loins of- a fallen, former human being son of God who dwelt in Paradise, in the third heaven, and who fellowshipped with God the Word each evening.
If God had not set man back by confounding the tongue, shortening the life span, and dividing the land mass into many and spreading the tribes out over those divided land masses, which were separated by the waters of the oceans filling new made chasms as the land mass separated [which all began at the fall of the tower of Bab-el], then, as God said, "nothing our human being race could imagine would be withheld from us", and so: enter a great dark age caused by God so as to keep the seed being born instead of the evil minded and evil hearted human being race nuking itself to annihilation before all the seed could be born who were written in the Book of Life for salvation, to be His adopted sons in the New Man name for the regenerated heavens and earth.
We have not begun to achieve the technology of our ancient fathers, and God gives dark ages as needed to mankind, and set backs in technology so as to keep His plan going forward.
Upvote
0
God's chariots are living beings -Even the altar in heaven is a living being, for the horns of the altar speak, in Revelation...
When Ezekiel saw the throne of the Glory of the LORD in chapter 1 and 10, he wrote of the "revolving" creatures with eyes all around as living beings.
The word for them is translated "wheels" in the English, in Ezekiel, but Enoch saw them and described them as living beings named "Owphannin/ Owphan/ Owphannim -spellings differ. Ezekiel saw them and they are wheels/'owphan .
David said His chariots are angels, which is consistent with Ezekiel's vision:
Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
4 Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also from within it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man.
6 Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings.
7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves feet. They sparkled like the color of burnished bronze.
8 The hands of a man were under their wings on their four sides; and each of the four had faces and wings. 9 Their wings touched one another. The creatures did not turn when they went, but each one went straight forward.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, each had the face of a man; each of the four had the face of a lion on the right side, each of the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and each of the four had the face of an eagle. 11 Thus were their faces. Their wings stretched upward; two wings of each one touched one another, and two covered their bodies. 12 And each one went straight forward; they went wherever the spirit wanted to go, and they did not turn when they went.
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches going back and forth among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire went lightning.
14 And the living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning.
15 Now as I looked at the living creatures, behold, a wheel was on the earth beside each living creature with its four faces.
16 The appearance of the wheels and their workings was like the color of beryl, and all four had the same likeness. The appearance of their workings was, as it were, a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
17 When they moved, they went toward any one of four directions; they did not turn aside when they went.
18 As for their rims, they were so high they were awesome; and their rims were full of eyes, all around the four of them.
19 When the living creatures went, the wheels/'owphan . went beside them; and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels/'owphan . were lifted up.
20 Wherever the spirit wanted to go, they went, because there the spirit went; and the wheels/'owphan . were lifted together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels/'owphan .
21 When those went, these went; when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels/'owphan were lifted up together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels/'owphan .
When Ezekiel saw the throne of the Glory of the LORD in chapter 1 and 10, he wrote of the "revolving" creatures with eyes all around as living beings.
The word for them is translated "wheels" in the English, in Ezekiel, but Enoch saw them and described them as living beings named "Owphannin/ Owphan/ Owphannim -spellings differ. Ezekiel saw them and they are wheels/'owphan .
David said His chariots are angels, which is consistent with Ezekiel's vision:
Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
4 Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also from within it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man.
6 Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings.
7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves feet. They sparkled like the color of burnished bronze.
8 The hands of a man were under their wings on their four sides; and each of the four had faces and wings. 9 Their wings touched one another. The creatures did not turn when they went, but each one went straight forward.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, each had the face of a man; each of the four had the face of a lion on the right side, each of the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and each of the four had the face of an eagle. 11 Thus were their faces. Their wings stretched upward; two wings of each one touched one another, and two covered their bodies. 12 And each one went straight forward; they went wherever the spirit wanted to go, and they did not turn when they went.
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches going back and forth among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire went lightning.
14 And the living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning.
15 Now as I looked at the living creatures, behold, a wheel was on the earth beside each living creature with its four faces.
16 The appearance of the wheels and their workings was like the color of beryl, and all four had the same likeness. The appearance of their workings was, as it were, a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
17 When they moved, they went toward any one of four directions; they did not turn aside when they went.
18 As for their rims, they were so high they were awesome; and their rims were full of eyes, all around the four of them.
19 When the living creatures went, the wheels/'owphan . went beside them; and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels/'owphan . were lifted up.
20 Wherever the spirit wanted to go, they went, because there the spirit went; and the wheels/'owphan . were lifted together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels/'owphan .
21 When those went, these went; when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels/'owphan were lifted up together with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels/'owphan .
Upvote
0
Jipsah
Blood Drinker
- Aug 17, 2005
- 13,769
- 4,456
- 71
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Sure they are. They're in the same chapter with Chrevolets, Batman, and the sun going in and out of "portals".
I'm pretty sure that it comes from the fictional load load of tommyrot that you've decided ought to supercede the Bible. If I want fantasy, I'll read something by Tolkien.
Upvote
0
Jipsah
Blood Drinker
- Aug 17, 2005
- 13,769
- 4,456
- 71
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
And that's where ol' "Enoch" lost all credibility he might ever have had. Even a casual study of the skies proves that "Enoch" not only knew nothing about how God had designed the universe, he apparently didn't even suspect a whole lot. His descriptions of the behavior of astronomical bodies, and specifically the sun, are so far from the reality of God's design as to be laughable.
You're right aout one thing, though. God's design hasn't changed. "Enoch's" ideas were as ridiculous when they were written down as they are today.
If this thread has accomplished anything at all, it has established that "Enoch" is utterly without merit of any kind, and is the worst kind of nonsense. It's isn't even good fiction. To try and foist it off as part of the Holy Bible is pure folly.
Upvote
0
Heliocentism is the idea that the sun is the center of the universe. It's not exactly something extraordinary to the notion of geocentrism.
In fact, Copernicus could have been easily disputed in those times simply because they had no idea about relativity, and that everything which allegedly revolves around Earth could simply be an illusion of everything revolving around it.
Geocentrists, if they had enough wit, could have put Copernicus in the dirt.
At the same time, it was the Late Ages. Science was practical, everything else was put to religion.
Upvote
0
sculleywr
Orthodox Colitis Survivor
- Jul 23, 2011
- 7,789
- 683
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Engaged
- Politics
- US-Others
My words are anti-man. We've been through space. Voyager has been out past Pluto. It's over man. Geocentrism will NEVER be true, and has NEVER been true. It is ONLY the interpretations of MAN.
And men who are ignorant enough to blame a centuries old Church for their beliefs when that church doesn't teach their beliefs need to just stop.
Launch yourself around the moon if you're so enthusiastic about geocentrism. We will gladly remove every mathematical model that assumes the reality of the earth's motion. Try to call for a recovery team before you reach the asteroid belt.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
