The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

ViaCrucis

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Oh good, I was just thinking how nice it'd be to resurrect a dead thread where people try to argue that science is evil because their private interpretation of the Bible is more important than God's objective creation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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prodromos

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Enoch did, and told us.
There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord; and because of these abominable practices the Lord your God is driving them out before you.​
 
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yeshuasavedme

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As to the paths of the sun and moon and stars, the angel took Enoch on a tour of the heavens and showed him exactly how God set the ordinances of heaven to bring in the days, years and seasons, "exactly".
God set them in the heavens in their courses for earth.
The Calendars belong to the Creator, and His days, weeks, months and years are measured exactly by His Days of the evenings and mornings, which from Day 4 of creation week are measured by the ordinances of the heavenly bodies He made and set in their courses..
 
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The Liturgist

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ahhhh, yes. Now I remember! thanks

Note that the Ethiopian and Eritrean Tewahedo Orthodox Churches, while accepting 1 Enoch as canonical, do not read it in a manner that contradicts their existing doctrine. Specifically with regards to the chapter 80 which @yeshuasavedme quotes, that calendar is evidently interpreted non-literally using Alexandrian exegesis, since the Ethiopian church and the Eritrean church both make use of the Julian calendar, and not the calendar defined in Chapter 80.

That said, chapter 80 is historically interesting because its calendar system resembles the Karaite calendar, and gives credence to the idea that the Karaite Jews successfully reconstructed the old Jewish calendar from before the Rabinnical reconfiguration of it post-diaspora, which led to the Council of Nicaea rejecting Quartodecimianism as a means of calculating the date of Pascha.

However, as a general principle, the hermeneutical principle of interpretation of 1 Enoch and Revelation is not credible.

Of course the fact that I can assert that by itself means nothing, because if I have not love, I am nothing, and consequently it is only with some reticence that I comment on this, chiefly for the sake of members who might be led astray or into apostasy by certain errors contained in this thread, specifically the Geocentric idea, which is demonstrably false, and the falsehood of which is easily verifiable.

Christianity is losing adherents due to a false perception that we are, as a religion, lacking in intellectual ability; the evil one is keen to influence people to promote the narrative that Christians are uneducated, which is of course completely false, when we look at the large number of scientists, engineers, programmers, philosophers, physicians, aviators and astronauts who are members of the Christian religion, but it is a toxic narrative that we must work together in a loving manner to dispel.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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... since the Ethiopian church and the Eritrean church both make use of the Julian calendar, and not the calendar defined in Chapter 80.

That said, chapter 80 is historically interesting because...
So?
Enoch did not show God's geocentric calender ordinances in chapter 80.
The calendar Uriel showed Enoch begins in chapter 72, and ends in 82, with 80 being a discourse on the times of the sinners in the Tribulation.
In chapter 80 Uriel shows Enoch the days coming, when the orders of the sun, moon, and stars change course during the days of the sinners =the tribulation.
Isaiah and John, in Revelation both show the same.
Isaiah also states that the earth will be moved out of her place at that time, and jump about as a hunted Roe and will turn upside down and seasons will be backwards.

John also is told by the angel (messenger/angel is Enoch, there, who is dwelling with the Watcher angels in heaven and shows John the things to come, and also showed Daniel the things to come to Daniel's people in the last days -Daniel 10:21).
Enoch read all the tablets in heaven, and when showing John the things to come, John falls to his feet to worship him, twice, but the glorified human being showing John the things to come who came out of the temple of God in heaven (which temple is in the sun, as Scripture states, clearly), with a bowl of wrath to pour out on earth, told John not to do that, that he, himself, is a fellow prophet and a brother (a human being).
In those days of the tribulation, the messenger showing John everything states that the ordinances of heaven will be changed at that time, and the day and night portions of "one/echad "Day" will be shortened by 1/3 parts of them, each, making a whole day = 12 parts (roughly 16 hours as men are calculating them, in error, BTW).
Jesus also spoke of those days as being "HOT", and the days' parts "cut short" so that all flesh on earth will not perish (because of the sun's extreme heat in those days when earth is moved out of her place -signs in the heavens include that).
 
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Jipsah

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Oh good, I was just thinking how nice it'd be to resurrect a dead thread where people try to argue that science is evil because their private interpretation of the Bible is more important than God's objective creation.

-CryptoLutheran
My sediments (sic) exactly! Anyway, in the Book of Enoch, the Holy Angel Uriel sez that the sun moves west all day, then heads north, exits through a portal, then goes back east to get ready to rise in the east the next day. I reckon that settles the matter. Yeah, my daughter declares that it's daylight in Korea (she's visiting her mom's family there) while it's dark here, but she ain't fooling me none. I know that the sun is really hotfooting it back east to as to pop up here here in the morning. I mean, who am I gonna believe here, my daughter or a Holy Angel?
 
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Jipsah

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In chapter 80 Uriel shows Enoch the days coming, when the orders of the sun, moon, and stars change course during the days of the sinners =the tribulation.
Yeah, but old Uriel is the same guy who gve us a description of the movements of the Heavenly Luminaries in which every word was false, even, as the saying goes, the "ands" and "thes".
 
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prodromos

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E=mc^2... if i put a magnet on the fridge door, it has no acceleration, therefore e=m x 0 (zero) m x 0 = 0... if the magnet has no energy, how is it staying on the fridge? Therefore e=mc^2 is false... undeniable.
Congratulations!
You've just made it clear to everyone that you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Sun n moon are in the firmament. Not flying through expanding space, while spinning. The Sun stopped moving, not the earth stopped spinning. All eyes shall see... earth has pillars. Earth is immovable. Earth is His footstool.. trust the bible. Earth isnt a rock floating in air, bcus rocks dont float in air. On a globe, up and down is dependant on each persons position, so there would be no up or down, however we all know there is up and there is down, bcus earth is a plane not a plane(t). Earth is stationary and non rotating. Gen says He created 2 lights, not one light and a reflector, it says 2 lights... but satan has deceived the whole world into a heliocentric (helios-sun god) belief, which allows for lies of big bang and evolution. Worshipping satan the sun god as u spin and circle the sun and fly thru neverending expanding nothingness... water always finds its level, meaning the surface of water is flat, if so, how is 70% of the earth covered in curved oceans? Bcus it isnt, it cant be, bcus the surface of water is level, hence sea level. Not sea curve, sea level...

Someone failed their grade school science class. Like, you aren't even getting the science you are trying to reject correct here.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Prove it wrong using the scientific method. Not theoretical science, psuedo science, but the scientific method. instead of just insults. Since you are a christian, insults shouldnt be your way of reacting, right? Like the michelson morely experiment. Or einstein saying he cant prove that the earth spins...Or did u not learn that in grade school science class?

How about this: Using your flat earth model explain the Venusian transit as it can be observed from an earth-bound observer.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Hmm

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Magnet doesnt move, therefore acceleration is 0, if c = 0, then m x 0^2 = 0... so e would = 0...but the magnet does have energy, it holds itself up, also repels or pulls, thats energy, it uses energy, yet c = 0, therefore m x 0 = 0 , e =0, but the magnet obviously has energy... its simple

It's not simple because it is simply wrong. "c" here has nothing to do with the acceleration of the magnet - it's the speed of light in a vacuum which is a constant, about 300,000,000 m/s. The only thing faster is the speed of gossip, which has its own special laws.
 
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prodromos

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Magnet doesnt move, therefore acceleration is 0, if c = 0, then m x 0^2 = 0... so e would = 0...but the magnet does have energy, it holds itself up, also repels or pulls, thats energy, it uses energy, yet c = 0, therefore m x 0 = 0 , e =0, but the magnet obviously has energy... its simple
As @Hmm has graciously explained, you are trying to plug a value into an equation that has nothing to do with what you are claiming to prove. "E=mc^2" has to do with conversion of mass into energy or vice versa and has absolutely nothing to do with the force of magnetism. Making the claim you did, and then demanding that others use the "scientific method" to prove their claims unfortunately makes you look even more foolish.
Perhaps you could demonstrate using the scientific method how people living North of the equator see different stars in the night sky to people living South of the equator, yet we both see the same sun and moon. Why do the stars rotate anticlockwise around the north celestial pole North of the equator, yet South of the equator they rotate clockwise around a south celestial pole? If the earth was flat then any rotation should be in the same direction from anywhere on the earth.
 
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pescador

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When I look up in the sky over a period of time, the sun moves in its daily arc. It moves relative to me.

The Bible is not a science textbook. It is written to the observing person for spiritual guidance. In the same way, science textbooks don't teach faith.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Galileo Was Wrong: Reviews their over 700-page book, Galileo Was Wrong, Drs. Robert Sungenis and Robert Bennett make a convincing case for the special and central position of the earth in the cosmos, both physically and spiritually. This is, of course, radically at odds from what everyone is taught from childhood; everyone “knows” the earth revolves around the sun. However, from time to time, like the little girl in Hans Christian Andersen’s tale The Emperor’s New Clothes, accepted “wisdom” is challenged; and what everyone “knows” to be true turns out to be merely a concocted fantasy. Drs. Sungenis and Bennett make a powerful case that the “truths” of heliocentric and acentric cosmologies aiming to describe the “fabric” of space-time may in fact be constructed out of the same type of “cloth” as the outfit of the Emperor. Admirably presented in a format accessible to a scientific layman, the authors dismantle “proofs” of the earth’s motion such as Foucault’s pendulum, stellar parallax, and stellar aberration. In exhaustive detail, the authors also present the results from modern physics (such as interferometer experiments) and astronomical observations, suggesting that in fact the position of the earth may be where it was held to be prior to the “Copernican revolution”; namely, the unmoving center of the universe. The authors provide quotes from eminent cosmologists admitting that this cannot be refuted by observation but is only rejected on philosophical grounds, and raise the disturbing possibility that part of modern cosmology and physics, including Relativity Theory, has been invented out of “whole cloth” precisely to avoid the philosophical implications of a universe with a motionless earth at the center.
As @Hmm has graciously explained, you are trying to plug a value into an equation that has nothing to do with what you are claiming to prove. "E=mc^2" has to do with conversion of mass into energy or vice versa and has absolutely nothing to do with the force of magnetism. Making the claim you did, and then demanding that others use the "scientific method" to prove their claims unfortunately makes you look even more foolish.
Perhaps you could demonstrate using the scientific method how people living North of the equator see different stars in the night sky to people living South of the equator, yet we both see the same sun and moon. Why do the stars rotate anticlockwise around the north celestial pole North of the equator, yet South of the equator they rotate clockwise around a south celestial pole? If the earth was flat then any rotation should be in the same direction from anywhere on the earth.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Galileo Was Wrong: Reviews their over 700-page book, Galileo Was Wrong, Drs. Robert Sungenis and Robert Bennett make a convincing case for the special and central position of the earth in the cosmos, both physically and spiritually. This is, of course, radically at odds from what everyone is taught from childhood; everyone “knows” the earth revolves around the sun. However, from time to time, like the little girl in Hans Christian Andersen’s tale The Emperor’s New Clothes, accepted “wisdom” is challenged; and what everyone “knows” to be true turns out to be merely a concocted fantasy. Drs. Sungenis and Bennett make a powerful case that the “truths” of heliocentric and acentric cosmologies aiming to describe the “fabric” of space-time may in fact be constructed out of the same type of “cloth” as the outfit of the Emperor. Admirably presented in a format accessible to a scientific layman, the authors dismantle “proofs” of the earth’s motion such as Foucault’s pendulum, stellar parallax, and stellar aberration. In exhaustive detail, the authors also present the results from modern physics (such as interferometer experiments) and astronomical observations, suggesting that in fact the position of the earth may be where it was held to be prior to the “Copernican revolution”; namely, the unmoving center of the universe. The authors provide quotes from eminent cosmologists admitting that this cannot be refuted by observation but is only rejected on philosophical grounds, and raise the disturbing possibility that part of modern cosmology and physics, including Relativity Theory, has been invented out of “whole cloth” precisely to avoid the philosophical implications of a universe with a motionless earth at the center.
Dear Chet: see above post. Not barking.
My "Tree" is God the Word come in flesh of 2nd "Man" creation, to be Redeemer/Kinsman to His dead in spirit, defiled in garment, Adam flesh brother; and the kingdom which Adam, son of God (Luke 3:38),
sold into sin, spiritual death, corruption, and physical death.
The name of my TREE is "ISRAEL", the 2nd flesh creation Man and only created brother of Adam, former, dead, son of God.
His name, as 2nd Man, Firstborn Son of God (cause first, firstborn son of God is irrevobably dead) is Israel, as Isaiah writes as prophet of YHVH in Isaiah 49.
YHVH in the Person of God the Word put on the garment of flesh prepared in the womb of a virgin for His donning by God the Holy Spirit, as Isaiah the prophet writes in Isaiah 59.
That all said: in heaven, God the Word wrote the "toledot/generations" of earth =the creation of it, which Adam read in heaven when he dwelt in Paradise, in the third heaven, on the east of the of the Holy Mountain where Paradise still is, and where the Tree of Life still is, as Jesus says.
You will not get anywhere with the pseudo science of fallen men who deny the written Word about creation week and claim men wrote it, not knowing anything about what they said.
 
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Hmm

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book, Galileo Was Wrong, Drs. Robert Sungenis and Robert Bennett make a convincing case for the special and central position of the earth in the cosmos, both physically and spiritually.

Possibly spiritually but physically the Earth is described more accurately by Douglas Adams in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea."
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Possibly spiritually but physically the Earth is described more accurately by Douglas Adams in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea."
Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, was taken on a tour of the entire heavens and shown the exact orbits of the sun, moon, and stars/constellations. He wrote their paths all down, as the angel showed him, and he gave the books to Methuselah, his son, to leave for his descendants.

And, FYI: the word of God states that the Creator has "set His temple in the sun".
David wrote it in psalm 18 (19 in AV),
in Hebrew.
Septuagint translated it the same.
Latin Vulgate translated it the same.
Douay Rheims translated it the same.
It is Bible Truth.
 
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ChetSinger

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Dear Chet: see above post. Not barking.
My "Tree" is God the Word come in flesh of 2nd "Man" creation, to be Redeemer/Kinsman to His dead in spirit, defiled in garment, Adam flesh brother; and the kingdom which Adam, son of God (Luke 3:38),
sold into sin, spiritual death, corruption, and physical death.
The name of my TREE is "ISRAEL", the 2nd flesh creation Man and only created brother of Adam, former, dead, son of God.
His name, as 2nd Man, Firstborn Son of God (cause first, firstborn son of God is irrevobably dead) is Israel, as Isaiah writes as prophet of YHVH in Isaiah 49.
YHVH in the Person of God the Word put on the garment of flesh prepared in the womb of a virgin for His donning by God the Holy Spirit, as Isaiah the prophet writes in Isaiah 59.
That all said: in heaven, God the Word wrote the "toledot/generations" of earth =the creation of it, which Adam read in heaven when he dwelt in Paradise, in the third heaven, on the east of the of the Holy Mountain where Paradise still is, and where the Tree of Life still is, as Jesus says.
You will not get anywhere with the pseudo science of fallen men who deny the written Word about creation week and claim men wrote it, not knowing anything about what they said.
You asked me to look at your post to prodomos. I did, and read that it questions relativity.

So...

I had mentioned at our GPS systems have relativistic corrections to their algorithms to improve their accuracy. It turns out that those corrections are even more important than I realized. Here's a monograph about how necessary they are.


Here are some relevant excerpts:

But in a relativistic world, things are not simple. The satellite clocks are moving at 14,000 km/hr in orbits that circle the Earth twice per day, much faster than clocks on the surface of the Earth, and Einstein's theory of special relativity says that rapidly moving clocks tick more slowly, by about seven microseconds (millionths of a second) per day.

Also, the orbiting clocks are 20,000 km above the Earth, and experience gravity that is four times weaker than that on the ground. Einstein's general relativity theory says that gravity curves space and time, resulting in a tendency for the orbiting clocks to tick slightly faster, by about 45 microseconds per day. The net result is that time on a GPS satellite clock advances faster than a clock on the ground by about 38 microseconds per day.

To determine its location, the GPS receiver uses the time at which each signal from a satellite was emitted, as determined by the on-board atomic clock and encoded into the signal, together the with speed of light, to calculate the distance between itself and the satellites it communicated with. The orbit of each satellite is known accurately. Given enough satellites, it is a simple problem in Euclidean geometry to compute the receiver's precise location, both in space and time. To achieve a navigation accuracy of 15 meters, time throughout the GPS system must be known to an accuracy of 50 nanoseconds, which simply corresponds to the time required for light to travel 15 meters.

But at 38 microseconds per day, the relativistic offset in the rates of the satellite clocks is so large that, if left uncompensated, it would cause navigational errors that accumulate faster than 10 km per day! GPS accounts for relativity by electronically adjusting the rates of the satellite clocks, and by building mathematical corrections into the computer chips which solve for the user's location. Without the proper application of relativity, GPS would fail in its navigational functions within about 2 minutes.​

So, there it is. Without relativistic corrections the GPS system will experience navigational errors of 10km per day.

Please, I'm not saying the Bible is wrong. Quite the opposite, I'm theologically conservative. I'm just saying that God wrote it to us with an Earth-centric viewpoint. What else would he use?

Btw, don't bother quoting Enoch to me...it's not in my Bible.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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You asked me to look at your post to prodomos. I did, and read that it questions relativity.

So...
Actually, Chet, in the book "Galileo was Wrong", the authors give lots of info that shows the theory of relativity is just a theory, and not proven, but that isn't the tree I bark at, as I said. I love the Word of God and believe the Word of God is far richer than anything so called theories of men who deny the Word outright or else say that men are just plain too dumb to understand what "they" do....
 
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