The Status of Secular Music Forum

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Well... I didnt read through all 6 pages of this thread, and I have to admit, up until this point, I avoided the thread because I didnt know what I thought... specially because the Music forum is by far my favorite place to post.

Im sorry if I repeat sometihng that has already been said... please forgive me, but I didnt want other people's opinions to make me sway one way or another.

Now I hope that I have posted enough here, that my opinions on the matter would be taken into account.

Ok I remain undecided- however I am swaying in the direction of leaving it as is.
Here are my reasons:
-We have a community built in here. The people who post here bring a diversity to the forum, and we have almost created a community. We respect eachothers opinions and tastes in music. We already all know eachother, and I find that really awesome.

-I also find, that by being in the Christian only part... this is probally gonna come out all wrong, and I appologize if it does... but It seems that we all listen to secular music that (in my opinion) would be appropriate for believers to listen to. Meaning, that we dont listen to some really heavy sick stuff... and thats cool. But Im sure there are some athiests and other non believers who may listen to things that I just wouldnt want a part of this forum (Marilyn Manson, Insane Clown Posse...etc) Now I am not saying this to be steryotypical or anything like that.... so I beg that you dont think that way about me.

-Im also afraid that it would give the non believers a reason to flame us, for listening to secular music... and like someone already said, I too sense some hostility towards christians byt he other non believers on the forum. I purposly avoid the open forums because they make my head spin. I think about all the flamming that was done when the Passion came out... and I would just hate to see this music forum turn into something bad.

Anyways... I will post later when I have thought about it more, I Just felt since I do post here quite often, that I should add my opinions.

Im sure this has been mentioned already, but is it possible to keep this one as it is, and add a "music" forum in the entertainment part of the open forum? Or would htat be too much work for Erwin...

Anyways feel free to post your comments.
God Bless
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In God I trust
You Should too

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

DON'T MOVE IT PLEEEEAAASE!!!

I love nadro, and his opinions are excellent and well thought out, but I rarely venture out of the Christians only section anymore for two reasons.

1 - for me it serves as a stumbling block on some issues, I get angry, I become doubtful and most importantly I take my eyes off Christ for my own selfish pride.

2 - unfortunately, while not the case across the board, there are many non-christian posters who are, let's just say, less than tolerant of Christians and our "silly" notions.

I think the dialogue here is good on topics that relate to Christians. I would like another option. Perhaps add a music forum is the non-Christian section and combine all the Christian only music forums into one.

Excellent post... I feel the same way... I get very angry and my "blood pressure boils" when I entre the open forums.

I would really hate to see this place be moved

 

[Larry]

Discussions about whether or not you should listen to it, will not be found in other forums, the open ones in particular. Not biblically discussed in any case.

Why not? I see other issues being Biblically discussed in the open forums. And they should be.

I think I made the point about needing to be stronger in one's faith. However, you won't grow your faith when constantly surrounded by influences (people, music, whatever) that are opposed to it.

Try the General Theology forum, or even the Creation/Theistic Evolution forum on the Christian-only side. We poor, stupid, naive, YECS apparently haven't the mental capacity to even be on the internet in the first place.

Create a new music forum in the open section to discuss music with those guys.

We are supposed to be able to give an answer for our hope, but everyone needs a recharge, or a safe haven. Didn't Jesus go off by himself to pray? Didn't he likely spend time with only his disciples?

That's why there are already so many Christians Only forums. Sections like "Deeper Fellowship", "Daily Devotionals & Quiet Times", "Prayer Requests", "Praise Reports", "Testimonies" and a slew of others make for a wonderful safe haven for Christians who just want to hang out with other Christians in unity and edification, without arguments or hassle. How or what does the secular music forum add, that the above mentioned forums do not? What is it about secular music which makes you think, "Oh yeah. This needs to be kept for Christians only."?

 

[DJ_Ghost]

But Im sure there are some athiests and other non believers who may listen to things that I just wouldnt want a part of this forum (Marilyn Manson, Insane Clown Posse...etc) Now I am not saying this to be steryotypical or anything like that.... so I beg that you dont think that way about me.

Well you are probably going to think ill of me for this, which is a shame becasue I kind of like you, but I listen to some music I am pretty certain you would not aprove of at all. Infact you mention Marilyn manson and I do on occasion (although I admit its a very rare occasion) listen to him. I don't like his work much on the whole (not becase of my Christian ethics, but becase I love Music and frankly some of his work isn't that good in my opinion), but I do occasionaly pop the odd track on. I rather like his version of "Tainted Love" (although both the original and the soft cell version are superior musicaly I think).

-Im also afraid that it would give the non believers a reason to flame us, for listening to secular music... and like someone already said, I too sense some hostility towards christians byt he other non believers on the forum. I purposly avoid the open forums because they make my head spin. I think about all the flamming that was done when the Passion came out... and I would just hate to see this music forum turn into something bad..

Ah well, here we differ again. Personaly I don't mind defending my faith from others. In the end I feel its part of my faith that I adhere to it under criticism from others, and in the past I have changed peoples views about Chrisitanity by defending my choice. Not converted them you understand, but made them more tolerant of Christianity. then I have always been strong in both my faith and my love of a good debate, and even I have moments when I could do without it, so I understand what you are saying.

Anyways... I will post later when I have thought about it more, I Just felt since I do post here quite often, that I should add my opinions.

Yes of course.
Besides your post has sort of clarrified for me the points one or two other people had made. Taken together I have re-considered my opinion. Not changed it you understand, on balance I would still like to see non-christians able to post here, but I have though about it again and my opinion is no longer as strongly held as before.

Ghost

 

[brettnolan]

I think I've made my point clear. I also think that the management of the site has done an excellent job making a place for all who wish to come here. The name of the site is CHRISTIANforums.com. One would think that it would be ALL about Christians, but Erwin and staff has made it a welcome site for anyone who wants to be involved in a friendly discussion about faith issues and still been able to provide a place where Christians aren't constantly attacked.

Another question would be, why do non-Christians come to this site in the first place? To find a music forum? Highly doubt it. Most likely they are here to debate, to make fun of, and I'm sure there are many who come to learn about the faith. Why do they need a forum about music at all? I propose, again, adding a music forum to the open section and leaving this one as is.

You're not going to talk about secular music in the Deeper Fellowship forum, BTW.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

Discussions about whether or not you should listen to it, will not be found in other forums, the open ones in particular. Not biblically discussed in any case.

I wasn't aware that much of this forum is taken up with discussing that either. People seem pretty entrenched in their views on that subject and the one thread I see it being "discussed" in is an argument not a discussion. No one on either side of the issue is changing their mind.

I think I made the point about needing to be stronger in one's faith. However, you won't grow your faith when constantly surrounded by influences (people, music, whatever) that are opposed to it.

I disagree. Nine did. My faith grew much stronger in the face of oposition. I think if your faith isn't strong enough to servive when surounded by those who don't share it then it isn't strong enough full stop.

Try the General Theology forum, or even the Creation/Theistic Evolution forum on the Christian-only side. We poor, stupid, naive, YECS apparently haven't the mental capacity to even be on the internet in the first place.

I just don't understand that attitude at all. You seem perfectly capable of constructing and presenting a well reasoned argument to me. Anyone who says otherwise is doing you a huge dis service.

Create a new music forum in the open section to discuss music with those guys.

Okay that makes sense. Although will the site admins be happy with such a solution? I think some one mentioned them not whanting to double up.

We are supposed to be able to give an answer for our hope, but everyone needs a recharge, or a safe haven. Didn't Jesus go off by himself to pray? Didn't he likely spend time with only his disciples?

Agreed, bu there are still plenty of Christian only forums. I guess I just don't see secular music as a christian only subject. Although I am begining to see peoples points about why they would like it to stay here. I'm certainly less convinced of my own opinion than before, but on balance I still lean to "move it".

Ghost

 

[Larry]

Im also afraid that it would give the non believers a reason to flame us, for listening to secular music... and like someone already said, I too sense some hostility towards christians byt he other non believers on the forum. I purposly avoid the open forums because they make my head spin. I think about all the flamming that was done when the Passion came out... and I would just hate to see this music forum turn into something bad.

Any flame, judgement or dissent would probably occur with other Christians who do not 'approve' of secular music - as evident in this forum already, in threads like, "Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?".

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Well you are probably going to think ill of me for this, which is a shame becasue I kind of like you, but I listen to some music I am pretty certain you would not aprove of at all. Infact you mention Marilyn manson and I do on occasion (although I admit its a very rare occasion) listen to him. I don't like his work much on the whole (not becase of my Christian ethics, but becase I love Music and frankly some of his work isn't that good in my opinion), but I do occasionaly pop the odd track on. I rather like his version of "Tainted Love" (although both the original and the soft cell version are superior musicaly I think).

Well just so you know, my opinion of you isnt any less...(waite that sounds bad, I never had a low opinion of you ) I appreciate that you can respect Manson, and Im glad to know that you dont like all of his stuff... Its great that you can appreciate music, and you do appreciate him. Personally, I do not like him, but being a music buff... I can appreciate what hes done... however.. he is an ordained minister in the church of Satan... and I would really really hate to bring that kidna stuff into our site.

Ah well, here we differ again. Personaly I don't mind defending my faith from others. In the end I feel its part of my faith that I adhere to it under criticism from others, and in the past I have changed peoples views about Chrisitanity by defending my choice. Not converted them you understand, but made them more tolerant of Christianity. then I have always been strong in both my faith and my love of a good debate, and even I have moments when I could do without it, so I understand what you are saying.

I think you misread my post.. or I wasnt clear... which is a possibility... I LOVE defending my faith. I really do... adn I can debate with the best of them. I just figure that there will be alot of flamming going on. Why wouldnt it happen on the music part of an open forum? It happens in the other parts of the entertainment forum. Just as much on some of the christians parts... Ive seen some christians on there flamming non believers for what they watch or whatever.... I totally believe its a two way street.

Most believers who do not approve of the Secular forum have already posted thier opinions in here, and I Just feel that maybe those who do not agree with the secular music part of the forum, will have an excuse to debate with the non believers about something else (this time being a music forum). I guess I just really love it here, and I love the community of believers who share a common interest in music, that dosent have to be christian music. Often times Ive seen threads in this section about how maybe God has spoken thru a certain secular song... or how you've been touched by a secular song in a spiritual way.... and I wouldnt want to loose discussions like that because its in an open forum... meaning the non believers flamming us... also debates that we can have like, whether b ands are "christian" or not.... I will use the Evanessance debate just as an example... but Ive seen others too. [/QUOTE]

Yes of course.
Besides your post has sort of clarrified for me the points one or two other people had made. Taken together I have re-considered my opinion. Not changed it you understand, on balance I would still like to see non-christians able to post here, but I have though about it again and my opinion is no longer as strongly held as before.

Ghost

Well I am glad that I could get my point across to someone... whether you agree with me or not But thats ok... we are allowed to agree to disagree. Im glad you have reconsidered yoru opinion

I guess when it comes right down to it, I hope that if it remains the way it is, that we will not loose our great posters... same way if its moved... I would hate to see some people stop posting because of it.

This is also something we could all be praying for as the decisions are made too.... I will certainly be.

 

[redjosh]

i'm gonna change my vote to christian only... i love this place as it is. and hearing your reasons for it to stay the same make sense.

i really should think properly before just ticking the box

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Any flame, judgement or dissent would probably occur with other Christians who do not 'approve' of secular music - as evident in this forum already, in threads like, "Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?".

hehehe I addressed that already in my resonse to Ghost... I totally agree.

 

[Larry]

I think I've made my point clear. I also think that the management of the site has done an excellent job making a place for all who wish to come here. The name of the site is CHRISTIANforums.com. One would think that it would be ALL about Christians, but Erwin and staff has made it a welcome site for anyone who wants to be involved in a friendly discussion about faith issues and still been able to provide a place where Christians aren't constantly attacked.

And the thing that makes this site so sucsessful, is that non-Christians are allowed here. In addition to fellowship with other Christians, we also have the opportunity to interact with, and be a witness to non-Christians. If Erwin wanted to, he could have made this entire site a Christians Only site. We would all be preaching to the choir and nothing more. The great commission to spread the Gospel would be non-existant here.

Another question would be, why do non-Christians come to this site in the first place? To find a music forum? Highly doubt it.

The same can be said of Christians. Did we come here to find a secular music forum? I highly doubt that too.

Most likely they are here to debate, to make fun of, and I'm sure there are many who come to learn about the faith.

There are all kinds of reasons why both Christians and non-Christians come to this site. That is not the issue here.

Why do they need a forum about music at all?

The same could be asked about us. Why do we need a forum about secular music at all?

I propose, again, adding a music forum to the open section and leaving this one as is.

Erwin already said that he's not going to do that, so this is not an option.

You're not going to talk about secular music in the Deeper Fellowship forum, BTW.

Why not?

 

[brettnolan]

I wasn't aware that much of this forum is taken up with discussing that either. People seem pretty entrenched in their views on that subject and the one thread I see it being "discussed" in is an argument not a discussion. No one on either side of the issue is changing their mind.

Not a huge portion. But some. "Discussion" seems to turn to argument, especially when people start attacking the person rather than the issue and also when people ignore the issue and hijack the thread.

I disagree. Nine did. My faith grew much stronger in the face of oposition. I think if your faith isn't strong enough to servive when surounded by those who don't share it then it isn't strong enough full stop.

I think you are a lucky exception to the rule. It only seems obvious to me that one will become more like the people one hangs around with. Same reason we tell our kids to choose their friends wisely.

I just don't understand that attitude at all. You seem perfectly capable of constructing and presenting a well reasoned argument to me. Anyone who says otherwise is doing you a huge dis service.

I agree, but it seems that the "intellectuals" have the market cornered on the origin of life and the universe.

Agreed, bu there are still plenty of Christian only forums. I guess I just don't see secular music as a christian only subject. Although I am begining to see peoples points about why they would like it to stay here. I'm certainly less convinced of my own opinion than before, but on balance I still lean to "move it".

Just imagine the General Theology forum in the open section.

I can see the argument behind moving it as well. But I also like having the option of being able to discuss topics outside of "who likes band a?" in a section where most people understand my Christian viewpoint already.

 

[PreacherFergy]

can't ya'll read, it's PreacherFergy, not Fergie

 

[Larry]

Not a huge portion. But some. "Discussion" seems to turn to argument, especially when people start attacking the person rather than the issue and also when people ignore the issue and hijack the thread.





I think you are a lucky exception to the rule. It only seems obvious to me that one will become more like the people one hangs around with. Same reason we tell our kids to choose their friends wisely.



I agree, but it seems that the "intellectuals" have the market cornered on the origin of life and the universe.



Just imagine the General Theology forum in the open section.

I can see the argument behind moving it as well. But I also like having the option of being able to discuss topics outside of "who likes band a?" in a section where most people understand my Christian viewpoint already.

Music is not discussed the same way doctrine and theology is discussed. They are on completely different planes. Further, how many times in this secular music forum are bands or music discussed from strictly a Christian viewpoint? Not many at all. Those types of discussions are rare in this secular music forum. Don't believe me? Poke around the threads in this forum. How often do you see music or bands being discussed from a Biblical viewpoint?

Edited to add: I don't even find you discussing secular music from a Christian viewpoint too often, brettnolan.

 

[brettnolan]

And the thing that makes this site so sucsessful, is that non-Christians are allowed here. In addition to fellowship with other Christians, we also have the opportunity to interact with, and be a witness to non-Christians. If Erwin wanted to, he could have made this entire site a Christians Only site. We would all be preaching to the choir and nothing more. The great commission to spread the Gospel would be non-existant here.

Agreed. Didn't I say that? But I contend, if it weren't for the Christian only section it wouldn't be so.

The same can be said of Christians. Did we come here to find a secular music forum? I highly doubt that too.

Good point. But would you expect to discuss music with other Christians at MTV.com?

There are all kinds of reasons why both Christians and non-Christians come to this site. That is not the issue here.

I disagree. The motivation of non-Christians on a site titled Christianforums.com is very relevant to the sections they would likely visit and their likely benefit or detriment to the discussion.

The same could be asked about us. Why do we need a forum about secular music at all?

Doesn't (didn't) PreacherFergy's thread address that issue?

Erwin already said that he's not going to do that, so this is not an option.

When did he say that?

Why not?

Because the discussion would be about 5 lame posts long.

 

[brettnolan]

can't ya'll read, it's PreacherFergy, not Fergie

This is your BEST POST EVER!!!

 

[brettnolan]

Music is not discussed the same way doctrine and theology is discussed. They are on completely different planes. Further, how many times in this secular music forum are bands or music discussed from strictly a Christian viewpoint? Not many at all. Those types of discussions are rare in this secular music forum. Don't believe me? Poke around the threads in this forum. How often do you see music or bands being discussed from a Biblical viewpoint?

Edited to add: I don't even find you discussing secular music from a Christian viewpoint too often, brettnolan.

Bands are NOT typically discussed from a Biblical viewpoint, but on occasion (lately) music is...

I'm getting a little frustrated. I think this particular forum is different from the others. I see a LOT of names here that I don't see anywhere else. I think these people have a unique perspective on "secular" music as it relates to the Christian person and I think it is useful to be able to tap into that viewpoint from time to time. I'll start a thread in another forum, just to see how it goes...then maybe I'll change my mind.

Regarding your edited comment, my original interest in this forum, was why so many Christians don't listen to secular AND Christian music. I firmly believe asking that question elsewhere would have been fruitless. The Fergy came along and I participated in that discussion until I could no longer read the thread, then I started another one just like it which fizzled. I would like to have more discussions like that but it seems we need a bit of a cooling off period.

 

[Larry]

But would you expect to discuss music with other Christians at MTV.com?

I am sure there are both Christian and non-Christian members of this site who also discuss music at a variety of other sites. I am just as sure that both Christian and non-Christian members of this site discussus all manner of doctrine and other topics on other sites. That is not the issue here. We are talking about the existing community of this site. Why, for example, should a "Battle of the Bands" thread, or a "U2 Fans" thread, or a "What are you listening to now?" thread, be exclusive to Christians only? This makes no sense at all.

The motivation of non-Christians on a site titled Christianforums.com is very relevant to the sections they would likely visit and their likely benefit or detriment to the discussion.

Except for a few trolls, (which are not limited to non-Christians), how exactly would non-Christians be a detriment to the discussions of secular music? I'd really like to hear this.

BTW, in the suggestions forum Erwin said he would not make 2 separate secular music forums. That's why ps139 started this thread.

 

[Grover143]

I voted for the forum to stay Christians-only. I like being able to talk on a "believer's only" setting when it comes to certain debates. At the same time I would be interested in seeing a separate forum for all participants that relate to music. It really doesn't matter too much to me, but I don't look to non-believers for advice when I discuss spiritual matters. I'm interested in their opinions and perceptions on christianity in general, but I feel the cannot offer much in the way of edification or instruction.

 

[Larry]

I voted for the forum to stay Christians-only. I like being able to talk on a "believer's only" setting when it comes to certain debates. At the same time I would be interested in seeing a separate forum for all participants that relate to music. It really doesn't matter too much to me, but I don't look to non-believers for advice when I discuss spiritual matters. I'm interested in their opinions and perceptions on christianity in general, but I feel the cannot offer much in the way of edification or instruction.

Some questions -

How many debates do you see occuring in this secular music forum? Can you point out where spiritual matters, edification and instruction are being discussed in this secular music forum? I must have missed all that.