The Status of Secular Music Forum

[blackwasp]

why did you vote christians only? Why vote at all? What is your purpose here? Do you think the whole forum should be removed because of "your" "opinion" of you see the bible?

Every CF member who posts on the Secular forum is entitled to his/her vote.

 

[ps139]

That's cool.

By the way, what is the window for this poll? What is the cut-off date?

Tomorrow night.

 

[* kittie *]

Every CF member who posts on the Secular forum is entitled to his/her vote.

hmmm...not if you don't listen to Secular music. Not if you're only here to criticize secular music.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

Every CF member who posts on the Secular forum is entitled to his/her vote.

I think Neennies point was why vote "Christians only" when he feels the forum should not be here at all. Not to imply that he was not entitled to a vote, but to question the legitimacy of registering a vote that does not, actualy, reflect his intentions.

Ghost

 

[brettnolan]

DON'T MOVE IT PLEEEEAAASE!!!

I love nadro, and his opinions are excellent and well thought out, but I rarely venture out of the Christians only section anymore for two reasons.

1 - for me it serves as a stumbling block on some issues, I get angry, I become doubtful and most importantly I take my eyes off Christ for my own selfish pride.

2 - unfortunately, while not the case across the board, there are many non-christian posters who are, let's just say, less than tolerant of Christians and our "silly" notions.

I think the dialogue here is good on topics that relate to Christians. I would like another option. Perhaps add a music forum is the non-Christian section and combine all the Christian only music forums into one.

 

[Oblivious]

It's funny - I never pay attention to what forums are "Christian Only" or whatever. I think it's stupid to designate any section on this forum "Christians Only" - no one should be excluded IMO, it's a public forum.

 

[peanutbutter12]

MOVE IT PLEEEEAAASE!!!

I love nadro, and his opinions are excellent and well thought out, And I always venture out of the Xians only section anymore for a few reasons.

1 - Because Xians aren't the only ones who have good, thought out ideas and conversations, much to the argument of others around. I have had some of my best conversations with non-believers where as Xian's like to be put in a little box away from them because they are afraid to let them see that they aren't perfect and don't have all the answers after all.

2 - Because sometimes you get a few flamers, but sometimes you also get people who are genuinly interested in what we have to say and might be looking for answers themselves. It would be wrong of us to push them away. Did God push us away when we were horrid swine who only looked to ourselves and lived for ourselves?

3. Because it would make people like PreacherFergy, blackwasp, and bretnolan mad and hopefully stop posting all together in a part of the forum they are against and only constantly whine about to people who come here to discuss. It would take them out of their little self build comfort zone a little more and maybe see that there is more to life than inside their little box of safety that they hide behind.

Personally, I think the whole forum should be open to everyone. What kind of message is sent when someone who is an non-believer comes here and sees "You can't chat here cause you aren't saved." That's total c***. "You can't come to church cause you're not a Xian!" "You can't follow me around and watch my miracles because you didn't believe me the first time I said I was God!" Even His own disciples doubted Him!

Granted, there is a place for discussion and a place for debate and it should be made known in the rules, but I think the place needs to be open for everyone, Xian and non, to chat freely about issues of faith. The message that a lot of people send here is that we are better than everyone else. The fact is that in my years preaching and living out on my own, I found more help and security in those who wern't saved because of that fact. Because we aren't perfect and we can call ourselves saved and still make mistakes or be selfish.

Yeh, the world may have this mega revival, but I have yet to see the masses who step up getting saved.

CJ

 

[brettnolan]

MOVE IT PLEEEEAAASE!!!

I love nadro, and his opinions are excellent and well thought out, And I always venture out of the Xians only section anymore for a few reasons.

1 - Because Xians aren't the only ones who have good, thought out ideas and conversations, much to the argument of others around. I have had some of my best conversations with non-believers where as Xian's like to be put in a little box away from them because they are afraid to let them see that they aren't perfect and don't have all the answers after all.[\QOUTE]

True, I said rarely, not never. Unfortunately and undoubtedly my faith, and probably many others' is not as strong as yours and needs time away from non-Christian influences to grow.

2 - Because sometimes you get a few flamers, but sometimes you also get people who are genuinly interested in what we have to say and might be looking for answers themselves. It would be wrong of us to push them away. Did God push us away when we were horrid swine who only looked to ourselves and lived for ourselves?

There are more flamers than geniunely interested people and they are more than a distraction. They are not being pushed away just because there is a separate section for just Christians. There is a section where ALL can congregate. This argument is just as valid as Martha Burke trying to get women into a PRIVATE men's club. There are plenty of PUBLIC areas. Why CAN'T we have our own section AND a section for all? I doubt that the non-Christians are out there whining and crying cause they can't get into the Christians-only section, or their local church, or Youth for Christ, etc., etc.

3. Because it would make people like PreacherFergy, blackwasp, and bretnolan mad and hopefully stop posting all together in a part of the forum they are against and only constantly whine about to people who come here to discuss. It would take them out of their little self build comfort zone a little more and maybe see that there is more to life than inside their little box of safety that they hide behind.

Terra, I probably agree with YOU more than either of these guys. This sounds like you haven't read ANY posts by myself or blackwasp. I almost always point out that I listen to secular music when posting in a new thread if I have an opinion counter to secular music. Please get your clue back out.

Granted, there is a place for discussion and a place for debate and it should be made known in the rules, but I think the place needs to be open for everyone, Xian and non, to chat freely about issues of faith. The message that a lot of people send here is that we are better than everyone else. The fact is that in my years preaching and living out on my own, I found more help and security in those who wern't saved because of that fact. Because we aren't perfect and we can call ourselves saved and still make mistakes or be selfish.
CJ

Unfortunately, people can't even follow the rules in the Christians-only forum, let alone those who have a total disregard for rules anyway. And what percentage of the people visiting (or members of) this site do you think have actually read the rules?

Sometimes, Terra, you are dangerously close, in my opinion, to doing the same thing PreacherFergy does. In this case, accusing me of placing myself in a safe spiritual box and not living in the real world. My best friends are non-believers, I can get more than my share of "worldly" influence from them, I don't need, and shouldn't have to go looking for punishment EVERYWHERE I go.

I came to CF looking for CHRISTIAN fellowship, not to constantly debate and defend my faith. Not everyone uses the forum the same way you do and shouldn't be required to do so.

 

[blackwasp]

3. Because it would make people like PreacherFergy, blackwasp, and bretnolan mad and hopefully stop posting all together in a part of the forum they are against and only constantly whine about to people who come here to discuss. It would take them out of their little self build comfort zone a little more and maybe see that there is more to life than inside their little box of safety that they hide behind.CJ

Now wait just a cotton-picking minute. If you took the time to look at any posts of mine in the Secular Forum outside of the ones where Fergy is attacked you would realize that I am all for secular music. If anything, I don't believe in christian 'entertainment' music. However, because I support posts that are based on scripture rather than ones that flame, I'm stuck in the christian bubble? Please take a look at my other posts in CF before making a sweeping generalization of my beliefs.

 

[ps139]

MOVE IT PLEEEEAAASE!!!

1 - Because Xians aren't the only ones who have good, thought out ideas and conversations, much to the argument of others around. I have had some of my best conversations with non-believers where as Xian's like to be put in a little box away from them because they are afraid to let them see that they aren't perfect and don't have all the answers after all.

I havent seen any posters on this music forum claim that they are perfect or have all the answers. Christians can post in any part of the forum they want. I tend to get headaches in areas like GA, politics, science etc - here it is a nice place to relax without dealing with that stuff.

2 - Because sometimes you get a few flamers, but sometimes you also get people who are genuinly interested in what we have to say and might be looking for answers themselves. It would be wrong of us to push them away. Did God push us away when we were horrid swine who only looked to ourselves and lived for ourselves?

Whoever is geniunely looking for answers would probably come to a different forum than the music one.

3

. Because it would make people like PreacherFergy, blackwasp, and bretnolan mad and hopefully stop posting all together in a part of the forum they are against and only constantly whine about to people who come here to discuss. It would take them out of their little self build comfort zone a little more and maybe see that there is more to life than inside their little box of safety that they hide behind.

Thats uncalled for, and no reason to vote a certain way.

Personally, I think the whole forum should be open to everyone. What kind of message is sent when someone who is an non-believer comes here and sees "You can't chat here cause you aren't saved." That's total c***. "You can't come to church cause you're not a Xian!" "You can't follow me around and watch my miracles because you didn't believe me the first time I said I was God!" Even His own disciples doubted Him!

To facilitate conversation among Christians, where a common worldview is assumed, half the forum is Christian only. If it weren't I probably wouldnt be here, you'd never get anywhere in discussions because you'd constantly have to deal with "prove that God exists," "you believe in fantasy" blah blah blah.

 

[ps139]

One more point, its not like this is the only forum on the internet where secular music is discusses. A member of CF can be a member of another forum if he pleases. If this forum is Christian only it isnt restricting any nonChristians from talking about music, as there are hundreds of music forums they can join.

 

[* kittie *]

MOVE IT PLEEEEAAASE!!!

I love nadro, and his opinions are excellent and well thought out, And I always venture out of the Xians only section anymore for a few reasons.

1 - Because Xians aren't the only ones who have good, thought out ideas and conversations, much to the argument of others around. I have had some of my best conversations with non-believers...

2 - Because sometimes you get a few flamers, but sometimes you also get people who are genuinly interested in what we have to say and might be looking for answers themselves. It would be wrong of us to push them away. Did God push us away when we were horrid swine who only looked to ourselves and lived for ourselves?

i agree with that ^.

however, in the case that the forum is moved, there should be rules.
actually, even if it isn't, there still should be rules. i see arguing around that..hmm...shouldn't be there. i've gotten headaches from those.

 

[peanutbutter12]

Terra, I probably agree with YOU more than either of these guys. This sounds like you haven't read ANY posts by myself or blackwasp. I almost always point out that I listen to secular music when posting in a new thread if I have an opinion counter to secular music. Please get your clue back out.

I was going by what was posted in the past few threads. Ya'll wanna keep it "specifically for Xians" when it should be for everyone. I guess then that only people who have memorized the Bible can come to church.

It's my job to come dangerousely close to lines. It ticks ppl off and makes them think for a moment. I appriciate that people agree with me sometimes when I say something. It shows they are using their brains instead of just doing what the church tells them to do and what not to do. Too often does a church mislead its people. I've seen it too many times to be able to put up with it. They follow blindly because if the pastor said it, it must be right.

And blackwasp, I was under the impression you were taking sides for a while with Fergy. Please let me know if I took that the wrong way.

CJ

 

[* kittie *]

It's my job to come dangerousely close to lines. It ticks ppl off and makes them think for a moment.

CJ

haha you are so cool.
I like it when I see people think for themselves, instead of rely on what he or she said.

Now I bet some people are going to jump and speak against that, but you all need to remember that this doesn't mean that we're ignoring the Bible. And really, we're not stupid people who live mindlessly either. We do search things out.

What's sad isn't people listening to secular music.
It's sad that people have put up these limitations that aren't there. In my personal experience, I have found that when I live like that, I limit God. And really, all my belief becomes then is...religion.
Search things out for yourself. Until then, let's not criticize others.

 

[DMBfanLongliveStrongBad!]

yeah, i feel bad that non christians can't post here, but i just can't stand the environment of the "co-ed" forums. I just don't want every thread here to turn into a theology debate, rather than a place where we can talk about music we like, or get other christian's opinions of what music we should listen to from a biblical standpoint.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

I don't think the Secular music forum belongs in the Christian only section at all. The argument that we get other christians views on what music we "should" listen to does nothing for me, becasue this is a forum about SECULAR music. Either we decide we don't listen to secular music at all (Like Preacher Fergie, respect to him for having the currage of his convictions, although I don't share his conclusions), or we discuss secular music opensly like everyone else.

I am made unesay by the "closset ourselves from none christians" argument as well. Christ would not approve of such an attitude in my opinion. He didn't avoid those who denied him, so we certainly have no right to either. If mixing with those who do not share your faith taxes it, grow stronger in your faith.

I hear people metnion that the open forums get flamy, i am surprised as the ones I have frequented (Games and Social science) don't tend to. There are people there that I respect greatly (Jamz667 and feral for example) that I would love to discuss music with as well. I can understand people not enjoying being attacked for their faith, but as good christians it is encumbant upon us to be open about it is it not?

Well thats how I feel, others may disagree and that is their right, but please consider my words then make up your own mind.

Ghost

 

[theFijian]

Is there any particular reason why there isn't a Music forum in the Entertainment part of All Members?

cheers,
Andy

 

[brettnolan]

Ya'll wanna keep it "specifically for Xians" when it should be for everyone. I guess then that only people who have memorized the Bible can come to church.

I offered an alternate solution...add a music forum to the entertainment section of the open forums and leave this one here.

It's my job to come dangerousely close to lines. It ticks ppl off and makes them think for a moment. I appriciate that people agree with me sometimes when I say something. It shows they are using their brains instead of just doing what the church tells them to do and what not to do. Too often does a church mislead its people. I've seen it too many times to be able to put up with it. They follow blindly because if the pastor said it, it must be right.

I have no problem with this, but I must admit I was quite ticked when I was accused of attacking the forum itself. I felt it was unfair and unfounded considering my posting history in this forum.

I still feel this forum provides a service that would not be available in the open forums. That is to offer a place where Christians can talk about "secular" music from a Christian perspective. That will be COMPLETELY lost in the open forums.

Some of the threads I have started concern why Christians don't like or don't listen to Christian music. They were not meant to condemn anyone for listening to secular music, I'm only trying to increase my understanding as to why Christians don't listen to BOTH. In any case, there is no where else to pose those questions and expect an intelligent answer.

And blackwasp, I was under the impression you were taking sides for a while with Fergy. Please let me know if I took that the wrong way.

CJ

blackwasp WAS defending Fergy on a specific issue. Namely, does a Christian have a right to judge behavior of others? I understand the point he is making, but I think in the context of defending Fergy, it gets lost. He is not defending Fergie's viewpoint, I don't think, that secular music is evil.

 

[Larry]

I tend to get headaches in areas like GA, politics, science etc - here it is a nice place to relax without dealing with that stuff.

The thing is, arguments and heated debates are not limited to the open areas. There's just as many of those type exchanges in the Christian Only forums. I see this happening in all kinds of Christian Only forums. The P/R/E and the Creation Science & Theistic Evolution forums come to mind right now.

Whoever is geniunely looking for answers would probably come to a different forum than the music one.

Precisely. And, whoever is genuinely looking for a doctrinal debate, or to debate the existance of God, or to challenge Christianity, would probably come to a different forum than the secular music forum.

Take a look at this forum. How many heated arguments do you see? Except for the few which were based on secular music in general, hardly none. Why do you think that is? Is it because we are all in agreement and all like the exact same music, just because we are all Christians? I think not. Like I mentioned, there are all kinds of arguments and heated debates going on in the Christian Only forums. So why is it that we don't see too many heated arguments in this forum? It could be that what I stated in my earlier post is true. Music is universal, spanning all barriers - religeous, political and cultural.

 

[brettnolan]

Either we decide we don't listen to secular music at all (Like Preacher Fergie, respect to him for having the currage of his convictions, although I don't share his conclusions), or we discuss secular music opensly like everyone else.

Discussions about whether or not you should listen to it, will not be found in other forums, the open ones in particular. Not biblically discussed in any case.

I am made unesay by the "closset ourselves from none christians" argument as well. Christ would not approve of such an attitude in my opinion. He didn't avoid those who denied him, so we certainly have no right to either. If mixing with those who do not share your faith taxes it, grow stronger in your faith.

I think I made the point about needing to be stronger in one's faith. However, you won't grow your faith when constantly surrounded by influences (people, music, whatever) that are opposed to it.

I hear people metnion that the open forums get flamy, i am surprised as the ones I have frequented (Games and Social science) don't tend to. There are people there that I respect greatly (Jamz667 and feral for example) that I would love to discuss music with as well. I can understand people not enjoying being attacked for their faith, but as good christians it is encumbant upon us to be open about it is it not?

Try the General Theology forum, or even the Creation/Theistic Evolution forum on the Christian-only side. We poor, stupid, naive, YECS apparently haven't the mental capacity to even be on the internet in the first place.

Create a new music forum in the open section to discuss music with those guys.

We are supposed to be able to give an answer for our hope, but everyone needs a recharge, or a safe haven. Didn't Jesus go off by himself to pray? Didn't he likely spend time with only his disciples?