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I can speak from experience....I left God and followed another path...but I realised that I wasnt happy in that path and after awhile I found Him again and have never been happier.
I can speak from experience....I left God and followed another path...but I realised that I wasnt happy in that path and after awhile I found Him again and have never been happier.
Well, exactly!I can speak from experience....I left God and followed another path...but I realised that I wasnt happy in that path and after awhile I found Him again and have never been happier.
Hey I can relate to that.I can speak from experience....I left God and followed another path...but I realised that I wasnt happy in that path and after awhile I found Him again and have never been happier.
Accept God's testimony? Which interpretation are you referring to?
It would appear, many Christians perceive different messages from God and hence, so many different denominations of Christianity that disagree on many points.
You've hit the nail on the head about the effect of prayerful Scripture reading, regularly done.God is part of the reason I am more happy....also reading the Scripture makes me feel content which no other book has done..
Daay-ummm!!! Did you get all of that from the few words I said? Seriously bro; I think you are reading waaaay too far into what I am saying. I think it was Sigmund Freud who said; sometimes a cigar is just a cigarYou act like being an atheist is hard for you. It is almost as if you want me to believe that you are an atheist reluctantly or that you are an atheist because you are compelled to be one.
I do not buy that honestly. I think you like being an atheist. I think you like what being an atheist entails.
What experiences are you talking about?
Because God knows the sins of humans. When they follow the false gods and idols made by man they also are following their own earthly desires and sinful natures. This breeds sin and corrupts the world. God hates sin and knows of its destruction.Why would God expect people of another religion to follow his rules?
God did take judgements Himself. But there were times when He used His people as well. They were the instrument of His judgemnet. It was specific and it was to do with the Isreaites taking over the land they occupied. The cannaites had become totally corrupted and God judged them according to the sin they lived in. They were cut out from the land like a cancer that had infested a body to stop it from spreading.Why would God need to have his people to do his killing? Why cant God just kill them himself?
You speak like they were poor innocent lumps of meat that didn't know any better. All people knew that there was a living God. Some choose to reject this and live according to what they wanted and worship their won desires. God had warned them and in some cases it they even had seen the power of God in the amazing things that happened. In some cases He waited 100s of years until the right time had passed for it to fully take affect and that every last person had the chance to repent. In others cases people did repent and cities were saved. So God was patient and he was qualified in His Judgements. But there had to be judgement just like we have penalties for wrong doing today. But God is all knowing so He knows exactly what those people will have done in the end so know one is being judged unfairly. What was done is exactly what was needed to be done.They worshipped another God; what did he expect?
The laws of God are written on everyone's hearts. Those people would know even if they had never seen the laws of God. In some way or form they would know that they breached something and went against what was right and just. It may have been by feeling a sense of uneasiness or in their conscience. But doing wrong against what is natural can be known even by natives who have never seen civilization. When they kill they know it is wrong in some way. When they take they know it is wrong. What God did was put it in writing with the 10 commandments. But there was a simple message which was repent and turn to the one true living God. This message was known and spread throughout the world for people to realize. Many times the Canaanites and others made challenges about their gods being greater and they had been shown that the God of the Israelites had true power and authority.His laws are for those who worship him! You cant expect repentance and obedience of his laws from those who worship other Gods!
Again; if they don't know God, how are they supposed to follow his rules?Because God knows the sins of humans. When they follow the false gods and idols made by man they also are following their own earthly desires and sinful natures.
But when he uses people, it gives the appearance of evil men using God to justify their atrocious acts; something that continues even to this day. When God uses people to do his killing; the entire religion loses credibility. IMO if God wanted those people dead, he should have done it himself.God did take judgements Himself. But there were times when He used His people as well. They were the instrument of His judgment.
Why did the Israelites need to steal their land? Why didn't God send them to land that was not occupied?It was specific and it was to do with the Isreaites taking over the land they occupied.
No! Rather than dehumanizing these people; I speak like they human beings whose lives are as valuable as mine and yours.You speak like they were poor innocent lumps of meat that didn't know any better.
Typical Christian claim. Your God's rules are not written on my heart; I will bet there are countless people of other religions who will confirm your God's rules aren't written on their hearts, and I will bet these victim of slaughter will confirm your God's rules weren't written on their hearts as well.The laws of God are written on everyone's hearts.
Do you think the Israelites knew what was right and just when they were killing innocent babies? Probably not because they did it anywayThose people would know even if they had never seen the laws of God. In some way or form they would know that they breached something and went against what was right and just. It may have been by feeling a sense of uneasiness or in their conscience. But doing wrong against what is natural can be known even by natives who have never seen civilization.
All they have to do is follow God and the rest will come. They knew of God they just chose not to follow Him.Again; if they don't know God, how are they supposed to follow his rules?
Well yes when the allied forces attacked Hitler is a bit the same. But in the case of back then the Canaanites had got to a point where they were evil and practiced all sorts like child sacrifice, sexual immorality. They had been warned and in their case God had waited 100s of years for them to repent. God even foretold this to Abraham that the Israelites take the land of the Canaanites 100s of years beforehand. If you look at what the people do in the name of God nowadays there is always a man made motive involved. Its mixed with hatred and revenge.But when he uses people, it gives the appearance of evil men using God to justify their atrocious acts; something that continues even to this day. When God uses people to do his killing; the entire religion loses credibility. IMO if God wanted those people dead, he should have done it himself.
The land was promised to the Israelites by God. This was the promised land. It was all part of the Covenant with God and that lead to Gods people becoming a great and Holy nation which would bring the prophesied Messiah to save mankind.Why did the Israelites need to steal their land? Why didn't God send them to land that was not occupied?
Yes but its easy to inject whatever feeling you may have right now from what you know today and how you see things now. We weren't there and we are looking back on a situation. You have already taken a position thats its wrong because you already are skeptical about God. But you dont know if those people were like the ISIS or Hitler and were just bad and evil and people you wanted stopped. They are described as being people that the land vomited out and thats how bad they were perceived. But you will take a sympathetic position because you already have something against God. So you will side with anyone who has been treated bad by God in your eyes. Yet we can easily feel justified and righteous about wiping out the bad guy like terrorists who destroy our way of life.No! Rather than dehumanizing these people; I speak like they human beings whose lives are as valuable as mine and yours.
This is just something that I believe and a Christian will believe. That we all seem to know the basic things of right and wrong. It doesn't take any particular religion of code to realize this. Its just something in us. All other religions dont necessarily have a totally different set of rights and wrongs. We all have a similar basic idea. Thats because its the same basic idea in all of us.Typical Christian claim. Your God's rules are not written on my heart; I will bet there are countless people of other religions who will confirm your God's rules aren't written on their hearts, and I will bet these victim of slaughter will confirm your God's rules weren't written on their hearts as well.
The Israelites had trouble understanding this sometimes and felt bad as well. But they had come to trust God and had seen when they disobeyed him there were consequences. This was a divine commandment from God so they seen it as something their God knew about and it was part of a greater thing they didn't always understand. Back in those times of war it was brutal and babies, women and children were killed. We can look back with our modern day values and say that was shocking. But back then it was a part of war. But then its easy to sit on the end of a button and send a missile from a distance compared and feel detached compared to hand to hand combat and not always see the carnage as apposed to being face to face. But all had to be destroyed and as sin was like a cancer and spreads. The times when they didn't kill all the children grew and took vengeance later. The babies were actually saved from a life of sin and sacrifice as any baby would automatically be saved and be with God.Do you think the Israelites knew what was right and just when they were killing innocent babies? Probably not because they did it anyway
The allied forces didnt fight Hitler because God told them to, they fought him because Hitler declared war on them. Hitler declared war on England, Russia, and the USA; and when we defeated him we did not commit genocide against the Nazis, we controlled the country and made them our friends. I think Abraham Lincoln said it best when he asked: Have I not annihilated my enemies by making them my friends?Well yes when the allied forces attacked Hitler is a bit the same.
When I look at what those men of war did back then, its got man made motive written all over it.If you look at what the people do in the name of God nowadays there is always a man made motive involved. Its mixed with hatred and revenge.
I know. Why did he have to promise land that was occupied by someone else?The land was promised to the Israelites by God. This was the promised land.
I agree! But I will also add; this similar basic idea that is inside all of us seems to change over time. Human sacrifices used to be standard procedure for religious purposes before; now its an atrocity. Slavery, rape and genocide during war was accepted by everybody as just what happens during war; now everybodys perception of basic right and wrong condemns these actions. It seems to me if morality were objective and Gods laws never changed; this basic right and wrong inside of us wouldnt change either! But it does. What does this tell you?This is just something that I believe and a Christian will believe. That we all seem to know the basic things of right and wrong. It doesn't take any particular religion of code to realize this. Its just something in us. All other religions dont necessarily have a totally different set of rights and wrongs. We all have a similar basic idea. Thats because its the same basic idea in all of us.
All this was said about the same God who did these things so you have to decide what sort of God He was.
the Lord is slow to anger and great in mercy (Psalm 145:8). He is long suffering , not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
You shall not hate your brother in your heart . You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself . And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself (Leviticus 19:17-18,33-34; cf. Romans 13:9).
love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18)
So how does an evil God state things like this at the same time. Some are mentioned only pages from the supposed evil destruction that God is suppose to have committed on people. Why would that be , that is like two different Gods in the same story. What is going on here.
In case you didn't hear me before, Love is the source of moral obligation, if you love perfectly, you will be perfectly moral...
The next time someone presents you with a moral quandry, tell them well, if I were loving my neighbor and myself and love and hold myself accountable to God, then say what you would do and decide about the moral problem. by asking yourself, is this what I'd do if I love perfectly, I would, (then tell them, those who presented the moral problem)...
God Bless!
The allied forces didnt fight Hitler because God told them to, they fought him because Hitler declared war on them. Hitler declared war on England, Russia, and the USA; and when we defeated him we did not commit genocide against the Nazis, we controlled the country and made them our friends. I think Abraham Lincoln said it best when he asked: Have I not annihilated my enemies by making them my friends?
Well you can make those judgements because your God. The difference is the Canaanites were corrupted to the point where they were living depraved lives. Sacrificing children and committing all sorts of immoral acts. If they were around today the US and allied forces would be the first shouting out they need to be stopped. But man has no real authority compared to God. There are many wars that are non religious that are claimed to be in the name of good. There are many actions that people claim to be acting for whats right and they have evil selfish motives hidden behind their secret agendas, look at the US and the Iraqi war that was based on a lie. Look at the Vietnam war.When I look at what those men of war did back then, its got man made motive written all over it.
Maybe it was because this was the right place where Jesus would come. Maybe this was the only place where the prophesies would be fulfilled. Maybe things would have not gone the way they did. Partly because the Canaanites were corrupt and needed to be taken out. It wasnt easy Joshua had to defeat many Kings against the odds. God did some pretty amazing things back then.I know. Why did he have to promise land that was occupied by someone else?
[/quote]No I think killing and rape have always been wrong. When they killed in war they may have did it for different reasons or meanings but it was still killing in a justified way for them Whether it was right or wrong was another thing. But they just didn't go around killing for no good reason. Its all the same whether you kill with an axe or a bullet in war for land or oil or religion. If you rape its still wrong even if you state you can by your religion, which is untrue by the way. The religions that claim this it doesn't say they can rape. They have taken things and twisted that. They know its wrong because they run and hide when they do it.I agree! But I will also add; this similar basic idea that is inside all of us seems to change over time. Human sacrifices used to be standard procedure for religious purposes before; now its an atrocity. Slavery, rape and genocide during war was accepted by everybody as just what happens during war; now everybodys perception of basic right and wrong condemns these actions. It seems to me if morality were objective and Gods laws never changed; this basic right and wrong inside of us wouldnt change either! But it does. What does this tell you?
The thing is the God of love and peace is coming from the same people who are writing the stories about the God of judgement. And its not a God of war as I said because it is measured. There are many times when the same thing could have happened but the people were spared because they repented. Just think of it this way. If there was a God and there was good and evil do you think there would be any judgement and punishment. Why do we judge and punish. Someone could look from a distance at us and say they are brutal for blowing up all those poor people because they said they were bad. Or executing all those people because they did something wrong.Well you have to remember who you are talking to here. I do not believe God is evil, I dont even think he exist! I believe the men who did this were and they just claimed God told them to do it in order to get their sheep/followers to support them. This is nothing new, and it continues even to this day.
As I mentioned before about men of war worshiping a God of war and men of peace worshiping a God of peace; when you have men of war and men of peace both making up claims about God that support their individual agendas, you get the appearance of two different Gods in the same story.
God is Love, and Love is the source of morality, If you loved perfectly then you'd be perfectly moral, and could probably know and define what morality is and would show and display it through your actions and your "walk" (Like J.C. did) and since Love (Godly, not worldly love) is God, and love is the source of morality, then God is the source of morality, right?
God Bless!
In a word, if they don't believe in God, then they better be following love, my answer to your question is "Love"...
God Bless!
In case you didn't hear me before, Love is the source of moral obligation, if you love perfectly, you will be perfectly moral...
The next time someone presents you with a moral quandry, tell them well, if I were loving my neighbor and myself and love and hold myself accountable to God, then say what you would do and decide about the moral problem. by asking yourself, is this what I'd do if I love perfectly, I would, (then tell them, those who presented the moral problem)...
God Bless!
And if they come to a different solution to that moral quandry, tell them, well, you just are not loving perfectly. If you were, you would have come to the same conclusion as I did, because I have access to a source of perfect morality that is perfectly loving.
But that is simply not the way that humans work. Just take a look at the last few pages here. One side is steadfastly defending behaviour that the other side just cannot accept as "moral". And they defend it by attributing it to this "perfect love".
Say for yourself: is it a sign of perfect love to eradicate a whole people, regardless of what "they" might have done?
And if they come to a different solution to that moral quandry, tell them, well, you just are not loving perfectly. If you were, you would have come to the same conclusion as I did, because I have access to a source of perfect morality that is perfectly loving.
But that is simply not the way that humans work. Just take a look at the last few pages here. One side is steadfastly defending behaviour that the other side just cannot accept as "moral". And they defend it by attributing it to this "perfect love".
Say for yourself: is it a sign of perfect love to eradicate a whole people, regardless of what "they" might have done?
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