Thanks that was a good post. I think the next step as you proceed is to look up the various Greek and Hebrew words via a Lexicon or if you are fluent in either language go to the source. I did so years ago, and will revisit as well.Does this give you any clarity to your understanding?
I tell you the truth, this post will be time stamped today!Lol, very simple...
couch theologians always amuses me
Indeed man does have an advantage over the animals and probably why you ignored this:so if you want to keep trying to give man an advantage over the animals, as far as his existence is concerned, then you are totally welcome to go against what is written in scripture.
Now certainly, I hope "Fluffy" and "Scruffy" have their place in the many Mansions in Heaven. .
Thanks for the reminder. It will be a sad day for the family. Our Yellow Lab of 12 years passed away last month. However, our rescue dog a German Shepherd-Basset mix will keep our 'spirits' (or souls? or both?--LOL had to get that in) cheered.stepping in for one second to say please be kind to fluffy and scruffy on National Pet Day and all our pets that love us
1. Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, “I have no delight in them”;Would you quote the next sentence in your text?
8 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher.
“Everything is meaningless!”
Your quoted text is part of the meaningless comment, so it can not be trusted to be an accurate telling of the physical and spiritual life in a person.
no, i didn't ignore that, (and thanks for throwing me under the bus! )Indeed man does have an advantage over the animals and probably why you ignored this:
Genesis 1: NKJV
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Now certainly, I hope "Fluffy" and "Scruffy" have their place in the many Mansions in Heaven. However, we were created distinct and very special from all other creations who breathed air too.
Yes you are arguing from a book of sayings/poetry as opposed to the direct words of God in Genesis chapter 1.no, i didn't ignore that, (and thanks for throwing me under the bus! )
the verse is clear, that:
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20(NKJV)
19For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity.
20All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.
so when it comes to the life of man verses the life of animals, there's no difference.
it's all about context!
Yes you are arguing from a book of sayings/poetry as opposed to the direct words of God in Genesis chapter 1.
And I forgive you Bonzo, whatever that means, anyway.Hey Bonzo, if you would take the time to read the thread, or trace my comments back to the original post,before you make comment, you would inevitably find, it was not about what Jesus said to the Criminal on the cross as He was dying.
Maybe a little Christian understanding would help, before condemning a Brother.
But I forgive you anyway.
the verse is clear, that:
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20(NKJV)
19For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity.
20All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.
so when it comes to the life of man verses the life of animals, there's no difference.
You think the life of animals the same as men. If you would only read the next verse from the one you quoted, you would see scripture does not teach so.i just see eccl 3:19 being consistent with ezek 18:4 and heb 9:27!
You do know that scripture does quote secular writers.and that little old verse of 2 timothy 3:16 comes to mind also.
I guess that means you don't have to explicitly say what day you wrote what you wrote, or say what you say.I tell you the truth, this post will be time stamped today!
I quoted verse 8 that says meaningless explicitly, so yes it does say it. Now other translations say senseless, pointless, fleeting, useless, for nothing, futile and a lot say vanity, but vanity does not make sense.At no point does the text say that scripture is meaningless or that the text itself is meaningless.
by your response, i see that you are not following what i'm saying.You think the life of animals the same as men. If you would only read the next verse from the one you quoted, you would see scripture does not teach so.
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
And, if you read more of the book you would see further contradiction to your idea in chapter 12 where the "Teacher" is addressing the death of people.
And, what would be the point of following God if as chapter 9 teaches the destiny of all is the same, whether good or wicked? We know the rest of scripture does not agree with this.Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 9:2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.
As it is with the good,
so with the sinful;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them.
3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.
It should be obvious that the "Teacher" is describing the physical life and physical death, the mentality of worldly thinking, that there is no life besides the physical. But if you look at the closing statement of Ecclesiastes, you read a different teaching that we should fear God and keep his commands because he will judge us.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
You do know that scripture does quote secular writers.
So to be exact, not all of scripture is God's word.
But, sometimes it is useful to present a wrong idea to emphasize the right idea.
And so, all scripture is useful for teaching, even when incorrect teachings are quoted.
1. Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, “I have no delight in them”;Would you quote the next sentence in your text?
8 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher.
“Everything is meaningless!”
Your quoted text is part of the meaningless comment, so it can not be trusted to be an accurate telling of the physical and spiritual life in a person.
I quoted verse 8 that says meaningless explicitly,
Much of Ecclesiastes is as I described a secular view of life. This is done to point out the futility of such a viewpoint.
no, i didn't ignore that, (and thanks for throwing me under the bus! )
the verse is clear, that:
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20(NKJV)
19For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity.
20All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.
so when it comes to the life of man verses the life of animals, there's no difference.
it's all about context!
The point of this thread is to ponder what is unique of man, a spiritual part different from our physical side, a quality that makes us made in the image of God and how he personally breathed his life/spirit into Adam.by your response, i see that you are not following what i'm saying.
let's take your statement "You think the life of animals the same as men".
what i'm saying is that, from the text, that man and beast have the same type of existence!
they are made of flesh and need air to breath, that's all.
and you said "And, what would be the point of following God if as chapter 9 teaches the destiny of all is the same, whether good or wicked?"
the verse simply points out that when we die on this earth we return to the earth, whether man or beast.
we know that man can be resurrected and that's the point!
Maybe you should refute a new argument with a new argument instead of repeating your previous opinion to a new argument. It might reduce the confusion here. Sorry, I thought you were trying to refute a new argument.