The Solid Sky Expanse and Dome of Biblical Cosmology and the Ancient Near

[JAL]

Newton showed that Kepler's Laws were universally valid, and could also explain the motion of comets, moons, and apples falling from a tree. He didn't like the notion of action at a distance, and inferred God just set up the rules and then acted directly to make them work.

Newton;s three laws of motion and his principle of universal gravitation sufficed to regulate the new cosmos, but only, Newton believed, with the help of God. Gravity, he more than once hinted, was direct divine action, as were all forces for order and vitality. Absolute space, for Newton, was essential, because space was the “sensorium of God,” and the divine abode must necessarily be the ultimate coordinate system. Finally, Newton’s analysis of the mutual perturbations of the planets caused by their individual gravitational fields predicted the natural collapse of the solar system unless God acted to set things right again. […]

The final touch to the Newtonian edifice was provided by Pierre-Simon, marquis de Laplace, whose masterly Traité de mécanique céleste (1798–1827; Celestial Mechanics) systematized everything that had been done in celestial mechanics under Newton’s inspiration. Laplace went beyond Newton by showing that the perturbations of the planetary orbits caused by the interactions of planetary gravitation are in fact periodic and that the solar system is, therefore, stable, requiring no divine intervention.
Did Sir Isaac Newton think that gravity was a divine force? - Quora

The key thing is, Newton's theory of gravitation works, no matter what your beliefs might be. Personally, I think God's constant attention to the universe is what makes it exist and work. But the theory works for an atheist just as well as it works for me.

Not sure what your point is. Obviously SOMETHING works, I mean, the stars aren't dispersing wildly, right? But as I said, Newton realized it's not "gravity" that's working. More likely it's the hand of God. Your post seems to merely reiterate my point, in a more verbose manner.

 

[The Barbarian]

Not sure what your point is. Obviously SOMETHING works, I mean, the stars aren't dispersing wildly, right? But as I said, Newton realized it's not "gravity" that's working. More likely it's the hand of God. Your post seems to merely reiterate my point, in a more verbose manner.

The key is that, even if God is directly organizing every single particle and motion in the universe, one only needs gravity and inertia to describe the motions of bodies in the solar system. Laplace told Napoleon that he didn't need God in his equations, which is true even if Laplace believed in God.

 

[JAL]

The key is that, even if God is directly organizing every single particle and motion in the universe, one only needs gravity and inertia to describe the motions of bodies in the solar system. Laplace told Napoleon that he didn't need God in his equations, which is true even if Laplace believed in God.

Sure. Equations have numbers on both sides of the equals-sign. Putting the word "God" on either side wouldn't be terribly productive. However, if we want to comprehend cosmology from a metaphysical point of view - to understand reality as it really is - then in my opinion we probably need to conceptually replace "gravity" with "the hand of God", indeed the physical hand of God, in my view.

 

[The Barbarian]

Sure. Equations have numbers on both sides of the equals-sign. Putting the word "God" on either side wouldn't be terribly productive. However, if we want to comprehend cosmology from a metaphysical point of view - to understand reality as it really is - then in my opinion we probably need to conceptually replace "gravity" with "the hand of God", indeed the physical hand of God, in my view.

Which is the non-overlapping magisteria thing. NASA doesn't have to consider God to get the job done when navigating the solar system. And a believer doesn't have to consider gravity and inertia when contemplating His creation.

But I can tell you, there are times when I can do both at the same time, and it's an epiphany. So there is that.

 

[Job 33:6]

Not sure the verses you cited really support the notion of a solid sky, though I understand how someone with that worldview might read them like that.

22 Now over the heads of the living beings there was something like an expanse, like the awesome gleam of crystal, spread out over their heads. 23 Under the expanse their wings were stretched out straight, one toward the other; each one also had two wings covering its body on the one side and on the other. 24 And I also heard the sound of their wings, like the sound of abundant waters as they went, like the voice of the Almighty, a sound of a crowd like the sound of an army camp; whenever they stopped, they let down their wings. 25 And a voice came from above the expanse that was over their heads; whenever they stood still, they let down their wings.

26 Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. NASB

they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.

How we interpret the throne room of God requires a few points of understanding first.

God is not beholden to His creation, though its boundaries and laws were set by Him. The interpenetration of the highest heaven and the material world is a mix of dimensions that do not have to correspond with ideas of up and down or our dim comprehensions of the rules of the game. This same transcendence makes revelations of God much more mysterious than many would like them to be. If we get to see God we are interacting with a great cloud of unknowing that would explode our minds beyond all our capacity for reason were we truly to let it in. Such an experience would silence all dissent and possibly all conversation, what could be worth saying after that.

The NASB translation is more honest because it says the guy saw something like this or that not something that was readily accessible to worldly minds.

It is possible God created the entire universe in a goldfish bowl whose boundaries continually elude us. If the James Webb telescope has added any value to this conversation then perhaps it is to suggest that the glass is even further back than previously expected as we are seeing fully formed mature galaxies in the gaps between the stars where we had expected to stare at the hardly formed versions from the beginning of the universe, just after the "Big Bang" (if indeed that ever occurred at all).

Its not really a question of if God created the entire universe in a fishbowl, so much as it is that in ancient times, this is how the cosmos was interpreted, visually. Just as God did not create a geocentric solar system, yet this is how people in the past visually interpreted it. And with that, some of these ideas of an ancient cosmological perspective, have simply made their way into the Bible. Which is why the Bible says things that make it sound as if the universe is inside a fishbowl, or an inside-out fishbowl where the atmosphere is protected by a solid sky from "the waters above".

 

[mindlight]

Its not really a question of if God created the entire universe in a fishbowl, so much as it is that in ancient times, this is how the cosmos was interpreted, visually. Just as God did not create a geocentric solar system, yet this is how people in the past visually interpreted it. And with that, some of these ideas of an ancient cosmological perspective, have simply made their way into the Bible. Which is why the Bible says things that make it sound as if the universe is inside a fishbowl, or an inside-out fishbowl where the atmosphere is protected by a solid sky from "the waters above".

Part of the problem here is with such comparative religion comments. People find that some ancient religions had a dome idea and marry the biblical language with the time periods in which this commentary occurred. But actually, the bible texts and oral tradition are older than that and the words held different meanings at those older moments in time. Once you reject liberal speculations based on shady comparative religious analysis the text becomes more open and the critique of it less compelling.

Some here criticize the lack of an alternate explanation as to what upholds the stars but why do we need that when we know the One who made them and when the evidence for any theory can never be overwhelming?

 

[Job 33:6]

Part of the problem here is with such comparative religion comments. People find that some ancient religions had a dome idea and marry the biblical language with the time periods in which this commentary occurred. But actually, the bible texts and oral tradition are older than that and the words held different meanings at those older moments in time. Once you reject liberal speculations based on shady comparative religious analysis the text becomes more open and the critique of it less compelling.

Some here criticize the lack of an alternate explanation as to what upholds the stars but why do we need that when we know the One who made them and when the evidence for any theory can never be overwhelming?

What evidence do you have that the expanse meant something else at an older period of time?

For me, I would say that the Bible states that the expanse is solid, on the basis that this is what the Bible itself says:

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the *windows of the heavens were opened.*
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the *windows of the heavens were closed*, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29


and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a *pavement of sapphire stone*, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

can you join him in spreading out the skies, *hard* as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

Or I believe that the Bible supports earth sitting on pillars because that's what it says:

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8


etc. Same with verses on Sheol and the waters above the firmament and the shape of the earth etc.

dozens of verses say precisely what we would expect them to say if they were describing the cosmology at the time.

 

[mindlight]

What evidence do you have that the expanse meant something else at an older period of time?

For me, I would say that the Bible states that the expanse is solid, on the basis that this is what the Bible itself says:

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the *windows of the heavens were opened.*
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the *windows of the heavens were closed*, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29


and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a *pavement of sapphire stone*, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

can you join him in spreading out the skies, *hard* as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

Or I believe that the Bible supports earth sitting on pillars because that's what it says:

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8


etc. Same with verses on Sheol and the waters above the firmament and the shape of the earth etc.

dozens of verses say precisely what we would expect them to say if they were describing the cosmology at the time.

Job 37:18—Does the Bible err in speaking of a solid dome above the earth?

Is there a Bible contradiction in Job 37:18? Here’s the solution from When Critics Ask by Geisler and Howe; used by permission.

defendinginerrancy.com

Rain falls through the sky, like a mirror. raqia as used here literally means spread out, birds fly across the sky

 

[Job 33:6]

Job 37:18—Does the Bible err in speaking of a solid dome above the earth?

Is there a Bible contradiction in Job 37:18? Here’s the solution from When Critics Ask by Geisler and Howe; used by permission.

defendinginerrancy.com

Rain falls through the sky, like a mirror. raqia as used here literally means spread out, birds fly across the sky

So the Bible says that the sky is hard like cast metal, and your response is that rain falls through it?

Such a response clearly contradicts what the Bible says.

There are dozens of verses in the Bible that affirm ANE cosmology. Sheol, the pillars of the earth, the solid sky dome, waters above and below the earth, windows and doors and bars in the sky etc.

 

[Semper-Fi]

What evidence do you have that the expanse meant something else at an older period of time?

God “created the heavens, and stretched them out” (Isaiah 42:5).

Job, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Zechariah use the Hebrew natah, which
means to stretch or spread; it can mean to extend in every direction.

(Isaiah 45:12; 48:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15) use a form of natah
that literally means the action was completed some time ago.

The entire universe came to exist suddenly,in a very brief moment. The
big bang was a well-planned, deliberately executed act of creation.

Scientists believe there was an initial rapid stretching out of
material, and then there has been an ongoing expansion ever since.

Seven instances in the bible use a form of the verb natah that
implies continual or ongoing stretching (Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2;
Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Zechariah 12:1).

Both of these stretching can be seen in Isaiah 40:22

Stretches out comes from natah and implies something continuing today,
while spreadeth comes from the Hebrew mathach (Old Testament)—meaning
to stretch out and implying something that God has already completed.

Science today and the bible shows the universe did not always exist.
It had a very fast beginning, and is still streaching outward[but slower] today.

Not until the 20th century did any science book, theology or philosophy even hint
at the universe’s initial, and then continuous expansion still today, except the bible.

 

[Job 33:6]

God “created the heavens, and stretched them out” (Isaiah 42:5).

Job, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Zechariah use the Hebrew natah, which
means to stretch or spread; it can mean to extend in every direction.

(Isaiah 45:12; 48:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15) use a form of natah
that literally means the action was completed some time ago.

The entire universe came to exist suddenly,in a very brief moment. The
big bang was a well-planned, deliberately executed act of creation.

Scientists believe there was an initial rapid stretching out of
material, and then there has been an ongoing expansion ever since.

Seven instances in the bible use a form of the verb natah that
implies continual or ongoing stretching (Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2;
Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Zechariah 12:1).

Both of these stretching can be seen in Isaiah 40:22

Stretches out comes from natah and implies something continuing today,
while spreadeth comes from the Hebrew mathach (Old Testament)—meaning
to stretch out and implying something that God has already completed.

Science today and the bible shows the universe did not always exist.
It had a very fast beginning, and is still streaching outward[but slower] today.

Not until the 20th century did any science book, theology or philosophy even hint
at the universe’s initial, and then continuous expansion still today, except the bible.

You know who also stretched out the heavens during creation? Marduk when he stretches out the body of tiamat. What you're quoting isn't evidence for a modern scientific understanding. It's just a reflection on what every other religion in that time believed about the heavens.

So if you think that ancient isrealites were describing big bang cosmology, then you would have to explain how it is that those of ugarit and Babylon somehow knew of big bang cosmology as well.

 

[Job 33:6]

"Not until the 20th century did any science book, theology or philosophy even hint
at the universe’s initial, and then continuous expansion still today"

Incorrect:

The Bibles description of heavens being stretched out with waters above is not unique. It was actually described and believed in various mesopotamian religions. It was described in Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian creation narratives. This is not a modern 21st century idea, rather it was commonly held between 4000BC up through the intertestimental period until around 500 BC or so that it gradually was replaced as cosmological perspectives advanced.

Enuma Elish 1500BCE (not quite as recent as the 21st century).
Tablet IV
137 He split her into two like a dried fish:
138 One half of her he set up and stretched out as the heavens.
139 He stretched the skin and appointed a watch
140 With the instruction not to let her waters escape.

Tablet V

59 He twisted her tail and wove it into the Durmah(u,
60 [ . . . ] . . the Apsû beneath his feet.
61 [He set up] her crotch—it wedged up the heavens—
62 [(Thus) the half of her] he stretched out and made it firm as the earth.
63 [After] he had finished his work inside Tia-mat,

 

[Job 33:6]

"Not until the 20th century did any science book, theology or philosophy even hint
at the universe’s initial, and then continuous expansion still today"

Incorrect:
View attachment 332726
The Bibles description of heavens being stretched out with waters above is not unique. It was actually described and believed in various mesopotamian religions. It was described in Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian creation narratives. This is not a modern 21st century idea, rather it was commonly held between 4000BC up through the intertestimental period until around 500 BC or so that it gradually was replaced as cosmological perspectives advanced.

Enuma Elish 1500BCE (not quite as recent as the 21st century).
Tablet IV
137 He split her into two like a dried fish:
138 One half of her he set up and stretched out as the heavens.
139 He stretched the skin and appointed a watch
140 With the instruction not to let her waters escape.

Tablet V

59 He twisted her tail and wove it into the Durmah(u,
60 [ . . . ] . . the Apsû beneath his feet.
61 [He set up] her crotch—it wedged up the heavens—
62 [(Thus) the half of her] he stretched out and made it firm as the earth.
63 [After] he had finished his work inside Tia-mat,

Isaiah 40:22-23 he spreads out the heavens like a tent.

That's right:

Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 44:24 ESV

who alone stretched out the heavens and trampled the waves of the sea;
Job 9:8 ESV

The oracle of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus declares the Lord, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1 ESV

Etc.

 

[juvenissun]

between the years 4000BC and toughly 500BC, many cultures held a view that the sky was a solid structure, like a dome. that rested sbove the earth.

this dome would hold the stars up against the force of gravity, before ancient cultures knew how far away the stars were.

above the dome, the sky was blue by day and black by night. the same color as water in the seas and rivers. and thus, many ancient cultures held to a belief in "waters above".

ancient artifacts such as the tablet of shamarah. the sarcophagus of wereshnefer, etchings lf the sky goddess nut on the tomb of king ramses, the babylonian map of the world, and ancient texts from babylonian and caananite, egyptian, assyrian, alkadian and broadwr mesopotamian texts, confirm this.

it wasnt until around 500 BC that early measurements were made of the curvature of the earth.

Spherical Earth - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Galileo is later credited with the promotion of heliocentrism at roufhly 1600AD.

with the old testament dating back to at least 1200BC, it is fair to ask, "does the Bible fescribe modern 21st century science?" Or does the Bible describe ancient near east cosmology?

Biblical scholarly consensus is currently "No", it does not describe 21st century scjence and with that, I present the following Bible verses and material on ancient near east cosmology, for general awareness.

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

Over the heads of the living creatures there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

Then I looked, and above the dome that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in form resembling a throne.
Ezekiel 10:1

When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:27‭-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

Why do you take the “dome” to be “solid”? It is just a shape.

 

[juvenissun]

@Original Happy Camper

LEB, CJB, CEB, GNT, NASB (1 case in amos), NABRE, NRSV, OJB among others use "dome". These tend to lean more toward direct translation from Hebrew than versions that lean more toward word for word translations rather than thought for thought.

View attachment 321457
NRSV I think tends to lean pretty far into the word for word side along with influence from ancient near east context. I think it's one of the better translations for old testament reading. I'd recommend the Bible App to view many translations as well.

But rather than bickering over translations, just read the context in which the raqia is described.

Pavement, molten metal or molten mirror, crystal, cast bronze, frozen water or ice, which has windows in it that open and close to let water through (Gen 7:11 and 8:2). Among others. The context suggests a solid or "firm" firmament. Spread like being beat out like a blacksmith might beat out or expand molten metal. That birds do not fly within but rather fly across the face of, much like the spirit hovers over the face of the deep. Etc.

The original hebraic context is that the raqia is a solid structure.

Something is “firm” does not mean it is “solid”. The mechanical property of a “firm” material is only relative in sense. So, the “firmament” is not necessay a solid. Since it “expands”, it is more likely not a solid.

 

[Job 33:6]

Why do you take the “dome” to be “solid”? It is just a shape.

Because the Bible describes it as such. And this is what artifacts of the ancient near east depict as well as numerous ancient near east writings.

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

He made strong [strong as in like a tree grows firm] the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

Artifacts such a as the tablet of shamash and the unfinished kudurru stone depict these cosmological structures as solid. The pillars, the disk earth, the heavenly ocean above etc.

 

[notworthconsideration]

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters,

Honestly, I don’t really care what you believe… but how could you honestly say you believe it after you’ve had to intentionally change a word in scripture to support your narrative?

Again, I don’t want to hear what you believe or why… I want to know why it’s so important to deceive people, by altering the Word of God, just to intrigue them to consider your Flat Earth research?

btw, the silly diagram labeled ‘Ancient Hebrew Cosmology” was created (the original) circa 1920 AD by an American illustrator.

The majority of your presentation comes from sources that profit from this movement.

A former employee of a popular social site admitted on national news to developing a ‘flat earth propaganda’ thread to monitor people with certain social disorders as a potential target audience. A lot of this is repackaging of some of his pins after that topic was banned from that site and it adherents are trying to find safe places to promote their propaganda.

…not accusing you of that, just letting you know that even presenting it as history is dishonest.

 

[Job 33:6]

Honestly, I don’t really care what you believe… but how could you honestly say you believe it after you’ve had to intentionally change a word in scripture to support your narrative?

Again, I don’t want to hear what you believe or why… I want to know why it’s so important to deceive people, by altering the Word of God, just to intrigue them to consider your Flat Earth research?

btw, the silly diagram labeled ‘Ancient Hebrew Cosmology” was created (the original) circa 1920 AD by an American illustrator.

The majority of your presentation comes from sources that profit from this movement.

A former employee of a popular social site admitted on national news to developing a ‘flat earth propaganda’ thread to monitor people with certain social disorders as a potential target audience. A lot of this is repackaging of some of his pins after that topic was banned from that site and it adherents are trying to find safe places to promote their propaganda.

…not accusing you of that, just letting you know that even presenting it as history is dishonest.

I didnt change anything. NASB uses the term dome, as does the NRSV, LEB, CJB and many other translations.

Do you have a problem with the NASB?

The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth - Amos 9:6 NASB

And as noted in the above Bible passages, the Biblical authors defined the dome as solid. As was common in many many many ancient near east writings.


can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

He made strong [strong as in like a tree grows firm] the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14


You cannot blame me. I'm just showing you what the Bible says. And if this is new to you, im sorry. But there are many many Bible scholars who have lots of academic publications on this, and its well established. And there are many Christian groups that would be happy to work with you as you process this information.

But denial and personal attacks against me suggesting that maybe i believe that earth is flat (which obviously i dont as a scientist) is not a sufficient response.

 

[Job 33:6]

Honestly, I don’t really care what you believe… but how could you honestly say you believe it after you’ve had to intentionally change a word in scripture to support your narrative?

Again, I don’t want to hear what you believe or why… I want to know why it’s so important to deceive people, by altering the Word of God, just to intrigue them to consider your Flat Earth research?

btw, the silly diagram labeled ‘Ancient Hebrew Cosmology” was created (the original) circa 1920 AD by an American illustrator.

The majority of your presentation comes from sources that profit from this movement.

A former employee of a popular social site admitted on national news to developing a ‘flat earth propaganda’ thread to monitor people with certain social disorders as a potential target audience. A lot of this is repackaging of some of his pins after that topic was banned from that site and it adherents are trying to find safe places to promote their propaganda.

…not accusing you of that, just letting you know that even presenting it as history is dishonest.

And I hate to break it to you, but belief in a solid sky dome is not a "movement". Its well grounded historical fact. Just read texts such as barashit raba midrash 4, or you can read St Augustines writings on the literal meaning of Genesis.

Dont blame me just because you have a concern with what the Bible says. Just take a deep breath, and think about why the Bible says what it does. And if you would like more information on the topic, feel free to ask. But dont come after me just because the book of job describes the sky hard as cast metal.

 

[Job 33:6]

Honestly, I don’t really care what you believe… but how could you honestly say you believe it after you’ve had to intentionally change a word in scripture to support your narrative?

Again, I don’t want to hear what you believe or why… I want to know why it’s so important to deceive people, by altering the Word of God, just to intrigue them to consider your Flat Earth research?

btw, the silly diagram labeled ‘Ancient Hebrew Cosmology” was created (the original) circa 1920 AD by an American illustrator.

The majority of your presentation comes from sources that profit from this movement.

A former employee of a popular social site admitted on national news to developing a ‘flat earth propaganda’ thread to monitor people with certain social disorders as a potential target audience. A lot of this is repackaging of some of his pins after that topic was banned from that site and it adherents are trying to find safe places to promote their propaganda.

…not accusing you of that, just letting you know that even presenting it as history is dishonest.

Also, its not a "silly diagram", its etched in artifacts dating back to the early centuries of the 2nd temple period and dating back in egyptian artifacts several centuries BC.

For example, you can look up the "Tablet of Shamash" or the "unfinished kuddurru stone" for ancient artifacts that depict 3-tiered ancient near east cosmology. Just as is described in the Bible. The babylonian map of the world is another example, or the depictions of the sky goddess nut of ancient egypt on King Ramses IV tomb. Ancient isrealites underwent the babylonian captivity and escaped from egypt. These regions absolutely are significant in that they very clearly thought that "the waters above" was a literal heavenly ocean, held up by a "raqia". The expanse that separated the waters from the waters. The waters below were gathered to form the seas. The waters above remained above. And were eventually released and restrained in noahs flood, genesis 7:11 and 8:2.

OT Bible Scholar Dr. Micheal Heiser on the subject:

Babylonian Map of the World, 9th Century BC

Babylonian Map of the World - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tablet of Shamash, 850-890BC

Tablet of Shamash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unfinished Kudurru, 12st Centry BC

Unfinished kudurru-Sb 25

Unfinished kudurru

www.wikidata.org

The above images are from Ben Stanhope's video in the OP

And yes, the serpent swimming around in the unfinished kudurru stone of the waters of the deep is...Leviathan of the book of Job.
Isaiah 27 1
In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword, his fierce, great and powerful sword, Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea