The Solid Sky Expanse and Dome of Biblical Cosmology and the Ancient Near

[Job 33:6]

More on Leviathan, the monster of the sea depicted in the artifact above (though Leviathan was its name unique to the Bible, the creature had other names in ancient history, such as litanu, tiamat, lotan, Rahab, and Yam), and it took on various forms depending on the religion and culture in question.

 

[Job 33:6]

Something is “firm” does not mean it is “solid”. The mechanical property of a “firm” material is only relative in sense. So, the “firmament” is not necessay a solid. Since it “expands”, it is more likely not a solid.

also, the hebrew word raqa, means to "beat out". So its more than just "expands", its more specifically, to expand by beating out, like a blacksmith expands a cast metal mirror with a hammer by beating it out.

Thats why the passage in job 37:18 is sometimes translated as the sky being like cast metal, bronze or "molten mirror" depending on the translation you use. And the same hebrew word, raqa, is also used in the casting of the bronze laver in the book of exodus. Because before modern mirrors were invented, people used bronze plates as mirrors. So some translations say that God spread out the sky like bronze mirror or molten mirror or cast metal, or some variation of this idea to try to inform the reader that God spread out or expanded the heavens and the earth and the sky, in a similar manner as a person might expand or spread out a metal plate of molten bronze with a hammer by beating it out, or raqa-ing metal.

Strong's Hebrew: 7554. רָקַע (raqa) -- to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out

Exodus 39:3 Hebrew Text Analysis

And they beat the gold into thin sheets and cut it into threads, to work it in with the blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and the fine linen, into artistic designs. - Exodus 39:3, beat out, raqa, as in the raqia that was raqa'd.

Isaiah 40:19 “As for the idol, a craftsman casts (expand or spread out) it, a goldsmith plates it with gold, and a silversmith fashions chains of silver.

Exodus 30:18 Hebrew Text Analysis

And so we see that "expands" is actually a word universally used with regards to solid metal. The only exceptions would be when God Raqa'd the heavens and the earth. And the earth of course is solid. So that leaves the heavens, the raqia, as the outlier.

It would actually be more abnormal that it were not solid, than it were, based on how the word is used in the Bible. The root word raqa is used 11 times and always refers to something solid outside of referring to the sky.

 

[notworthconsideration]

Do you have a problem with the NASB?

LOL, I do now. I apologize for questioning that, as I don’t read common English translations and was unaware of that word in the Bible.

Can you identify the Hebrew word that is translated “dome?”

 

[Job 33:6]

LOL, I do now. I apologize for questioning that, as I don’t read common English translations and was unaware of that word in the Bible.

Can you identify the Hebrew word that is translated “dome?”

Sure. It's, "raqia". From the root word "raqa" described in my last post.

Strong's Hebrew: 7549. רָקִ֫יעַ (raqia) -- an extended surface, expanse

Strong's Hebrew: 7554. רָקַע (raqa) -- to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out

As someone noted above, it's often translated as "expanse", firmament or dome. Those are the most common translations. But what's significant here is that while raqa does mean "to expand" in a sense, i more accurately means "to expand by beating out" or simply "to beat out". And the most simple analogy would be how a blacksmith beats out metal plates with a hammer and spreads it out. Which is why raqia and raqia often have language associated with metal plates throughout the Bible.

And so, to be straightforward about the original context, the isrealites said that God spread out the raqia and the earth. Or expanded the expanse and the erets.

And if you look closely, heaven is expanded over Tohu in the Bible. Tohu is used in Genesis 1:2 with respect to "the deep". And earth is spread out over beliymah. "Nothingness". Which at first glance might sound like empty space. However this word parallels Tohu, often translated as emptiness or nothing, the formless and void. Meaning that earth itself is also stretched out over an ocean. Or beat out.

It's the waters above and the waters below.

Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon has no covering. He stretches out Zaphon over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing. He has described a circle on the face of the waters, at the boundary between light and darkness. The pillars of heaven tremble, and are astounded at his rebuke. By his power he stilled the Sea; by his understanding he struck down Rahab.
Job 26:6‭-‬7‭, ‬10‭-‬12 NRSV

Notice the above words. "Sheol", "stretched out", "zaphon", "void", hangs the earth", "nothing", "circle on the face of the waters", "boundary between light and dark", "pillar of heaven", "struck down rahab".

Sheol in ancient times was the lower regions of the earth, like hades or the underworld. So right out the gate we see language that is referring to something unnatural. Stretched out, expanded, this is a different Hebrew word than raqia but a similar meaning. He stretches out zaphon. Zaphon in the Bible was a word relating mt zaphon, the meeting place of the gods (elohim, angels). It's talking about the heavens. So God stretched out heaven over or on "hung on" as in, how a leaf hangs from a tree. Tsaphon hung on the "waters above", Tohu. And erets, earth, is "hung on" beliymah, the waters below the earth. See Psalm 136:6.

"Circle" as in, the circumference of the dome, the edge of the dome that surrounds the earth. The horizon, like we see when we go to the beach and look off into the ocean, the horizon where the sun sets. The "boundary" between light and day.

And the earth does not hover in space, rather, as Job says, the pillars of heaven tremble. And God struck down "Rahab" an ancient near east title for the caananite God of the sea, leviathan.

When we read the Bible in this context, it actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[Job 33:6]

LOL, I do now. I apologize for questioning that, as I don’t read common English translations and was unaware of that word in the Bible.

Can you identify the Hebrew word that is translated “dome?”

You should understand that a majority of Bible scholars acknowledge the translation "dome" as accurate. "Expanse" arguably hides the meaning of the word.

LOL, I do now. I apologize for questioning that, as I don’t read common English translations and was unaware of that word in the Bible.

Can you identify the Hebrew word that is translated “dome?”

From Strongs Concordance:

Brown-Driver-Briggs
רָקִיעַ noun masculineGenesis 1:6 extended surface, (solid) expanse (as if beaten out; compare Job 37:18); — absolute ׳ר Ezekiel 1:22 +, construct ׳רְ Genesis 1:14 +; — ᵐ5 στερέωμα, ᵑ9 firmamentum, compare Syriac below √above; —
1 (flat) expanse (as if of ice, compare כְּעֵין הַקֶּרַח), as base, support (WklAltor. Forsch. iv. 347) Ezekiel 1:22,23,25(gloss ? compare Co Toy), Ezekiel 1:26 (supporting ׳י's throne). Hence (CoEzekiel 1:22)

2 the vault of heaven, or 'firmament,' regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting 'waters' above it, Genesis 1:6,7 (3 t. in verse); Genesis 1:8 (called שָׁמַיַם; all P), Psalm 19:2 ("" הַשָּׁמַיַם), ׳זֹהַר הָר Daniel 12:3; also ׳ר הַשָּׁמִיִם Genesis 1:14,15,17, ׳הַשּׁ ׳עַלמְּֿנֵי ר Genesis 1:20 (all P). **רְקִיעַ עֻזּוֺ Psalm 150:1 (suffix reference to ׳י).

17 Occorances:
Genesis 1:6
Genesis 1:7
Genesis 1:8
Genesis 1:14
Genesis 1:15
Genesis 1:17
Genesis 1:20
Psalm 19:1
Psalm 150:1
Ezekiel 1:22
Ezekiel 1:23
Ezekiel 1:25
Ezekiel 1:26
Ezekiel 10:1
Daniel 12:3

I'd recommend looking at the hebrew in Genesis 1:20, the birds fly above the earth, not in the raqia, but across the face of the raqia, of the sky. The raqia is of the sky but it is not itself the sky. The stars are placed in the raqia, further demonstrating that it is not the sky. But it is also not outer space, as the waters above the raqia are visible and came down to earth in genesis 7:11 and 8:2. Which means that if the firmament were space, and the waters above were above the firmament, then we would have an ocean at the edge of the universe travelling across intergalactic space to flood the earth. In ezekiel and exodus, the firmament is described like brilliant crystal of saphire stone. Also indicating that people could look up and see it, and could see God above it, walking on it, as in Amos. God walks on the circuit or the dome, of heaven.

Basically, the language only makes sense if the Bible is describing the ancient near east cosmological perspective. In which there is a solid crystal dome holding up a heavenly ocean.

Book of Enoch:
IT came to pass, when Enoch had told his sons, that the angels took him on to their wings and bore him up on to the first heaven and placed him on the clouds. And there I looked, and again I looked higher, and saw the ether, and they placed me on the first heaven and showed me a very great Sea, greater than the earthly sea.

Raqa
Brown-Driver-Briggs
[רָקַע] verb beat, stamp, beat out, spread out (Late Hebrew id.; Hiph`il, Aramaic רְקַע Aph`el, both spread out, and derivatives; Syriac

press down (Luke 6:38 ᵑ6), spread out, also consolidate; Arabic

patch, put on a patch, repair, compare Christian-Palestinian Aramaic

patch,

swaddling-bands, SchwIdioticon 90; Phoenician מרקע platter, or bowl, of gold CISi. 90, 1); —
Qal Imperfect1singular suffix אֶרְקָעֵם 2 Samuel 22:43 I will stamp them down (probably gloss to אֲדִקֵּם preceding, of. BaePs 18:43); Imperative רְקַע בְּדַגְלְךָ Ezekiel 6:11 beat (stamp) with thy foot, in token of contemptuous pleasure, compare Da ("" הַכֵּה בְכַמְּךָ); so Infinitive construct suffix רַקְעֲךָ בְּרָ֑גֶל Ezekiel 25:6 ("" מַחְאֲךָ יָד); Participle active as substantive construct (Ges§ 65d) רֹקַע הָאָרֶץ (i.e. ׳י) he that (beateth out) spreadeth out the earth Isaiah 42:5, רֹקַע ׳הַא Isaiah 44:24, ׳רוֺקַע הָא Psalm 136:6.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
beat, make broad, spread abroad forth, over, out, into plates, stamp, stretch
A primitive root; to pound the earth (as a sign of passion); by analogy to expand (by hammering); by implication, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal) -- beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.

Pi`el Imperfect3masculine singular suffix בַּזָּהָב יְרַקְּעֶנּוּ Isaiah 40:19 a goldsmith with gold over-layeth it (literally beateth it out3masculine plural וַיְרַקְּעוּ אֶתֿ מַּחֵי הַזָּהָב Exodus 39:3 they beat out the plates of gold; suffix וַיְרִקְּעוּם צִמּוּי Numbers 17:4 they beat them out as plating.

Pu`al Participle כֶּסֶף מְרֻקָּ֑ע Jeremiah 10:9 silver beaten out.

Hiph`il Imperfect2masculine singular תַּרְקִיעַ עִמּוֺ לִשְׁחָקִים Job 37:18 canst thou make with (= like) him a spreading for clouds (spread out clouds; cf, רָקִיעַ)?

11 Occurances:
Exodus 39:3
Numbers 16:39
2 Samuel 22:43
Job 37:18
Psalm 136:6
Isaiah 40:19
Isaiah 42:5
Isaiah 44:24
Jeremiah 10:9
Ezekiel 6:11
Ezekiel 25:6

 

[juvenissun]

also, the hebrew word raqa, means to "beat out". So its more than just "expands", its more specifically, to expand by beating out, like a blacksmith expands a cast metal mirror with a hammer by beating it out.

Thats why the passage in job 37:18 is sometimes translated as the sky being like cast metal, bronze or "molten mirror" depending on the translation you use. And the same hebrew word, raqa, is also used in the casting of the bronze laver in the book of exodus. Because before modern mirrors were invented, people used bronze plates as mirrors. So some translations say that God spread out the sky like bronze mirror or molten mirror or cast metal, or some variation of this idea to try to inform the reader that God spread out or expanded the heavens and the earth and the sky, in a similar manner as a person might expand or spread out a metal plate of molten bronze with a hammer by beating it out, or raqa-ing metal.

Strong's Hebrew: 7554. רָקַע (raqa) -- to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out

Exodus 39:3 Hebrew Text Analysis

And they beat the gold into thin sheets and cut it into threads, to work it in with the blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and the fine linen, into artistic designs. - Exodus 39:3, beat out, raqa, as in the raqia that was raqa'd.

Isaiah 40:19 “As for the idol, a craftsman casts (expand or spread out) it, a goldsmith plates it with gold, and a silversmith fashions chains of silver.

Exodus 30:18 Hebrew Text Analysis

And so we see that "expands" is actually a word universally used with regards to solid metal. The only exceptions would be when God Raqa'd the heavens and the earth. And the earth of course is solid. So that leaves the heavens, the raqia, as the outlier.

It would actually be more abnormal that it were not solid, than it were, based on how the word is used in the Bible. The root word raqa is used 11 times and always refers to something solid outside of referring to the sky.

The physical process (observable to stone-age man) of "spread" or "diffuse" suggests a center of origin. But beating metal to expand bears no such meaning.
Who said Biblical writers had no inspiration of modern sciences?

 

[juvenissun]

Because the Bible describes it as such. And this is what artifacts of the ancient near east depict as well as numerous ancient near east writings.

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

He made strong [strong as in like a tree grows firm] the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

Artifacts such a as the tablet of shamash and the unfinished kudurru stone depict these cosmological structures as solid. The pillars, the disk earth, the heavenly ocean above etc.

Is the air very "hard"? Is the water very "hard"?
Yes, they are extremely hard, in some situations.
So, the "dome" is a shape, not a material.

 

[Job 33:6]

The physical process (observable to stone-age man) of "spread" or "diffuse" suggests a center of origin. But beating metal to expand bears no such meaning.
Who said Biblical writers had no inspiration of modern sciences?

Spreading our metal requires an original center of origin, the metal being spread out.

And regarding your second question, I would respond by asking, who ever said that the Biblical authors did have inspiration involving modern science? When I read Deuteronomy and Exodus, I certainly don't get such an impression.

 

[Job 33:6]

Is the air very "hard"? Is the water very "hard"?
Yes, they are extremely hard, in some situations.
So, the "dome" is a shape, not a material.

Is air hard like cast metal?
can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

As noted before, the Hebrew terminology is the same as the casting of the bronze laver. When the Bible says "hard" that's what it means. Literally.

Sorry. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Ancient Jews that debated on if the dome was made of copper or iron, how much water was above it, and how thick it was, disagree with your assessment.

 

[Job 33:6]

Note:
If your hermeneutical approach to the Bible involves you trying to argue that air and gas are hard like cast metal, you're probably reading the Bible wrong.

 

[juvenissun]

Is air hard like cast metal?
can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

As noted before, the Hebrew terminology is the same as the casting of the bronze laver. When the Bible says "hard" that's what it means. Literally.

Sorry. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Ancient Jews that debated on if the dome was made of copper or iron, how much water was above it, and how thick it was, disagree with your assessment.

Have you heard that when a spaceship comes back to the earth, the entrance angle is critical? Do you know what would happen to the spaceship when the angle is too large or too small? Do you know why is this related to how "hard" is the air in atmosphere?

You need to be good in science to appreciate the message of science in the Bible.

 

[juvenissun]

Spreading our metal requires an original center of origin, the metal being spread out.

And regarding your second question, I would respond by asking, who ever said that the Biblical authors did have inspiration involving modern science? When I read Deuteronomy and Exodus, I certainly don't get such an impression.

No. If one tried to spread metal by beating it, then there can not be just one center of impact.
the Bible contains many many knowledges of modern science. The Book of Job is an excellent Book to demonstrate that.

 

[FireDragon76]

Have you heard that when a spaceship comes back to the earth, the entrance angle is critical? Do you know what would happen to the spaceship when the angle is too large or too small? Do you know why is this related to how "hard" is the air in atmosphere?

You need to be good in science to appreciate the message of science in the Bible.

That's really straining logic to try to skyhook a failing biblical hermeneutic.

 

[juvenissun]

That's really straining logic to try to skyhook a failing biblical hermeneutic.

I am talking about engineering, not the Bible. Wake up.