The Sinner's Prayer cannot save anyone!

[woobadooba]

Hello: I have re-read my first post and I must say I do not see the problem. The good news that I was given said "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and that He died for my sins". He paid the price. He purchased me from the slave market of sin. Absolute rightousenss has been deposited into my account. I have been given the down payment of the Holy Spirit. "...I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" Thank you.

Yes, but do you or don't you believe that a sinner has to believe that Jesus died for his sins before he can be saved from them?

 

[simonthezealot]

Hello: I have re-read my first post and I must say I do not see the problem. The good news that I was given said "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and that He died for my sins". He paid the price. He purchased me from the slave market of sin. Absolute rightousenss has been deposited into my account. I have been given the down payment of the Holy Spirit. "...I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" Thank you.

Amen, my brother.

 

[dhuisjen2]

There is a lot of push to break all ties with the World Council of Churches, in fact, the Antiochian Archdiocese of America, the second or third largest branch of Orthodoxy in the U.S., recently voted unanimously to leave the WCC. It have proven fruitless to be involved in it.

Basil

Hi Basil,

FWDIM, most of the Orthodox I know who were working in Geneva were Russians whose main motivation for being there was to try to negotiate deals to keep Baptists and Methodists out of their back yard. I had some interesting discussions with them at the "Second European Ecumenical Assembly" in '97 and have since lost touch. The WCC world conference the following year in Harare was generally considered a bust by all involved, and AFAIK Geneva style ecumenism has been going down hill ever since.

That being said, the moral obligation to keep John 17:22 central to our faith should still be relevant to all believers.

Peace, David

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hello: I have re-read my first post and I must say I do not see the problem. The good news that I was given said "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh and that He died for my sins". He paid the price. He purchased me from the slave market of sin. Absolute rightousenss has been deposited into my account. I have been given the down payment of the Holy Spirit. "...I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" Thank you.

I have not seen your first post but with this post you have shown me that you truely understand.

I don't know if this is needed to be said to you but one has to be careful in what he understands to be true. In saying that I mean that one errors greatly if they then believe that because they are considered justified for salvation and considered righteous doesn't at all mean they have been given the licence to sin or keep on sinning.

You now have the Spirit of God living inside you, this is a gift. This gift should be showing the fruits. You have been shown mercy and grace and now you need to be spreading that around, you should be wanting to share this gift. Everyone that comes in contact with you should be able to see these fruits in you.

James said faith without works is dead; don't let the faith in you die!

 

[nephilimiyr]

In my opinion the only thing wrong with the sinner's prayer is asking the candidate to feel sorry for their sins. Emotions are a non-issue. What you think about Jesus Christ is the issue. I changed my mind about the fact that "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh; and that He died for my sins" and "poof" I was / still am saved. No water; thank you.

I understand what you're saying and it should be noted here that the sinners prayer is not written in stone. In others words, the sinners prayer should be improvised.

Asking the candidate to feel sorry for his sins seems silly to me because it's the conviction of the Holy Spirit working inside the persons heart that should have already made the person feel sorry for his sins in the first place. Whether the person acknowledges this or not isn't an issue with me. The change in the person afterwards is what I'm concerned with.

People feeling sorry for their sins should not be suppressed and in fact is a natural response to the conviction of the Holy Spirit in them. I just don't see how you can get around this.

 

[vanshan]

Indeed, believing alone doesn't have the power to transform us, however... God alone has the power to transform us. We do not transform ourselves, but it is God who does it. He grants repentance, He saves, He does all the work. Therefore, salvation is by faith alone, because God does it all. Once we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, we will inevitably desire to cherish Christ and desire to follow His commandments.

God performs the work, but we are obedient when we labor against sin. Or efforts are met with His Grace to transform us.

From reading the writings of Saint Justin (Popovich), I learned a good analogy about how we can accurately view our sinfulness. Sin is a life-threatening illness that we cannot treat ourselves. We have no means to cure ourselves, but God, our Physician, gives us Divine Grace through the holy mysteries, which are like medicine that heals our sickness. He also gives us the prescription of prayer and fasting, which are like physical therapy, helping us rehabilitate our mortal bodies, which are weakened by sin, and often fall to it. Through these two treatments, the medicine of the holy mysteries and the physical therapy of fasting and prayer, we become stronger, not because we have healed ourselves, but because we have cooperated with the treatment plan of our Physician. By His love and mercy He has given us a cure, but if we are lazy, complacent, lovers of sin, we will perish. Not because He failed to give us an effective cure, but because we failed to embrace that cure and receive healing.



Basil

 

[lionroar0]

Absolutely true. The article is a bit misleading, however, in trying to link it to Luther. Ever notice how he seems to be the scapegoat for issues not even remotely related to him?
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I have to agree with you there. Luther did not belive in OSAS. I would have linked it with Zwingli and the Anabaptis.

Peace

 

[woobadooba]

I understand what you're saying and it should be noted here that the sinners prayer is not written in stone. In others words, the sinners prayer should be improvised.

Asking the candidate to feel sorry for his sins seems silly to me because it's the conviction of the Holy Spirit working inside the persons heart that should have already made the person feel sorry for his sins in the first place. Whether the person acknowledges this or not isn't an issue with me. The change in the person afterwards is what I'm concerned with.

People feeling sorry for their sins should not be suppressed and in fact is a natural response to the conviction of the Holy Spirit in them. I just don't see how you can get around this.

Well, we do live in a society that is, for the most part, founded on the philosophical tenets of moral relativism.

Therefore, it does seem appropriate in a sense to address the issue of guilt. For, if one doesn't understand the nature of sin, how could he ever come to appreciate what Christ has done for all humankind through His great sacrifice?

In fact, it is usually people who don't feel sorry for their sins as such that they look for ways to justify them by Christ's blood, who think they just have to believe in what Christ did for them, and that is as far as their salvation goes. Hence, they are saved, and Christ's atoning work is finished. But this isn't true.

For, there is much more to salvation than just being saved from the guilt of past sins. Jesus literally wants to save us from sin itself.

So I don't necessarily agree that it would be wrong to question a person on the issue of guilt for sin before asking him if he would like to receive Jesus Christ into his heart. For, such questions serve to inform the sinner that he should not take his relationship with God lightly.

 

[Gal328]

Isn't it only pharisees that question the sinner's prayer?

Luke 18:9
And he spoke also to some, who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and made nothing of all the rest of men, this parable:
18:10
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer.
18:11 The Pharisee, standing, prayed thus to himself: God, I thank thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer.
18:12 I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain. 18:13 And the tax-gatherer, standing afar off, would not lift up even his eyes to heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, O God, have compassion on me, the sinner.
18:14 I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than that other. For every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.

1. The reason why I alwayse make an ephasis on sincerity is that I myself have walked away from God. And I am currently going through my Hell right now.

2. I generally could tell if someone is being sincere when they pray or make thier dicision of faith, if I am in the same room with them.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Well, we do live in a society that is, for the most part, founded on the philosophical tenets of moral relativism.

Therefore, it does seem appropriate in a sense to address the issue of guilt. For, if one doesn't understand the nature of sin, how could he ever come to appreciate what Christ has done for all humankind through His great sacrifice?

In fact, it is usually people who don't feel sorry for their sins as such that they look for ways to justify them by Christ's blood, who think they just have to believe in what Christ did for them, and that is as far as their salvation goes. Hence, they are saved, and Christ's atoning work is finished. But this isn't true.

For, there is much more to salvation than just being saved from the guilt of past sins. Jesus literally wants to save us from sin itself.

So I don't necessarily agree that it would be wrong to question a person on the issue of guilt for sin before asking him if he would like to receive Jesus Christ into his heart. For, such questions serve to inform the sinner that he should not take his relationship with God lightly.

I don't necessarily say it's wrong to question a person on the issue of guilt, all I'm saying is that if the Holy Spirit has truely convicted the person of guilt then we shouldn't have to ask them to feel sorry for their sinful life because they will already be feeling sorry for it.

In most sinners prayers this is added in because of the realization that the person is feeling sorry for their sinful life and needs to express that in some way.

I don't think you or I are disagreeing all that much.

 

[holdon]

1. The reason why I alwayse make an ephasis on sincerity is that I myself have walked away from God. And I am currently going through my Hell right now.

If we are His children He doesn't walk away from us.

2. I generally could tell if someone is being sincere when they pray or make thier dicision of faith, if I am in the same room with them.

Well, in the book of Acts they baptized one on his confession of faith and they turned out to have been wrong about it. See Acts 8.

There is nothing wrong with judging one based on the evidence of his walk/work and his confession. But it is definitely wrong to judge anybody's heart, when the confession is there. Leave that up to God.

 

[Stinker]

"Praying the 'sinner's prayer' is part of an easy gospel, which deceives us into believing that all we have to do is confess Christ and we are fully saved." [Opening Post quote]
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The dynamics involved in a person coming to New Testament belief, which involves both one's mind (Jn.12:42-43) and will (Rom.10:2), is never 'easy'.

It is not natural for a carnal person (life-long practicing sinner) to come to God in prayer (with or without someone else) or by confession of Him verbally before an audience.

This is where I think works seem to make things clearer to many people. They see any practicing sinner able to get to heaven by simply following the New Testament as a sort of Instruction Manual. It is a natural process. Just follow the commands, that's all the practicing sinner has to do, they are told and we are taught. No miraculous dynamics invoved whatsoever.

Well, when a practicing sinner does come to God and their soul has been cleansed by Christ's blood.....this is miraculous. When a practicing sinner has come to New Testament belief, which is automatic repentance (Mk.1:15), and their moral character is suddenly changed for the positive.....this is miraculous.


I have often challenged people of my former church here at this site, with the question of Acts 3:19 which reads:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted outwhen the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

The meaning in the Koine Greek of the word converted is 'morally reformed' or 'turned to God' here in Acts 3:19. My question to those people was; "Do you believe that God is going to condemn all converted people who have not been water baptized?

I think not.

 

[ContraMundum]

Here's a nice quote from a sermon:

"It is impossible, indeed, to have too high an esteem for 'the faith of God's elect'. And we must all declare, 'By grace ye are saved through faith; not of works, lest any man should boast'. We must cry aloud to every penitent sinner, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved'.


But, at the same time, we must take care to let all men know, we esteem no faith but that which worketh by love; and that we are not saved by faith, unless so far as we are delivered from the power as well as the guilt of sin.


And when we say, 'Believe, and thou shalt be saved', we do not mean, 'Believe, and thou shalt step from sin to heaven, without any holiness coming between; faith supplying the place of holiness'; but, 'Believe, and thou shalt be holy; believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt have peace and power together: thou shalt have power from Him in whom thou believest, to trample sin under thy feet; power to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and to serve Him with all thy strength; thou shalt have power, 'by patient continuance in welldoing, to seek for glory, and honour, and immortality'; thou shalt both do and teach all the commandments of God, from the least even to the greatest: thou shalt teach them by thy life as well as thy words, and so 'be called great in the kingdom of heaven'"


- John Wesley, Sermon on the Mount V, 1748

 

[lmnop9876]

contramundum, that's a brilliant quote!

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Yes it is!!!

Hey there pjw!

 

[relspace]

I remember how a christian woman in my church, whom I spoke with about some things that bothered me and where on my mind, wanted me to repeat after her by use of the sinner's prayer! That was NOT what I felt because I was already saved by His grace and mercy and I do not believe in saying a certain prayer that is not from the heart and/or doesn't remotely pertain to your current circumstances! I felt very insulted and ignored. People who do this are saying empty and meaningless words, which I gurantee you the Father aint even trying to hear that!

Sorry that I seem a bit 'hype' about this topic but I strongly disagree with the sinner's prayer. If it's not from the heart, DON'T SAY IT.

I hear what you are saying but... I on the other hand never hesitate to say this prayer again and again. I know I am in God's hands. My life is testimony to this fact. But I will never stop asking Jesus into life for my heart will never ever say no to Him in this.

You know some of us look like we are doing good rising above everyone around us and some look really bad plummeting straight to hell. But no matter how you thow a ball it will end up on the ground. All men start under the same relentless acceleration of sin, the farther they fall the faster they fall, and the resulting destination is always the same. Unless God reaches out to catch you, you are lost. The good news of the gospel is that Jesus, the son of God gave his life so that we would know that if we ask it, God will catch us and Jesus will become a part our life to lead us out of ignorance and sin. The path on which He carries us is according to His will and it is foolish to compare between us. In some of us the changes are quick and in some the changes are slow and others just have a long long long way to go. Only God can judge between us. We can only give thanks that sin no longer chooses of our final destination.

I believe God wants us of our own free will and He gives us that free will to choose whether we want Him in our life or not. The sinners prayer simply represents making that choice.

Look I don't believe that anything we do, anything we say, anything we know or anything believe can save us. Only God can do that. Because of this I do not understand this idea of the Assurance of salvation which says "you've got to know that you know that you are saved." I cannot put trust in anything of myself - not in my action or in my words or my knowledge or my feelings or in my beliefs. I put no trust in "my salvation". I put my trust in God. Of His goodness and power I can have full assurance. I know that He is worthy of my devotion and trust and belief, or I know nothing at all. When I stand before God in judgement I would not dream of putting up any defense or try holding God to a promise. I could only say to Him that I am in your hands for you to with me as you will.

I would first warn them, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21)

Salvation is only God's to give and not ours to demand. And I think that the true and proper fear of God is knowing that we cannot bribe Him with any works, manipulate Him with any words, force Him with any law, or bind him with any scripture. So, although, by putting my trust Him, I have been given rest and comfort, I would not dare take my salvation for granted that I would lord it over others or fail to keep listening for His voice and seeking to know His will.

I would them to submit to the guidance of the Church, which Christ heads. The Lord sent His Apostles telling them: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20) The Church is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), so I would encourage them to listen to the Church's guidance and prescriptions for sin, because through life in the Church, God provides His Grace which saves us.

Yes but which church is that? The world is full of the manipulation of men by other men, and wolves in sheep's clothing will seek to deceive us and lead us astray. The world is full of men that want us to put our trust in them. Therefore we must do the best we can when seeking out advice in how to pursue our relationship with God, having faith that God will find a way past our ignorance and sin to lead us where we have to go.

 

[NHB_MMA]

You are also seemingly unaware that Orthodox do not subscribe to the doctrine of transubstantiation.

Wow, I'm unaware too. I thought sure that Orthodox subscribed to transubstantiation.

 

[Oblio]

Wow, I'm unaware too. I thought sure that Orthodox subscribed to transubstantiation.

The Eucharist is simply a Mystery, we do not subscribe to Aristotolian speculations on the nature of the Holy Gifts.

 

[Gal328]

If we are His children He doesn't walk away from us. Well, in the book of Acts they baptized one on his confession of faith and they turned out to have been wrong about it. See Acts 8.

There is nothing wrong with judging one based on the evidence of his walk/work and his confession. But it is definitely wrong to judge anybody's heart, when the confession is there. Leave that up to God.

.....okay, but could you understand why I'm concerned for them?

i am going through hell right now because I let my troubles overcome me.

 

[Papilio]

the easy-believism promoted by the "sinner's prayer" is wrong. it places a de-emphasis on sanctification and ongoing conforming to the will of God, and an emphasis on "accepting Jesus," "making a decision for Christ," and "once saved, always saved." the gospel taught by the sinner's prayer and those who use it is actually a badspel, not "once saved, always saved," but "once made your own free-will decision to received Jesus in your heart without any real spiritual renewing by the Holy Spirit, once set yourself on the path to false security, not eternal security."
i'm not saying that there haven't been people in whom God has used the sinner's prayer to convict them of sin and turn them to Him, but in many cases, it's just an outward act, another person following the crowd at the revival meeting with the sentimental music and play on the emotions, another person lulled into a sense of false security by a badspel of "you're good enough, make a decision for Christ, and you're secure, guaranteed of eternal life."

You have NO idea! You are so wrong here.