The Sinner's Prayer cannot save anyone!

[Gal328]

This is not from a source within the Church, I don't think, but this article presents an important point--the sinner's prayer is unbiblical and must be stopped. Feeling repentant is a sign that God, by His Spirit, is callig you to Himself, but salvation does not come by simply mentally accepting Christ as a personal savior. Scripture never taught this, so where did it come from?

Praying the "sinner's prayer" is part of an easy gospel, which deceives us into believing that all we have to do is confess Christ and we are fully saved. This can lead those affected into great peril in the life to come, so we must all firmly reject this teaching and adopt the full biblical teachings regarding salvation. We don't pick and choose one or two verses and claim we have found the key to salvation. First of all, it's not locked to us, so no key is needed. What we must do is be faithful to Christ and do what we are commanded to do in scripture. We aren't saved by our works, we are saved by God's, which include baptism, receiving communion, marriage, etc. These graces are given to save us. To understand salvation we must take scripture as a whole, not one or two verses. The Bible can be twisted and distorted to mean other things, if not understood correctly.

Basil

This article is written by Wayne Jackson.

Source: http://www.christiancourier.com/questions/...yerQuestion.htm

“Ministers frequently tell lost people that they need to “pray the sinner’s prayer.” Exactly what is this “sinner’s prayer”? Is this prayer biblically based? If not, what is its origin?”
The so-called “sinner’s prayer” is a popular phenomenon in Protestant circles. It is employed at the conclusion of various denominational “revival” services in appeals to convince sincere people to “get saved.” It frequently is found as the ending in “gospel” tracts, urging folks to “repeat these words from the bottom of your heart.”

The “Sinner’s Prayer” takes various forms, all of which have the same general thrust. Here is one form of it:

“Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. I do now receive him as my Lord and personal Savior. I promise to serve you to the best of my ability. Please save me. In Jesus’ name, Amen.”
The following observations concerning this “prayer” should be carefully considered.

Is the “Sinner’s Prayer” in the New Testament?
The sentiments of this prayer are found nowhere in the literature of the New Testament that pertains to the sinner’s responsibility under the law of Christ. A careful study of the cases of conversion in the book of Acts will reveal that in not a single instance is the sinner instructed or encouraged to “pray” for his or her salvation. Rather, those honest souls who longed for redemption were admonished to “believe” on the Lord (Acts 16:31), “repent . . . and be immersed . . . for the forgiveness of [their] sins” (Acts 2:38; cf. 22:16), in order to enjoy a relationship with Christ (Gal. 3:27), and enter his spiritual body (1 Cor. 12:13).
What about Acts 2:21?
Acts 2:21 And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.
The claim that Acts 2:21 provides authority for the “sinner’s prayer” is baseless. The “call” contemplated in this passage was fulfilled when penitent sinners surrendered to the terms of the gospel plan of redemption, explicitly announced later on the same occasion. The “forgiveness of sins” (38) is the equivalent of “saved” (21). Accordingly, the “call” of verse 21 is obviously a generic term which embraces the “repent . . . and be immersed” which was commanded of believers in verse 38.
Moreover, this calling/obedience connection is further established in Acts 22:16. Note that the very act of submitting to the Lord’s command to be immersed is the manifestation of “calling” on his name.


Saying “Lord, Lord” Is Not Enough
Scripture elsewhere makes it very clear that the mere act of “calling” out the Lord’s name, in an attempt to access divine mercy, in the absence of obedience, is an exercise in futility.
“Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does [present tense – persistently does] the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Mt. 7:21).
Again, the Savior pointedly inquired:
“And why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say?” (Lk. 6:46).

Prayer Is for the Child of God
NOTE: See our article on the "The New Birth: Its Necessity And Composition" in the "Archives" section (October 6, 1999).
Prayer is an avenue of communication between a “child of God” and his heavenly Father. The model prayer begins: “Our Father in heaven . . .” (Mt. 6:9). One becomes a child of the Father by means of the “born-again” process (Jn. 3:3-5), not by praying.

Saul’s Prayers Did Not Save Him
Saul of Tarsus prayed for three days after arriving in the city of Damascus, yet his sins were not “washed away” until he was immersed in water in obedience to the divine command (Acts 9:11; 22:16). If there ever was a case of the “sinner’s prayer” being exercised, surely this was it; yet it was for naught.

Where Did the “Sinner’s Prayer” Originate?
The “sinner’s prayer” probably evolved, in some form or another, in the early days of the Protestant Reformation movement, as a misguided reaction against the Roman Catholic dogma of justification by means of meritorious works.
For example, Jacobus Faber (c. 1450-1536), who has been called “the father of the French reformation” (though he never formally left the Catholic Church), wrote a commentary on the epistles of Paul in 1512. (This was five years before Luther’s break with the Roman Church in Germany.) In this volume Faber argued that justification is obtained through faith without works (see McClintock & Strong, Cyclopedia, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1969, Vol. III, p. 441).

Later, rebelling against the “merit works” system of Romanism, Luther would contend that salvation is on the basis of “faith alone.” According to one biographer, Luther exclaimed:

“I, Doctor Martin Luther, unworthy herald of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, confess this article, that faith alone without works justifies before God” (J.H. Merle D’Aubigne, Life and Times of Martin Luther, Chicago: Moody, 1955, p. 56).
So convinced was Luther of this proposition that, when producing his own translation of the New Testament, he altered the text of Romans 3:28 to read: “. . . a man is justified by faith only.” The word “only” is not in any Greek manuscript available. Luther even rejected the divine origin of the book of James because of its emphasis on “works,” in addition to faith.

To believe, therefore, that one may be justified from sin, by simply praying the “sinner’s prayer” as a substitute for obedience to the plan of salvation, is to labor under a delusion that is void of biblical support. Undoubtedly, many who offer the “sinner’s prayer” are exceedingly sincere. Sincerity alone, however, is unavailing (Prov. 14:12; Acts 23:1; 26:9).

That's true. Its what's behind the sinners prayer. Its the heart of the person. Its the sincerety of thier faith.

 

[dhuisjen2]

O.K., someone's gotta defend the sinner's prayer here, so it may as well be a newbie like me.

The strongest scriptural defense for this prayer (IMHO) is Luke 18:10-14, focussing on "Lord be merciful to me, a sinner!" No religious observance, no sacraments, no history of obedience to God, not even an inference that he gave up his job at the IRS; just a penitent heart crying out for God's mercy, and "this man went down to his house justified."

Beyond that, if I turn from my Bible Baptist roots to my liberal European theological education, there is the matter that one of the few things that can be said about the historical character of Jesus is that he had "issues" with religious authorities. He was not out to set up a new set of bureaucratic hoops for people to jump through to please God, but rather to emphasize sincerity of the heart and humility before God as the ways to survive the coming judgement. It is thus in keeping with the character of his message that salvation would involve as little ritual as possible.

In terms of believer's baptism, I believe that in the historical context of the persecution of the early church a sincere profession of faith necessarily involved a public act of identification with all those who had believed on Jesus for their salvation. This was the outworking of Matthew 10:32-33. It is not a matter of baptismal waters having a saving effect, but of the person being ready to put their identification with Christ ahead of any concern for personal safety or well-being.

Luther's scholarly short-comings aside, the book of Romans (especially chapters 4 through 8 for us Goyim) eloquently sums up the essence of Christian faith as taught by Paul. Obviously there were bitter theological rivalries on these matters right from the start, as the book of Galatians so thoroughly demonstrates, but Paul stuck to his guns: anyone who wants to add traditional religious rituals in as a pre-condition for salvation ought to be castrated (Gal. 5:12)! I am not inclined to throw those kinds of flames, but I do jealously guard my liberties as a believer-priest.

I have no problem with anyone who wishes to enrich their experience of faith through believing in a magical element in the mystery of the sacraments. I believe it is entirely necessary for all sorts of believers to approach God's altar with a sense of awe and respect, and I can appreciate the unique way in which the Orthodox tradition brings that across to its followers. Quite obviously our salvation should be manifested both in an exemplary life ("fruit of the spirit") and in obedience to the direct commands given in the gospels (including baptism, the Eucharist service in remembrance of Christ's passion, and respect for the sanctity of marriage) while never forgetting our status as sinners. Far be it from me to belittle these elements of a believer's life. My point would only be that, in terms of Romans 6, this is not our means of getting God to enter into our lives to save us, but our response to the love that Christ has spread around in our hearts at the moment of salvation.

If the issue is receiving God's grace as a free gift, becoming regenerated thereby and living a life of submission to the glory of God, why make that process any more complicated than necessary? Why not just let go of the power struggles over sacrament recognition between denominations, believe that God looks on the heart, and trust him to save those who sincerely seek for his mercy, whether they follow our favorite formulas or not? Why can't the sinner's prayer be one legitimate means of receiving this mercy? (Rhetorical question this time.)

Grace and Peace, David

 

[holdon]

That's true. Its what's behind the sinners prayer. Its the heart of the person. Its the sincerety of thier faith.

Isn't it only pharisees that question the sinner's prayer?

Luke 18:9
And he spoke also to some, who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and made nothing of all the rest of men, this parable:
18:10
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer.
18:11 The Pharisee, standing, prayed thus to himself: God, I thank thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer.
18:12 I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain. 18:13 And the tax-gatherer, standing afar off, would not lift up even his eyes to heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, O God, have compassion on me, the sinner.
18:14 I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than that other. For every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.

 

[Oblio]

I have no problem with anyone who wishes to enrich their experience of faith through believing in a magical element in the mystery of the sacraments.

With all due respect, this is a strawman. The Holy Mysteries of God are not magic.

 

[Optimax]

Comments on the “Sinner’s Prayer”:

Is the sinners prayer scriptural? In other words, is there scripture that says to do what the prayer leads people to say out loud what they believe.

Most definetly:

Jn 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Paul explained how to be born again.


Ro 10:9-11
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


The above scripture can not be any more clear about how to be saved. God is not trying to keep it secret or make it hard. He made it very, very simple, so that anybody, even someone as simple as me, could do it.

Does everybody that says the prayer do what it says about believing and confessing. Maybe not, that is for God to judge not me. But the vast majority that do it receive what Jesus said we must do, they receive the new birth and become what this verse says:

2 Co 5:17

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Its Great isn’t it. That God loves us enough to tell us how. Glory be unto Him.

 

[BarbB]

bstow - welcome to CF!

I agree that the Sinner's Prayer says what it says and that what it says is in the Bible, but some believe that just to say it makes it so and that's just not true. Some go through altar call after altar call never understanding why it doesn't "take". Others pray the sinner's prayer and then live like hell. In other words, the sinner's prayer does not bring salvation. The heart behind the sinner's prayer must be ready. If the heart is ready the sinner's prayer is superfluous.

 

[vanshan]

Yup, well that is where the HOly Spirit comes into action in the life of a believer, as well as before that.

In what way does the Holy Spirit work? Do you think He can only move upon us in invisible ways? Do you think that because we call Him a Spirit, that He only acts in unseen, immaterial ways? Certainly, Christians have believed from Pentecost that it is God's Spirit that makes the Holy Mysteries, or as the Roman Catholics call them, sacraments, salvific. The Holy Spirit fills the waters of baptism, making them an instrument of union to Christ. The Holy Spirit comes down upon the loaves of bread and wine offered in the Church and performs a miracle in which they become the Blood and Body of our Lord, to the santifying of our bodies and salvation of our souls. It is through these mysteries that "we become partakers of Christ's Divine nature." The Holy Spirit fills marriages performed by the true Church, so that even that union becomes an instrument of salvation for those mystically joined in it. The Spirit works through tangible things to santify us, not just invisibly in our hearts and minds.

Basil

 

[vanshan]

"Faith alone, however, is not sufficient for salvation. It must be accompanied by a santified life, according to the Lord's commandments: 'Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven' (Matthew 7:21). The will of the heavenly Father is formulated in His commandments: 'He who has My commandments and keeps them,it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him' (John 14:21-23). According to the word of God, faith and works are of equal significance. One is not superior to the other.

In order for faith to be true, and for the works to be sanctified, Divine Grace is necessary. The Holy Spirit descended from heaven to the Apostles and through them to all the faithful. What occurred with the Apostles occurs now through their successors, according to the order decreed by the Holy Spirit. Thus Divine Grace remains constantly in our Church within the multitude of the faithful. . . grace does not come and is not received other than by the Holy Mysteries that are performed by the Apostles or their successors, as the Lord Himself decreed in the Church.

. . .

The Mysteries are streams of Divine Grace that irrigate the faithful with life. There is no other way, no other means for one to receive Divine Grace. And whoever teaches another path is unorthodox and deceived.

. . .

The Lord sent his Apostles comanding them to: 'Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you.' (Matthew 28:19-20). And the Apostles obeyed this command. But because they wouldn't live forever, since their work must be continued to all ages, they left their successors everywhere by God's decree. These successors, shepherds and teachers, would perform the divine services of the Holy Mysteries in fulfilling the task of salvation. This is exactly what happens today. For the priests it is enough what the Lord told the Apostles: 'He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.' (Luke 10:16)."

--Saint Theophan the Recluse


Anyone who denies that the salvation God provides is manifest in the Holy Mysteries given through the Church, has distorted the Gospel, according to Saint Theophan, whom is in agreement with the Church Fathers and all records we have of what Christians have believed, and how they have interpreted the scriptures, prior to the reformation.

Basil

 

[Leah]

I'm Pentacostal and I agree that the sinner's prayer can't save anybody. Until the sinner is drawn by God and willing to repent and begin a life under the blood of Jesus, he is just another unrepentant sinner undergoing a false conversion.

EXACTLY! I remember how a christian woman in my church, whom I spoke with about some things that bothered me and where on my mind, wanted me to repeat after her by use of the sinner's prayer! That was NOT what I felt because I was already saved by His grace and mercy and I do not believe in saying a certain prayer that is not from the heart and/or doesn't remotely pertain to your current circumstances! I felt very insulted and ignored. People who do this are saying empty and meaningless words, which I gurantee you the Father aint even trying to hear that!

Sorry that I seem a bit 'hype' about this topic but I strongly disagree with the sinner's prayer. If it's not from the heart, DON'T SAY IT.

 

[Papilio]

This is not from a source within the Church, I don't think, but this article presents an important point--the sinner's prayer is unbiblical and must be stopped. Feeling repentant is a sign that God, by His Spirit, is callig you to Himself, but salvation does not come by simply mentally accepting Christ as a personal savior. Scripture never taught this, so where did it come from?

Praying the "sinner's prayer" is part of an easy gospel, which deceives us into believing that all we have to do is confess Christ and we are fully saved. This can lead those affected into great peril in the life to come, so we must all firmly reject this teaching and adopt the full biblical teachings regarding salvation. We don't pick and choose one or two verses and claim we have found the key to salvation. First of all, it's not locked to us, so no key is needed. What we must do is be faithful to Christ and do what we are commanded to do in scripture. We aren't saved by our works, we are saved by God's, which include baptism, receiving communion, marriage, etc. These graces are given to save us. To understand salvation we must take scripture as a whole, not one or two verses. The Bible can be twisted and distorted to mean other things, if not understood correctly.

Basil

This article is written by Wayne Jackson.

Source: http://www.christiancourier.com/questions/...yerQuestion.htm

“Ministers frequently tell lost people that they need to “pray the sinner’s prayer.” Exactly what is this “sinner’s prayer”? Is this prayer biblically based? If not, what is its origin?”
The so-called “sinner’s prayer” is a popular phenomenon in Protestant circles. It is employed at the conclusion of various denominational “revival” services in appeals to convince sincere people to “get saved.” It frequently is found as the ending in “gospel” tracts, urging folks to “repeat these words from the bottom of your heart.”

The “Sinner’s Prayer” takes various forms, all of which have the same general thrust. Here is one form of it:

“Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. I do now receive him as my Lord and personal Savior. I promise to serve you to the best of my ability. Please save me. In Jesus’ name, Amen.”
The following observations concerning this “prayer” should be carefully considered.

Is the “Sinner’s Prayer” in the New Testament?
The sentiments of this prayer are found nowhere in the literature of the New Testament that pertains to the sinner’s responsibility under the law of Christ. A careful study of the cases of conversion in the book of Acts will reveal that in not a single instance is the sinner instructed or encouraged to “pray” for his or her salvation. Rather, those honest souls who longed for redemption were admonished to “believe” on the Lord (Acts 16:31), “repent . . . and be immersed . . . for the forgiveness of [their] sins” (Acts 2:38; cf. 22:16), in order to enjoy a relationship with Christ (Gal. 3:27), and enter his spiritual body (1 Cor. 12:13).
What about Acts 2:21?
Acts 2:21 And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.
The claim that Acts 2:21 provides authority for the “sinner’s prayer” is baseless. The “call” contemplated in this passage was fulfilled when penitent sinners surrendered to the terms of the gospel plan of redemption, explicitly announced later on the same occasion. The “forgiveness of sins” (38) is the equivalent of “saved” (21). Accordingly, the “call” of verse 21 is obviously a generic term which embraces the “repent . . . and be immersed” which was commanded of believers in verse 38.
Moreover, this calling/obedience connection is further established in Acts 22:16. Note that the very act of submitting to the Lord’s command to be immersed is the manifestation of “calling” on his name.


Saying “Lord, Lord” Is Not Enough
Scripture elsewhere makes it very clear that the mere act of “calling” out the Lord’s name, in an attempt to access divine mercy, in the absence of obedience, is an exercise in futility.
“Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does [present tense – persistently does] the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Mt. 7:21).
Again, the Savior pointedly inquired:
“And why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say?” (Lk. 6:46).

Prayer Is for the Child of God
NOTE: See our article on the "The New Birth: Its Necessity And Composition" in the "Archives" section (October 6, 1999).
Prayer is an avenue of communication between a “child of God” and his heavenly Father. The model prayer begins: “Our Father in heaven . . .” (Mt. 6:9). One becomes a child of the Father by means of the “born-again” process (Jn. 3:3-5), not by praying.

Saul’s Prayers Did Not Save Him
Saul of Tarsus prayed for three days after arriving in the city of Damascus, yet his sins were not “washed away” until he was immersed in water in obedience to the divine command (Acts 9:11; 22:16). If there ever was a case of the “sinner’s prayer” being exercised, surely this was it; yet it was for naught.

Where Did the “Sinner’s Prayer” Originate?
The “sinner’s prayer” probably evolved, in some form or another, in the early days of the Protestant Reformation movement, as a misguided reaction against the Roman Catholic dogma of justification by means of meritorious works.
For example, Jacobus Faber (c. 1450-1536), who has been called “the father of the French reformation” (though he never formally left the Catholic Church), wrote a commentary on the epistles of Paul in 1512. (This was five years before Luther’s break with the Roman Church in Germany.) In this volume Faber argued that justification is obtained through faith without works (see McClintock & Strong, Cyclopedia, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1969, Vol. III, p. 441).

Later, rebelling against the “merit works” system of Romanism, Luther would contend that salvation is on the basis of “faith alone.” According to one biographer, Luther exclaimed:

“I, Doctor Martin Luther, unworthy herald of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, confess this article, that faith alone without works justifies before God” (J.H. Merle D’Aubigne, Life and Times of Martin Luther, Chicago: Moody, 1955, p. 56).
So convinced was Luther of this proposition that, when producing his own translation of the New Testament, he altered the text of Romans 3:28 to read: “. . . a man is justified by faith only.” The word “only” is not in any Greek manuscript available. Luther even rejected the divine origin of the book of James because of its emphasis on “works,” in addition to faith.

To believe, therefore, that one may be justified from sin, by simply praying the “sinner’s prayer” as a substitute for obedience to the plan of salvation, is to labor under a delusion that is void of biblical support. Undoubtedly, many who offer the “sinner’s prayer” are exceedingly sincere. Sincerity alone, however, is unavailing (Prov. 14:12; Acts 23:1; 26:9).

This is totally rediculous. ANYTIME a person accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior, not necessarily with their mouth, but, in their heart, they become "Born Again" and are saved.

 

[Melethiel]

This is totally rediculous. ANYTIME a person accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior, not necessarily with their mouth, but, in their heart, they become "Born Again" and are saved.

What, exactly, is the meaning of "accept Jesus as your Lord'n'Savior"?

 

[lmnop9876]

the easy-believism promoted by the "sinner's prayer" is wrong. it places a de-emphasis on sanctification and ongoing conforming to the will of God, and an emphasis on "accepting Jesus," "making a decision for Christ," and "once saved, always saved." the gospel taught by the sinner's prayer and those who use it is actually a badspel, not "once saved, always saved," but "once made your own free-will decision to received Jesus in your heart without any real spiritual renewing by the Holy Spirit, once set yourself on the path to false security, not eternal security."
i'm not saying that there haven't been people in whom God has used the sinner's prayer to convict them of sin and turn them to Him, but in many cases, it's just an outward act, another person following the crowd at the revival meeting with the sentimental music and play on the emotions, another person lulled into a sense of false security by a badspel of "you're good enough, make a decision for Christ, and you're secure, guaranteed of eternal life."

 

[dhuisjen2]

With all due respect, this is a strawman. The Holy Mysteries of God are not magic.

And with all due respect to you, while I honestly do not intend the term in a polemic fashion, by the dictionary definition they are magic: "any power or force that seems mysterious or hard to explain" (Webster 1966); "the art of performing... rituals to seek to... govern certain natural or supernatural forces."(Oxford Dictionary of Sociology).

I understand the offence that some take to the term in the sense of "pre-logical thought", and I do not wish to imply anything against your tradition. IMHO magic can be a very good thing! I simply do not subscribe to the magic (in terms of the above definitions) of transsubstantiation as a necessary element of my salvation.

Blessings, David

 

[Iollain]

In what way does the Holy Spirit work? Do you think He can only move upon us in invisible ways? Do you think that because we call Him a Spirit, that He only acts in unseen, immaterial ways? Certainly, Christians have believed from Pentecost that it is God's Spirit that makes the Holy Mysteries, or as the Roman Catholics call them, sacraments, salvific. The Holy Spirit fills the waters of baptism, making them an instrument of union to Christ. The Holy Spirit comes down upon the loaves of bread and wine offered in the Church and performs a miracle in which they become the Blood and Body of our Lord, to the santifying of our bodies and salvation of our souls. It is through these mysteries that "we become partakers of Christ's Divine nature." The Holy Spirit fills marriages performed by the true Church, so that even that union becomes an instrument of salvation for those mystically joined in it. The Spirit works through tangible things to santify us, not just invisibly in our hearts and minds.

Basil

I wouldn't know, i'm not in your church Basil.

 

[GraceInHim]

Sinners prayer is a start.. jmho

 

[woobadooba]

The important point is that salvation is not completed when a person is called to Christ by faith through the Holy Spirit. Just believing or praying a sinner's prayer is just the beginning, from which one should begin living their live in obedience to Christ. Baptism yokes us to Him, communion makes us partakers of His divine nature, etc. These are all part of our salvation, which we cannot neglect. Taking a few scriptures out of context mislead many, but taken as a whole we get a clearer picture of the truth.

Basil

I agree that prayer doesn't save us.

Yet, at the same time I believe that as soon as we receive Jesus Christ into our hearts we are saved.

The question however is: What are we saved from?

We are saved from the condemnation of past sins.

But salvation doesn't stop there. For, like sanctification, it is a process. In other words, God wills to save us not merely from the guilt of sin, but also from the power and nature of it, thus bringing His salvific plan to perfection within us.

And what we allow God to do in, and through us for the duration of our lives after we receive Him into our hearts, will determine the outcome of our fate.

But no matter what way you look at it, it is only by God's grace that we are saved.

 

[NHB_MMA]

I am agreeing more with the Orthodox thinking behind salvation: repentence, baptism, receiving of the Holy Spirit (correct me if I've mistated anything). I do not think a sinner's prayer will save someone...if he is relying solely on the sinner's prayer. To me, if you say "forgive me" but never really progress beyond that point, you never really repented anyway. However, a person does have to go through point A to get to point B, point C, and beyond. My grandfather repented very late in his life and was never baptised and never attended church as his final weeks were spent hospitalized. I was not there when he prayed with my other family members, but the accounts of it made it sound very sincere and my grandmother was overjoyed by it. I cannot think that his salvation would not be valid simply because he could fulfill some sacraments given his condition. I don't know what the OC or RCC teaches in this case.

I believe that a sinner's prayer saves you...at that moment. However, I am speaking of a sincere sinner's prayer and real repentance would acknowledge at that time that there is further work to be done and things won't be quite the same from that point forward.

 

[Oblio]

And with all due respect to you, while I honestly do not intend the term in a polemic fashion, by the dictionary definition they are magic: "any power or force that seems mysterious or hard to explain" (Webster 1966); "the art of performing... rituals to seek to... govern certain natural or supernatural forces."(Oxford Dictionary of Sociology).



I understand the offence that some take to the term in the sense of "pre-logical thought", and I do not wish to imply anything against your tradition. IMHO magic can be a very good thing! I simply do not subscribe to the magic (in terms of the above definitions) of transsubstantiation as a necessary element of my salvation.

Then I would suggest that you use another word, because it does not apply and in common usage, especially since it is most often used in the context of paganism, it is misleading and offensive.

You are also seemingly unaware that Orthodox do not subscribe to the doctrine of transubstantiation.

As a final item, I would note that by your usage, we could apply the the term magic to prayer, the Incarnation and even Salvation itself. Certainly improper and misleading.

 

[vanshan]

My grandfather repented very late in his life and was never baptised and never attended church as his final weeks were spent hospitalized. I was not there when he prayed with my other family members, but the accounts of it made it sound very sincere and my grandmother was overjoyed by it. I cannot think that his salvation would not be valid simply because he could fulfill some sacraments given his condition. I don't know what the OC or RCC teaches in this case.

There are exceptions, because God hasn't provided the Orthodox Church and its Holy Mysteries to be legalistic, they are provided out of love and mercy for mankind. The normal course of action is to believe, be baptised, receiving the Holy Spirit, and receive Holy Communion, among the other sacramental ways God provides us to be transfigured. These are gifts, through which we receive a greater presence of the Holy Spirit in our mortal bodies, or Divine Grace, as Saint Theophan expressed it. We begin to be tranformed back into the condition of mankind prior to the fall, becoming like God. One prayer cannot complete this transformation. We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved in the end. We hold on to the hope of salvation, based not our our actions, but on God's grace alone. We have no full assurance of salvation, because we are all in the process of being saved, by God's grace. He is translating of from darkness to the kingdom of light, as we cooperate with this transformation. We are participants in the process of salvation, although it is God who causes the increase. It's His love and power that saves us, not our efforts, however, without laboring, our faith is vain. We can believe and not be saved in the end, if no other labors are endured.

An exception to the normal process of salvation would be many martyrs of the Church, who were inspired to confess Christ right before being slain by godless authorities, especially under the persecutions of the Romans. The thief on the cross was another exception. He was not baptised in water, but God saved Him, seeing his faith, the thief was baptised in his own blood. These are to be seen as evidence of God's wonderous mercy, but these do not prove baptism and the other holy mysteries are unecessary, instead they are the exceptions which prove the rule--that is because these incidents were rare instances that are recorded, they prove that the theosis process of salvation is the normal way God saves us.

Basil

 

[Ethan_Fetch]

I'm still having a hard time understanding this thread.

Most Protestants don't believe that "the sinners prayer" is a means of grace. There may be some who do, but they certainly aren't anything like a majority.

On the other hand, things like the sinners prayer (which has a number of formats anyway and is often just the admission of a afew essential elements: repentance, expression of trust in the work of Christ, etc.) can be an honest and faithful expression of what it confesses.

So, if the OP seeks to take issue with churches or persons who believe that recitation of a formula saves you, then there really isn't any quarrel.

But if the point is that justification, being declared righteous for the sake of Christ, rests on something more than a true faith in the atonement He has made for His people, and that things like the "sinners prayer" can be a proper articulation of this, then I say,

Phoooey.