The Sinner's Prayer cannot save anyone!

[jamesMarion]

In my opinion the only thing wrong with the sinner's prayer is asking the candidate to feel sorry for their sins. Emotions are a non-issue. What you think about Jesus Christ is the issue. I changed my mind about the fact that "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh; and that He died for my sins" and "poof" I was / still am saved. No water; thank you.

 

[woobadooba]

In my opinion the only thing wrong with the sinner's prayer is asking the candidate to feel sorry for their sins. Emotions are a non-issue. What you think about Jesus Christ is the issue.

But our relationship with Jesus Christ is emotional. Therefore, it isn't wrong to feel sorry for your sins, since Jesus paid such a great price to redeem you from the condemnation of them.

I changed my mind about the fact that "Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh; and that He died for my sins" and "poof" I was / still am saved. No water; thank you.

What do you mean by this? Are you implying that it isn't necessary for your salvation to believe these things, or are you just being sarcastic?

 

[vanshan]

I'm still having a hard time understanding this thread.

Most Protestants don't believe that "the sinners prayer" is a means of grace. There may be some who do, but they certainly aren't anything like a majority.

There exists many who believe that praying a sincere prayer of repentance is all that is required to be saved. One baptist source I read stated that when one makes Jesus their personal savior, through repentance, their sins are forgiven, past, present, and future. They believe from that instant they have an assurance ("Blessed Assurance") that they are saved. They may still try to live for Christ, but it is in no way connected to their salvation. Nothing else, other than maintaining faith, is required to be saved in the end, which can lead to spiritual complacency, since nothing else needs to be done. The Billy Graham crusades, among many other evangelical and fundamentalist "revivals" take a similar approach. Many tracts are based on this same distored view of salvation. This view is quite common among protestants--when in the charismatic movement, I believed this to be true also.

Basil

 

[Iollain]

Ok OP, what do you suggest we tell a new believer to do?

 

[Iollain]

What, exactly, is the meaning of "accept Jesus as your Lord'n'Savior"?

this is easy, it is when someone hears the gospel and is pricked in their heart with an emotion of belief in the Son of God who died for their sins, and they feel a need to believe this and recognize they are a sinner, and make a decision to repent of their sins and believe. We are to have faith with them not start telling them that they might just not be good ground for the word to fall into.

 

[jamesMarion]

Not sarcastic. At one time I did not believe the statement. After I accepted the truth, I was / still am saved. All that is needed is a mental change of mind. Without proper training, emotions can lie to you. No sacraments needed.

 

[vanshan]

Ok OP, what do you suggest we tell a new believer to do?

I would first warn them, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21), so that they will know that this is the beginning of their tranformation. I would them to submit to the guidance of the Church, which Christ heads. The Lord sent His Apostles telling them: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20) The Church is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), so I would encourage them to listen to the Church's guidance and prescriptions for sin, because through life in the Church, God provides His Grace which saves us. We are commanded not the forsake assembling together, because it is in the bosom of God's Church that we are saved and receive the Holy Mysteries God created to sanctify us to salvation.

Basil

 

[theend0218]

I agree that too often in certain settings salvation is offered in such a way that one might think all that is required is to "walk to the front" of the service, shake someone's hand, etc. Or, the "sinners pray" may be used as though it were a magic wand. However, I think we need to be careful that we do not limit the way God may bring His children to Himself. How can it not be true that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved? Perhaps this can be misunderstood. Yet, I would not want to make the way of salvation so difficult or limited that God must save in only one way or tradition. God is in the heavens and does whatever He pleases.

 

[vanshan]

Not sarcastic. At one time I did not believe the statement. After I accepted the truth, I was / still am saved. All that is needed is a mental change of mind. Without proper training, emotions can lie to you. No sacraments needed.

The first thought that came to mind was a sarcastic reply, "Does Jesus know?" I apologize.

I do have trouble fathoming how you, and those who agree with you who are quite a few, although still a very small fraction of Christianity as a whole, come to the conclusion that mental acceptance of Christ as the Son of God and the work of repentance is all that is needed. God didn't say this in scripture (and it can only be believed by "lifting" a couple scriptures and using them out of context). We are to have faith, be baptized, and follow Christ's precepts. We don't earn salvation, we are transformed by God in response to our obedience.

Basil

 

[Weasel7711]

Saying “Lord, Lord” Is Not Enough
Scripture elsewhere makes it very clear that the mere act of “calling” out the Lord’s name, in an attempt to access divine mercy, in the absence of obedience, is an exercise in futility.
“Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does [present tense – persistently does] the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Mt. 7:21).
Again, the Savior pointedly inquired:
“And why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say?” (Lk. 6:46).

I am not neccesarily disagreeing with the article, I am wondering where the verse "all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" comes in?

 

[Splayd]

Let's get some perspective here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the prayer itself. Surely noone could be suggesting that someone wishing to know Christ shouldn't talk to God about it, shouldn't confess their sins or shouldn't express their desire for Jesus to be Lord of their life. If that's wrong, I'm interested to hear what's right.

Rather I'd suggest the implication here is that it's wrong if the prayer is taught as a complete fix-all whereby someone can say the prayer and then go about their merry way, unchanged and living just as they did before they said it but are now "saved". If that's the point of the OP I don't expect you'll find any disagreement here. I've never heard anyone teach such things. That would be reducing the words to some magical formula.

By the same reasoning Baptism, Communion, Works or any other "thing" cannot save anyone. There are no magic words or magic action that can bring about salvation. It's a free gift of God given by His grace. Just as someone can be insincere and lacking faith when they pray a prayer, they can be lacking those things when they get baptised or perform works. It's the heart that God sees and the motivation behind the action that He is interested in.

I suppose the danger that is present with crusades, rallies, revivals (whatever term you want to use) where lots of people hear a message and respond with a prayer that "makes them a christian" is that they'll go away believing they've got their "life insurance" all sorted and go on living just as before. BUT that's not a sincere prayer of faith anyway - that's a selfish prayer. Surely we can't deprive them that opportunity to respond to the Gospel just in case they leave without salvation, when they came without it anyway. Ideally in those situations the people that "come forward" are followed up, invited to church, taught and nurtured.

Surely "Christians" are meant to be in a relationship with God. I'd suggest that the "sinners prayer" is a fitting introduction for someone that's never known God; a reasonable way to commence that relationship. As is any relationship, one conversation doesn't mean you're relationship is right though. You don't leave it at that and walk away. If you do, it never really was a relationship at all. Rather - It grows, it develops. You continue the communication, you spend more time together, you express your relationship through your words and your actions.

 

[vanshan]

I am not neccesarily disagreeing with the article, I am wondering where the verse "all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" comes in?

Some verses seem to contradict one another, but they don't--if we believe they do, we miss something in our interpretation of them.

The verse about "those who call upon the Lord will be saved" seems to contradict Matthew 7:21, which says, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven . . ." However, the reality is that the couple of verses that says that if we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord or if we call upon the Lord we will be saved, only show us part of the total picture of salvation. Yes, of course we come to a point where we call upon the Lord, but is this the end?

Basil

 

[vanshan]

How can it not be true that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved? Perhaps this can be misunderstood. Yet, I would not want to make the way of salvation so difficult or limited that God must save in only one way or tradition. God is in the heavens and does whatever He pleases.

God in His great mercy and love for mankind does as He pleases, saving whom He will save. That is definitely true, because the Church has shown many examples of spontaeous conversions, confessions of faith, or repentance followed by quick death, with those who called upon God were saved, however, this is still not the normal way we are saved. Let's not forget the Lord's words warning us that the path is narrow. We sometimes think we are doing a great work by receiving great numbers of people at an "altar call," but this decision to follow Christ is the beginning of a difficult transformation for those who will be saved. Many will not make it, if Christ's words are true. We must struggle to hold fast to our confession of faith, submit ourselves to the care of God's hospital for sinners (the Church), and "fight the good fight of faith."

Basil

 

[nephilimiyr]

Some verses seem to contradict one another, but they don't--if we believe they do, we miss something in our interpretation of them.

The verse about "those who call upon the Lord will be saved" seems to contradict Matthew 7:21, which says, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven . . ." However, the reality is that the couple of verses that says that if we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord or if we call upon the Lord we will be saved, only show us part of the total picture of salvation. Yes, of course we come to a point where we call upon the Lord, but is this the end?

No it certainly is not the end. God looks at the hearts of people and He speaks to the hearts of people. He knows who is receptive to Him and who isn't. He knows who is just repeating words, He knows who is just acting holy, and He knows who don't have faith in Him.

 

[vanshan]

No it certainly is not the end. God looks at the hearts of people and He speaks to the hearts of people. He knows who is receptive to Him and who isn't. He knows who is just repeating words, He knows who is just acting holy, and He knows who don't have faith in Him.

And He knows to whom He has imparted the Divine Grace given by the Holy Spirit in the mysteries of communion, confession, matrimony, etc. These are offered to us for the working out of our salvation, since believing alone doesn't have the power to transform us.

Basil

 

[seekingpurity047]

And He knows to whom He has imparted the Divine Grace given by the Holy Spirit in the mysteries of communion, confession, matrimony, etc. These are offered to us for the working out of our salvation, since believing alone doesn't have the power to transform us.

Basil

Indeed, believing alone doesn't have the power to transform us, however... God alone has the power to transform us. We do not transform ourselves, but it is God who does it. He grants repentance, He saves, He does all the work. Therefore, salvation is by faith alone, because God does it all. Once we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, we will inevitably desire to cherish Christ and desire to follow His commandments.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[Splayd]

Vanshan - from your perspective can anyone ever be certain of their salvation?

Just curious.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Some verses seem to contradict one another, but they don't--if we believe they do, we miss something in our interpretation of them.

The verse about "those who call upon the Lord will be saved" seems to contradict Matthew 7:21, which says, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven . . ." However, the reality is that the couple of verses that says that if we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord or if we call upon the Lord we will be saved, only show us part of the total picture of salvation. Yes, of course we come to a point where we call upon the Lord, but is this the end?

Basil

The End? By no means. But it is the beginning, the beginning of God working in us. Therefore, salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. God works in us, not us working.

Phil 2:12-13 says "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

Clearly, it is God who works in us so that we may work out our salvation with fear and trembling. God works out our salvation for us. He justifies, He sanctifies, He glorifies. Recognize that sanctification is the work of Christ, not man, for Eph. 5:26 says, "that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word." You can't lose your salvation, for the work on the cross is finished, just like Jesus said.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[seekingpurity047]

The first thought that came to mind was a sarcastic reply, "Does Jesus know?" I apologize.

I do have trouble fathoming how you, and those who agree with you who are quite a few, although still a very small fraction of Christianity as a whole, come to the conclusion that mental acceptance of Christ as the Son of God and the work of repentance is all that is needed. God didn't say this in scripture (and it can only be believed by "lifting" a couple scriptures and using them out of context). We are to have faith, be baptized, and follow Christ's precepts. We don't earn salvation, we are transformed by God in response to our obedience.

Basil

Out of context verses? Let's see.

"Jesus said, "The Kingdom of heaven is at hand; Repent and believe the gospel." Mk. 1:14-15

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotton Son so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." Jn. 3:16

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus." Rom. 8:1

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9

"And they said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved." Acts 16:31

"The righteous shall live by faith." Hab. 2:4

"And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness" Rom. 4:5

There are many other verses. We don't need to be baptized in order to be saved, we don't need to do any sacraments in order to be saved, we don't need to do any works whatsoever. Our works do not contribute to our salvation.

We must ask the question, why do we do works? Do we do them in order to be saved, or do we do them becuase we are saved? Think about it.

If the former is true, then we rape God of His glory becuase we do things for our own selfish ambitions and we do not trust in Christ alone for our salvation. Instead, we trust in Christ and our works. It's as if Christ's death is insufficient.

I finish this post with a quote by John Owen.

"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect."

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[Weasel7711]

Some verses seem to contradict one another, but they don't--if we believe they do, we miss something in our interpretation of them.

The verse about "those who call upon the Lord will be saved" seems to contradict Matthew 7:21, which says, "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven . . ." However, the reality is that the couple of verses that says that if we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord or if we call upon the Lord we will be saved, only show us part of the total picture of salvation. Yes, of course we come to a point where we call upon the Lord, but is this the end?

Basil

agreed