The Sin of Eve

[Neogaia777]

It relates to spiritual death not physical death.

Ok, she saw that she was not at all changed by it yet then, etc...

God Bless!

 

[YahuahSaves]

I believe the Bible purposely leaves certain details out in order for us to use our own minds to discern, or put two and two together, and use logic and/or reason, etc...

God Bless!

Actually it is the Holy Spirit that discerns, not our own human logic.

 

[Neogaia777]

Actually it is the Holy Spirit that discerns, not our own human logic.

The Holy Spirit uses logic and/or reason...

Isaiah 1:18

God Bless!

 

[YahuahSaves]

Ok, she saw that she was not at all changed by it yet then, etc...

God Bless!

Once their eyes were opened they hid themselves in shame, this has been the main cause of our separation from God.

They knew they did wrong, but never asked for forgiveness... haven't you ever wondered why?
Perhaps God already knew the choice would be made by Adam and Eve and why the Lamb was slain (Jesus Christ) before the beginning of the world... He already had our redemption in mind before the fall.

 

[YahuahSaves]

The Holy Spirit uses logic and/or reason...

Isaiah 1:18

God Bless!

Sure, but Gods logic and understanding far surpasses our own.

 

[Neogaia777]

Once their eyes were opened they hid themselves in shame, this has been the main cause of our separation from God.

They knew they did wrong, but never asked for forgiveness... haven't you ever wondered why?
Perhaps God already knew the choice would be made by Adam and Eve and why the Lamb was slain (Jesus Christ) before the beginning of the world... He already had our redemption in mind before the fall.

Perhaps, to the latter part of what you just said, etc...?

And as to the former, I don't think they were wise enough to ask for forgiveness yet, etc, why they tried to transfer and/or shift blame around I think, etc, plus the were still very much afraid, etc, and fear can sometimes do funny things to the mind sometimes, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Sure, but Gods logic and understanding far surpasses our own.

Well, who do you think we are talking to when we are using pure and 100% undefiled logic and/or reason in our minds, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

@Pipp@

I have done my best, and still do try to do my best, to arrive at my conclusions through pure and anadulterated/undefiled logic and/or reason, etc...

One of the ways I can know I am truly hearing from God the Spirit at the time, etc...

I do not always do it perfectly, but it is one of the ways I can know or can tell at the time, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Strong in Him]

When did Eve become evil?

She didn't, she was deceived.
She had not been created when God commanded Adam not to eat from the tree, and there is no record of God telling her.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

As far as Eve is concerned, my reading of the passage leads me to think that the Serpent took advantange of Eve's strengths as a woman -- a woman who was created in the Image of God.

The Serpent used sophistry on her and manipulated the conversation to get her to think she was looking upon an opportunity to do something more useful, more fair, and more enlightened.

Compare how Eve "evaluates" the supposed opportunities before her with how the woman of Proverbs 31 evaluates opportunities in life. Notice any similarities? I do. The main difference is that Eve had a deceptive Serpent talking in her ear while the Proverbs 31 woman did not.

Eve was deceived into sinning. She didn't become "evil." She made a useful evaluation with the wrong ideas and the wrong definitions.

No, she didn't become evil, but she, along with Adam, did become a sinner and, thereby, fully mortal that day when God separated both of them from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life.

So, I'm thinking, we should go a little easier on Eve and read the text as implying that she was deceived, not that she suddenly became a rebellious "Jezebel."

 

[YahuahSaves]

As far as Eve is concerned, my reading of the passage leads me to think that the Serpent took advantange of Eve's strengths as a woman -- a woman who was created in the Image of God.

The Serpent used sophistry on her and manipulated the conversation to get her to think she was looking upon an opportunity to do something more useful, more fair, and more enlightened.

Compare how Eve "evaluates" the supposed opportunities before her with how the woman of Proverbs 31 evaluates opportunities in life. Notice any similarities? I do. The main difference is that Eve had a deceptive Serpent talking in her ear while the Proverbs 31 woman did not.

Eve was deceived into sinning. She didn't become "evil." She made a useful evaluation with the wrong ideas and the wrong definitions.

No, she didn't become evil, but she, along with Adam, did become sinners and, thereby, fully mortal that day when God separated them from the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life.

So, I'm thinking, we should go a little easier on Eve and read the text as implying that she was deceived, not that she suddenly became a rebellious "Jezebel."

I find your take on Eve's "reasoning" after considering the serpents suggestion interesting... I have heard someone say once she loved God and admired him so much, she wanted to be more like him (like a child does a parent). It's difficult to know for certain what her intentions were, since the scripture is so vague.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I find your take on Eve's "reasoning" after considering the serpents suggestion interesting... I have heard someone say once she loved God and admired him so much, she wanted to be more like him (like a child does a parent). It's difficult to know for certain what her intentions were, since the scripture is so vague.

Yes, the text is vague and offers little detail on her actual thinking. However, we do see in the same passage that God is willing to at least partially place substantive blame upon the Serpent. So, he has some undeniable fault in the Fall of Eve and Adam.

And we also see Paul the Apostle accentuating the idea that "Eve was deceived, and thus fell into trangression" rather than saying that she was some kind of outright rebel.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes, the text is vague and offers little detail on her actual thinking. However, we do see in the same passage that God is willing to at least partially place substantive blame upon the Serpent. So, he has some undeniable fault in the Fall of Eve and Adam.

And we also see Paul the Apostle accentuating the idea that "Eve was deceived, and thus fell into trangression" rather than saying that she was some kind of outright rebel.

Adam could maybe have been partially to blame as well, since I don't think the serpent would have ever even been allowed to try and deceive Eve if Adam had not added to the commandment concerning the tree with her, the "weaker vessel", etc...

As for what was truly in Eve's heart at the time, I do not know if we can really fully and truly know, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[GodsGrace101]

I find it strange that Eve has always been blamed for the fall.

If you actually read the scripture, you can see that both Adam and Eve were responsible.
And more closely, you can see how we can all fall into the same trap.

Genesis 3
The Man and Woman Sin

3 The serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals the Lord God had made. One day he asked the woman, “Did God really say you must not eat the fruit from any of the trees in the garden?” (Here, the seed of doubt is planted by the enemy)

2 “Of course we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,” the woman replied. 3 “It’s only the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden that we are not allowed to eat. God said, ‘You must not eat it or even touch it; if you do, you will die.’”

4 “You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman. 5 “God knows that your eyes will be opened as soon as you eat it, and you will be like God, knowing both good and evil.” (Here, the enemy waters the seed of doubt by proclaiming to Eve that God has kept valuable knowledge from them, -lied- and they can have it if they disobey his command). This is the first instance of lack of faith (trust) in the creator.

6 The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too. (Here, there is the doubt, (perceived) broken trust, and the result is a desire for control and power) the human will is born.
7 At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. (In this verse I believe nakedness is not physical but spiritual, when they realise nothing is hidden from Gods sight, they try to hide by "covering themselves")

8 When the cool evening breezes were blowing, the man[a] and his wife heard the Lord God walking about in the garden. So they hid from the Lord God among the trees. 9 Then the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He replied, “I heard you walking in the garden, so I hid. I was afraid because I was naked.”

11 “Who told you that you were naked?” the Lord God asked. “Have you eaten from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat?”

12 The man replied, “It was the woman you gave me who gave me the fruit, and I ate it.” (Here, you have the first "blame-shifting" occur, Adam says to God, it's Gods fault he sinned, because HE gave him the woman, who caused him to sin).

13 Then the Lord God asked the woman, “What have you done?”

“The serpent deceived me,” she replied. “That’s why I ate it.” (Here is more blame-shifting, Eve says the serpent deceived her, so it was not her fault)

Neither Adam nor Eve admitted to disobedience of Gods command, and asked for forgiveness.
This broken trust is what set the wheels in motion for what happened after and God doesn't lie for he told them "you shall die". I believe this meant a spiritual death.

This is my current take on it, but you're free to disagree.

The NT blames Adam for the fall.
Adam is the federal head of humanity - not Eve.
The first man fell - the 2nd Adam (man) saved us.
God made the Edenic covenant with Adam- not with Eve.
Humanity fell when Adam ate of the fruit and disobeyed the covenant he made with God - which was conditional on his obedience.
Thus the curses after God banished them from the Garden.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Adam could maybe have been partially to blame as well, since I don't think the serpent would have ever even been allowed to try and deceive Eve if Adam had not added to the commandment concerning the tree with her, the "weaker vessel", etc...

As for what was truly in Eve's heart at the time, I do not know if we can really fully and truly know, etc...?

God Bless!

Yes, I think we can say that Adam definitely contributed his own portion to the Fall. And according to the interpolation about Adam's role in the Fall which Paul offers in his letter to the Roman church, Adam seems to have had the greater fault.

I mean, what was Adam doing anyway? Just standing around, passively gawking while his wife was being accosted by a talking Serpent?

 

[oikonomia]

When did Eve become evil?

Eve became a sinful person the moment she ate of the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowldge of good and evil.

Before that moment she chould think about the tree, talk about the tree, maybe make up a poem about it, etc.
It was the eating of it which crossed the line and caused her to be a transgressor.

 

[oikonomia]

When desire entered her heart (Genesis 3:6); the goal of temptation.

The objective of carnal desire is to doubt the correct path (unbelief), then to wander from the correct path (apostasy).

We find that her temptation had three stages: first, she found the fruit edible for consumption (v. 6a), second, she found it attractive in appearance (v. 6b), and finally, she found it desirable to possess (v. 6c).

I think as long as she did not EAT of it, she had not crossed the line that God had established.

 

[YahuahSaves]

The NT blames Adam for the fall.
Adam is the federal head of humanity - not Eve.
The first man fell - the 2nd Adam (man) saved us.
God made the Edenic covenant with Adam- not with Eve.
Humanity fell when Adam ate of the fruit and disobeyed the covenant he made with God - which was conditional on his obedience.
Thus the curses after God banished them from the Garden.

Yes but religion over the centuries have blamed Eve. That was my point. The OP seems to take this view when he asks "when did eve become evil?" and asks if she's in the same league as Lucifer.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I mean, what was Adam doing anyway? Just standing around, passively gawking while his wife was being accosted by a talking Serpent?

Haha! Yes, it does make us wonder, doesn't it?

 

[Neogaia777]

Eve became a sinful person the moment she ate of the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowldge of good and evil.

Before that moment she chould think about the tree, talk about the tree, maybe make up a poem about it, etc.
It was the eating of it which crossed the line and caused her to be a transgressor.

Well, it says that Eve did not even find the tree or it's fruit even desirable until the serpent tempted her, etc...?

Don't know about Adam, but even if he did before that, he wasn't about to disobey God about it until after what had already happened with Eve, etc...

God Bless!