The significance of the terms "the Law and the Prophets".

[daydreamer40]

Galatians refers solely to Jewish religious law.

I have already shown you that Gal3:10&11 has to refer to the entire law, predominantly concerning the moral law, for non moral law could be perfectly obeyed. Therefore, if those verses only referred to non moral law, Paul made a false statement

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I have already shown you that Gal3:10&11 has to refer to the entire law, predominantly concerning the moral law, for non moral law could be perfectly obeyed. Therefore, if those verses only referred to non moral law, Paul made a false statement

No you did not. You quoted them but your interpretation is not there. Gal 3:13 calls the law a curse and No one thinks the law of loving God and man a curse. Who really thinks “do not murder” a curse and living unable to do so a curse? It is only the religious law. But living under the jewish religious law was.

 

[daydreamer40]

No you did not. You quoted them but your interpretation is not there. Gal 3:13 calls the law a curse and No one thinks the law of loving God and man a curse. Who really thinks “do not murder” a curse and living unable to do so a curse? It is only the religious law. But living under the jewish religious law was.

You are cursed if you rely on obedience to it to be justified before God. For you cannot be justified by obeying the law, for you cannot perfectly obey it. You need to rightly divide the word

 

[Saint Steven]

Which law do you think he means? The religious law if Judisam. If a man perfectly loved God and man his whole life but never kept the jewish law, he’d be righteous before God. The jewish law was to provide a way to forgiveness from breaking the moral law.

This law. (scripture below)
The law that we were held in custody under (imprisoned by) before this faith came. The law that was our guardian (jail keeper) until Christ came. The law we are no longer under.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This law. (scripture below)
The law that we were held in custody under (imprisoned by) before this faith came. The law that was our guardian (jail keeper) until Christ came. The law we are no longer under.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

“Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness,” Jesus. He doesn’t see the law that way and neither did Moses or David who openly loved the law of God.

 

[Saint Steven]

“Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness,” Jesus. He doesn’t see the law that way and neither did Moses or David who openly loved the law of God.

Jesus said...

John 5:45
“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

 

[Saint Steven]

I hope you aren't breaking the Sabbath by doing the work of creating posts.

Genesis 2:3
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

 

[klutedavid]

Galatians refers solely to Jewish religious law.

Where does it say that in the text?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Where does it say that in the text?

Galatians 4:9-10 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forcesd ? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

What law is he talking about that they turned back to? The Jewish law that includes special days and months and seasons. He is not warning them about turning back to the moral law of doing good to others.

Galatians 4:24 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

THis is the covenant between God and Israel, not the moral law written in the hearts of every human being.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Circumcision was a requirement of the Jewish law, not the moral law written in the hearts of everyone.

5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

The offence of the cross was that the Jewish law was no longer applicable to the children of God. The moral law is always applicable. Paul was not persecuted because he preached against keeping the moral law but the Jewish law.

6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law;

What law? The Jewish law that required circumcision.

Of course he never says that he is not talking about the moral law because no one who loved Jesus would ever consider that the law of loving others as you love yourself is one Christ freed us from doing.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus said...

John 5:45
“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

Do you think this verse means Moses did not love the law of God?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This law. (scripture below)
The law that we were held in custody under (imprisoned by) before this faith came. The law that was our guardian (jail keeper) until Christ came. The law we are no longer under.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Yes, the Jewish law that required religious duties to be forgiven of sin. That law has been abolished when the mosiac covenent was ended and God essentially divorced Israel. The moral law of loving God and loving man will continue into Eternity. We will never be free from be required to love others as we love ourselves. Only in hell are the inhabitants freed from having to love anyone but the self.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You are cursed if you rely on obedience to it to be justified before God. For you cannot be justified by obeying the law, for you cannot perfectly obey it. You need to rightly divide the word

No one is cursed who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind and strenght and loves others as they love themsevles. Do you think those who do this are cursed? Really? Think about it.

And where does the idea that one has to do this perfectly or it is useless? No one who is married thinks one has to love the spouse perfectly or forget it.

You need stop wrongly subtracting the Word.

 

[daydreamer40]

No one is cursed who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind and strenght and loves others as they love themsevles. Do you think those who do this are cursed? Really? Think about it.

And where does the idea that one has to do this perfectly or it is useless? No one who is married thinks one has to love the spouse perfectly or forget it.

You need stop wrongly subtracting the Word.

Is there really any value in these discussions? No one ever accepts they might be wrong. They will argue anything rather than admit to that.
For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. Rom4:14&15
Why does law bring wrath? Simple. You cannot be justified by obeying it. Why not? Do we all utterly break every single law every single day? Law brings wrath for you cannot fully obey it, therefore you cannot be justified by obeying the laws

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’e]'>[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because ‘the righteous will live by faith Gal3:10&11

It is quite plainly written. If you want to be justified by obeying the law you must continue/allways do everything written in the law to be justified. Paul tells us it is obvious no one can be justified that way, for no one at all times obeys the law.

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James2:10

So is the above plainly written. Stumble at just one [point where the law is concerned and you are guilty of breaking ALL of it

Where am I wrongly subtracting what I am quoting?

It would be too much wouldn't it, as your church has studied galatians to believe anything other than the conclusion reached there.

I will repeat. Saul the Pharisee could perfectly obey the legalistic law, it was the moral law he could not obey. Therefore Gal3:10&11 cannot refer to the non moral law, for that Particular law saul could be justified by obeying
BTW
Do you believe there is a pass mark of obedience to the law that can justify you before God? If so what is that pass mark in percentage terms?

 

[daydreamer40]

Where does it say that in the text?

It doesn't because it cannot:

What law does the following refer to?

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a]'>[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-67

In the next five verses, Paul carries on giving a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law. The example he gave came from the moral law: Thou shalt not covet

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Is there really any value in these discussions? No one ever accepts they might be wrong. They will argue anything rather than admit to that.

You are wrong. There are few, I admit, who want the truth but they are there. And like the Bereans, they search the scriptures, not the teachings of their favourite popular speaker, to see if these things be so. But I admit they are few.

For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. Rom4:14&15
Why does law bring wrath? Simple. You cannot be justified by obeying it. Why not? Do we all utterly break every single law every single day? Law brings wrath for you cannot fully obey it, therefore you cannot be justified by obeying the laws

No one who has obeyed the living God asking them to do something that is not what they want to do would agree with you at all. In fact, David wrote that the law of the Lord restores the soul, enlightens the eye, is sweet and so on. He loved the law of God. And so do I.

But David spoke of the moral law, not the law of animal sacrifices and religious festivities. He spoke the same as Jesus who said it is actually more delightful to give than receive and definately more satisfying that being on the take.

We are not justified by the litany of animal sacrifices which does not change the heart. We are pleasing to God when we obey the moral code. Anyone who merely gives a child a drink quenching their thirst is noticed and rewarded by God. God does not pour his wrath out on those who keep the moral law. Read about Sodom and Gom. and see who gets God's wrath.

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’e]'>[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because ‘the righteous will live by faith Gal3:10&11

Faith is not merely believing the teachings of those "do nothing God did it all" preachers. The man who buried his talents in the dirt was not approved of the Master. He definately had faith, but not enough to obey the personal instructions to him.

You can use the above excuse not to do anything God wants of you thinking that you are cursed if you do not do all so instead you do none, but that is not going to win an approval of the master.

It is quite plainly written. If you want to be justified by obeying the law you must continue/allways do everything written in the law to be justified. Paul tells us it is obvious no one can be justified that way, for no one at all times obeys the law.

I don't keep the Jewish law so no worries on that one.

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James2:10

I do not keep the Jewish law at all so no worries on that one. I am under Christ and his new commandments, at least the one that is new.

Where am I wrongly subtracting what I am quoting?

Thou shalt love the Lord they God with all of thy heart and soul and mind and strength and love the other people as you love yourself. Is this a law that is binding on you or have you subtracted it from the requirements of God on your life?

It would be too much wouldn't it, as your church has studied galatians to believe anything other than the conclusion reached there.

The realization that Paul was talking about the Jewish law was my own. I think and not merely believe what men tell me.

I will repeat. Saul the Pharisee could perfectly obey the legalistic law, it was the moral law he could not obey. Therefore Gal3:10&11 cannot refer to the non moral law, for that Particular law saul could be justified by obeying

Paul and Peter both said the mosiac law was a burden or a tutor. The details of the law he was speaking of was circumcision or observing special days. That is NOT the moral law.

Do you believe there is a pass mark of obedience to the law that can justify you before God? If so what is that pass mark in percentage terms?

Well, this is a good question and shows you are thinking about these things and I am impressed by your thoughts. I will tell you how it is for me.

I want to hear "well done good and faithful servant" when I stand before Him. From experience I can say he is fairly easy to please but hard to satisfy. But that taste of pleasing hi because I obeyed the moral law as He directed me to has so whet my appetite for more than this is my desire. I know what it is to feel God's approval on my choices. It is unbelievable satisfying and goes down into the inner core of all desire.

So if there is a pass mark, it is God showing his approval on my life at the points in time where I acted, was always something I did, not something I believed or thought or felt, that was not easy but which I knew was what He wanted me to do.

But you do not understand Him if you think he requires 100% obedience 100% of the time. Jesus said giving a cup of cold water to a thirsty one receives a reward, or his approval in a small way. He did not say a man has to do with perfectly every day of his life.

Do you see the Father here? A father does not require a son or daughter to do 100% right all the time to shed approval. Each act receives individual praise regardless of yesterday's failures. There is only a standard of compliance for a continued infillment of the Holy Spirit. Approval for individual acts of obedience are rewarded for what they were. He does not withhold his approval for those who merit it. But it does not have to be constant.

 

[daydreamer40]

s
Thou shalt love the Lord they God with all of thy heart and soul and mind and strength and love the other people as you love yourself. Is this a law that is binding on you or have you subtracted it from the requirements of God on your life?

Please tell me, what is the foundation upon which the new covenant stands?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It doesn't because it cannot:

What law does the following refer to?

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a]'>[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-67

In the next five verses, Paul carries on giving a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law. The example he gave came from the moral law: Thou shalt not covet

So your conclusion is that Paul was freed from thou shalt not covet and let himself covet all he wants? If not, what is your conclusion?

 

[daydreamer40]

Thou shalt love the Lord they God with all of thy heart and soul and mind and strength and love the other people as you love yourself. Is this a law that is binding on you or have you subtracted it from the requirements of God on your life?
.

Let us assume, you know the foundation upon which the new covenant stands:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb 10:15-17

The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart. There can be no hiding from it, for it is in your most inward parts. So if you know that, why did you ask the question?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Please tell me, what is the foundation upon which the new covenant stands?

Jesus the Christ

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Let us assume, you know the foundation upon which the new covenant stands:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb 10:15-17

The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart. There can be no hiding from it, for it is in your most inward parts. So if you know that, why did you ask the question?

You did not answer my question. Are you freed from the law to love God with all your heart and soul and mind and strenght and love others as you love yourself? Or do you think God does not remember all the times you sin against God and man and ignore that law so you are completely free to continue ignoring it as much as pleases you? Sounds like this is your position. Please clarify.

You need to realize that people ask you questions not seeking information they already know quite well, but wondering if you know it. Think of school. The teacher does not ask questions of the students because they do not know the in information they are teaching.