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The significance of the terms "the Law and the Prophets".

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I often see comments on the forum from those who quote Matthew 5:17 as a confirmation that "the law" has not been abolished. Somehow they fail to see that the verse says, "the Law or the Prophets", not "the law".

    Matthew 5:17
    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;
    I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    My primary aim here is to show that these terms are in reference to the books, not to the law itself. The thrust in most cases is the prophetic aspect, not dealing with the law itself. (that God gave to the Israelites alone)

    What is the significance of the terms "the Law and the Prophets"?

    The terms "the Law and the Prophets", are in reference to the books of the Law and the books of the Prophets. The NIV translation helps us most of the time by capitalizing "Law" and "Prophets" to show us that they are book titles.

    Notice the use of capitalization and non-capitalization in this verse.

    Romans 3:21
    But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known,
    to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    There is a reference to "the law" (non-capitalized) and to "the Law and the Prophets" (capitalized). So we can gather that this is speaking about "the law" itself and also about the books of the Law and the books of the Prophets. Which helps greatly to understand what this verse is saying.

    But now apart from the law (that God gave to the Israelites alone) the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the books of the Law and the books of the Prophets testify.

    These examples are not isolated. A Bible search for the words "law prophets" brings up these other references. Notice how they confirm the idea that these are in reference to the books of the Law and the books of the Prophets (and the book of Psalms). In fact, the first example is Jesus' explanation of Matt.5:17.
    Luke 24:44
    He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

    John 1:45
    Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

    Acts 13:15
    After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”

    Acts 24:14
    However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,

    Acts 28:23
    They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.
    Matthew 7:12
    So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

    Matthew 11:13
    For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

    Matthew 22:40
    All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    Luke 16:16
    “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
     
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  2. Anna Therese

    Anna Therese New Member

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    "But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." -Matthew 9:17
     
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  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Thanks for your post, but you better check that reference. (try again)

    Matthew 9:17
    Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
     
  4. Anna Therese

    Anna Therese New Member

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    The verse is self-explanatory. No idea what your point is in the above quote. Feel free to elaborate.
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Sure, glad to help. (at the risk of insulting your intelligence)

    You quote this verse in your first post above, with no explanation.
    "But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." -Matthew 9:17

    The part on the end of the verse is called "the reference". Which says: "Matthew 9:17"

    But when I look up that reference (Matthew 9:17) the verse you quoted doesn't match the reference. This is the verse that matches that reference.

    Matthew 9:17
    Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
     
  6. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    might be worth you reading on a little further
     
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  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Is that supposed to be helpful? If so, to whom? What's to read?
     
  8. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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  9. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I hope it is of help to you
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    In reference to what exactly? Get to the point. What are you trying to say?
     
  11. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Read the scriptures that my point steven.
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    You are still being vague. No idea what you mean.

    Are you saying that since you don't agree with me on some unspecified point that I need to read the Bible until I see it your way? That seems like an unfair assessment. To what exactly do you object?

    If you think I am wrong, prove it.
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Steve let me help... if you read further it says..

    MATTHEW 5:17-19
    [17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    [18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    [19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    [20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    The very next verses you leave out make your OP fall down.

    Hope that helps
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  14. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Which commandment is the least? The Sabbath?

    Matthew 5:17-19
    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
     
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    This topic is to challenge that sort of thinking. I have presented my case. Your turn to present yours. If you can manage to stop beating about the bush.
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    If you break God's commandments and teach others to do so v19 you are called the least from those in the kingdom of heaven because you will not enter it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  18. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I gave you a simple bit of information to follow up and you can't comprehend that, read what you first posted and then read the scriptures you should be able to see your self your own error,
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I really don't appreciate your condescending attitude. You have failed to make a case.
     
  20. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok steven
    Ok steven
     
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