The Seal?

[PROPHECYKID]

[FONT=&quot]The law was added because of Transgressions. This law did not result in sin but resulted from the act of sin. The 10 commandments resulted in sin.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Due to the presence of this law sin is in effect.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This law was present from the beginning because Adam could not have sinned without a law present. Cain could not have sinned if there was no law present. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Law spoken of in Galatians on the other hand came as a result of sin.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The entire ceremonial system comes as a result of sin. All of the sacrifices are as a result of sin. The blood of the bulls and the goats must be shed for without that shedding of blood there was no remission of sin. If there was no sin there would be no need for sacrifices and ordinances which are ceremonial. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This law was therefore seen as a means of making on right again in God’s sight. When the sacrifices were offered they were offered to get forgiveness for their sins. After these sacrifices and ordinances were done it was then believed that their sins were forgiven and they were justified in the eyes of God. Hence this law was seen to make one clean and righteous after he had sinned. If the end of the day of atonement saw anyone not being righteous (without sin) they would die. On that day sacrifices were offered to make everyone’s sins be forgiven. This was therefore a law of righteousness.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Christ was not the end of the 10 commandments but the law that man did to be counted as righteous and also other man made laws for righteousness. [/FONT]

 

[PROPHECYKID]

[FONT=&quot]This law was a schoolmaster or guardian as other versions say, to bring us to Christ. This Law was like a shadow of the real thing. A shadow of Christ. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This handwriting of Ordinances is a law and is the same law referred to in Galatians. They are both made of null effect due to the Death of Christ. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 9:11 But Christ being come a high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]These text shows that the law spoken of which was a shadow of Christ, an image of Christ, a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ was sacrificial in nature. We have to look at this law from a sacrificial standpoint. The sacrifices offered by this law, (Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law have no more pleasure to God in the new covenant because they were only shadows pointing to Christ. The Sabbath days were ceremonial Sabbaths, the meats and drinks were meat offerings and drink offerings. Everything that was a shadow was contained in the handwriting of ordinances which is the ceremonial law and not the 10 commandments. Since faith is come we no longer keep these sacrifices and holy days and other ceremonial stuff associated with sacrifices. Our faith in Jesus means that we believe that he is our ultimate sacrifice and his blood covers our sins. The law in Galatians is the ceremonial law.[/FONT]

 

[Eila]

Interesting correlation:

Law of sin and death / Law of the Spirit

Romans 8 "2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."



2 Cor 3 "5Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
8how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
9For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
10For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it.
11For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory."



The Bible comes right out and specifically says what was the ministry of death. It was not an isolated ceremonial aspect of the old covenant law. It says "letters engraved on stones". What else was engraved on stones?



Both texts contrast the law of sin/death with the ministry/law of the Spirit and both say what we should be under.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

2 Cor 3 "5Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
8how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
9For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
10For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it.
11For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory."

The Bible comes right out and specifically says what was the ministry of death. It was not an isolated ceremonial aspect of the old covenant law. It says "letters engraved on stones". What else was engraved on stones?

Why was it referred to that way? Romans 7 has the answer.

Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

It is not the law that is death but the sin that the law gives a knowledge of. Without the law Paul is innocent but as soon as he knows the law he is conscious of his sins and realizes that he has to pay the wages of sin which is death.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

2 laws are being spoken of here. The law of God in his mind and the law of sin in his flesh or in his members. If Paul walks in the flesh he will serve the law of sin. So if he walks in the Spirit he will obviously serve the law in his mind.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The carnal mind is not subject to the Law of God because the law is spiritual. (Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.). The only way to keep the Law of God is to be spiritually minded and the only way to be spiritually minded is by walking after the spirit and not after the flesh.

 

[Eila]

Why was it referred to that way? Romans 7 has the answer.

Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

It is not the law that is death but the sin that the law gives a knowledge of. Without the law Paul is innocent but as soon as he knows the law he is conscious of his sins and realizes that he has to pay the wages of sin which is death.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

2 laws are being spoken of here. The law of God in his mind and the law of sin in his flesh or in his members. If Paul walks in the flesh he will serve the law of sin. So if he walks in the Spirit he will obviously serve the law in his mind.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The carnal mind is not subject to the Law of God because the law is spiritual. (Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.). The only way to keep the Law of God is to be spiritually minded and the only way to be spiritually minded is by walking after the spirit and not after the flesh.

When you walk in the Spirit you do not walk after the flesh. The law condemns. When you walk after keeping a law you are walking after the flesh. Romans 7 says " 5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."

We have been released from the law so that we can serve in the newness (notice that word there - not something that has always been around that the Jewish people someone missed) of the Spirit.


What was written on stone is called the ministry of death and 2 Corinthians 3 contrasts it with the ministry of the Spirit. So why would anyone follow after the ministry of death which 2 Corinthians 3 describes as "10For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory."

 

[OntheDL]

(Gal 5:1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
(Gal 5:2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
(Gal 5:3) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
(Gal 5:4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
(Gal 5:5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
(Gal 5:6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


I am free from the law...all of it... thats why believers follow and walk after the Spirit. How about you? Or would you rather walk after and perform law?


AT

Paul never spoke against the law, but rather against salvation by works of keeping the law. Big difference.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The spirit of God will never lead you to break the law. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. Love is the motive of obedience.

Use the marital relationship as an example, if you do what your spouse tells you to do, because of love.


It would make no sense if you say you love her but won't do anything she tells you. You are only deceiving yourself.

 

[OntheDL]

When you walk in the Spirit you do not walk after the flesh. The law condemns. When you walk after keeping a law you are walking after the flesh. Romans 7 says " 5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."

We have been released from the law so that we can serve in the newness (notice that word there - not something that has always been around that the Jewish people someone missed) of the Spirit.


What was written on stone is called the ministry of death and 2 Corinthians 3 contrasts it with the ministry of the Spirit. So why would anyone follow after the ministry of death which 2 Corinthians 3 describes as "10For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory."

What newness of life is it that you knowingly break God's law constantly?

 

[Eila]

What newness of life is it that you knowingly break God's law constantly?

What gives you the idea that I am knowingly breaking God's law constantly?

 

[OntheDL]

What gives you the idea that I am knowingly breaking God's law constantly?

You said you are a former adventist but now no longer keep the sabbath commandment, right?

So how can you boast about having a newness of life when you transgress one of God's eternal laws?

 

[Eila]

You said you are a former adventist but now no longer keep the sabbath commandment, right?

So how can you boast about having a newness of life when you transgress one of God's eternal laws?

Newness of life is a gift from God. It is found in Christ and is not based on my good works - but that is another issue No boasting here. Newness is all from Jesus!! It's not me. It's Him!!

Yes, I am a former Adventist and no longer keep the seventh-day as Adventists do. However, I have no problem saying I keep the Sabbath. I keep the Sabbath just as you keep the Passover or any other feast. I keep it in it's fulfillment not in the shadows. I keep the Sabbath in resting from my works everyday. I know that is not acceptable to many Adventists even though their interpretations of Sabbath activities are subjective. I know that Adventists see the 10 commandments as eternal laws, but that cannot be shown from Scripture. I understand why you try to condemn me, but your words do not condemn me because I take the Word of God for the what the words come right out and say.

Colossians 2 says "16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

 

[OntheDL]

Newness of life is a gift from God. It is found in Christ and is not based on my good works - but that is another issue No boasting here. Newness is all from Jesus!! It's not me. It's Him!!

Yes, I am a former Adventist and no longer keep the seventh-day as Adventists do. However, I have no problem saying I keep the Sabbath. I keep the Sabbath just as you keep the Passover or any other feast. I keep it in it's fulfillment not in the shadows. I keep the Sabbath in resting from my works everyday. I know that is not acceptable to many Adventists even though their interpretations of Sabbath activities are subjective. I know that Adventists see the 10 commandments as eternal laws, but that cannot be shown from Scripture. I understand why you try to condemn me, but your words do not condemn me because I take the Word of God for the what the words come right out and say.

Colossians 2 says "16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Colossian 2:16 speaks not of the sabbath itself, but of the sacrifices connected to the sabbath, new moon or the annual feasts. The 7th day sabbath is not a shadow that points to christ but a memorial of the creation. The scriptures gave no indications that it is a shadow.

However the bible does speak of the eternity of God's law and every protestant and catholic denominations doctrines confirm it regardless what you like to believe.

The newness of life Paul presented is nothing like what you said. The biblical newness of life or being born-again results in a life of obedience. Try harder please. If one of the 10 commandments which was written in stones by the very finger of God was changed, don't you think there'd be multiple explicit declarations from God Himself?

I'm not trying to condemn you. That was how the apostate Israel rejected all messengers of God. I'm not saying I'm a messenger of God as I'm working on my own salvation (don't accuse me of salvation by works). I'm however a professed follower who believes God calls us to sound the trumpets, not to give feel good sermons. That's all. So do what you choose. I'm sure you are familiar with the context of our teaching.

 

[Eila]

Colossian 2:16 speaks not of the sabbath itself, but of the sacrifices connected to the sabbath, new moon or the annual feasts. The 7th day sabbath is not a shadow that points to christ but a memorial of the creation. The scriptures gave no indications that it is a shadow.

I understand the Adventist interpretation of that text, but disagree with it. I see the Sabbath pointing to Christ just as much as the Passover. The emphasis on not working, not carrying burdens on the Sabbath, etc are so full of symbolism of our rest found in Christ. I understand that you disagree though.

However the bible does speak of the eternity of God's law and every protestant and catholic denominations doctrines confirm regardless what you like to believe.

Every sounds like a very strong statement. Considering the growing non-denominational Christian population I'm not sure the importance of that anyway.

I'm not trying to condemn you. That was how the apostate Israel rejected all messengers of God. I'm not saying I'm a messenger of God as I'm working on my own salvation (don't accuse me of salvation by works). I'm however a professed follower who believes God calls us to sound the trumpets. That's all. So do what you choose. I know you are familiar with the context of our teaching.

Yes I understand the Adventist perspective. Let each one be convinced in his/her own mind.

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

I am willing to discuss it to prove my point. However this will deter the original topic. So the OP should have a say in which direction the thread goes.

By all means. The thread topic's kind of taken on a life of its own. Lol. I figured it'd be a quick answer to a simple question. Go figure.

Anyway, enjoy guys. I'm reading along, but not really able to reply at the moment. Busy and such.

 

[Eila]

The newness of life Paul presented is nothing like what you said. The biblical newness of life or being born-again results in a life of obedience. Try harder please. If one of the 10 commandments which was written in stones by the very finger of God was changed, don't you think there'd be multiple explicit declarations from God Himself?

I missed this part earlier. I guess you added it

The fruit is not law-keeping. We were created in Christ for good works. There is not one instance in the new covenant where Sabbath keeping is described as a fruit of a changed life. Yet there are many texts telling us that we are not under the law.

2 Corinthians 3 is pretty explicit that the 10 commandments have passed away. Galatians 4 is pretty explicit that we should cast out the bondswoman covenant from Sinai. It is not that the old covenant has changed, but the new covenant supercedes the old.

 

[reddogs]

I missed this part earlier. I guess you added it

The fruit is not law-keeping. We were created in Christ for good works. There is not one instance in the new covenant where Sabbath keeping is described as a fruit of a changed life. Yet there are many texts telling us that we are not under the law.

2 Corinthians 3 is pretty explicit that the 10 commandments have passed away. Galatians 4 is pretty explicit that we should cast out the bondswoman covenant from Sinai. It is not that the old covenant has changed, but the new covenant supercedes the old.

Those are mens views, but not what God gave, His law of love is eternal and the Spirit shows us a level of fruit above what is written simply for us grasp the basics.....

12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.1 Corinthians 2:12-13

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Let me just explain what it means to be under the law.
You can either be under the law or under grace. You are only saved it you are under grace. Does that mean that if you keep the law you will be lost? Being under the law does not mean keeping the law but it means being dominioned by sin.

Sin is lawlessness not lawfulness. When you transgress the law you sin and then you are supposed to pay the penalty of sin. In that state you are under the law because you are supposed to pay the price of breaking the law. However because of that offense grace abounds. You were under the condemnation or penalty of the law but grace frees you from that. When grace covers you you do not have to pay the price of your sin. You are no longer under the condemnation of the law but under grace.
When God now gives you that grace so you are free from paying the price of your sin does that mean that you are now free to sin? God forbid.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

We are saved by Grace through faith and not by keeping the law. But we all should know that faith without works is dead. The saints in Revelation who do not take the mark of the beast have faith but can we see their works as a result of their faith?

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Keeping the commandments are as a result of two things, faith and love.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love is the fulfilling of the Law. When one accepts Christ and has the holy spirit he will have the fruits of the spirit. Two of those are faith and love. Both faith and love are demonstrated by works.
If you say to your wife or girlfriend or boyfriend that you love them and don't do anything they tell you to do even if it's for your own good will that person feel that you love them?

Because we are saved we keep the law cause salvation comes through faith and brings forth love which are both demonstrated by works.
The bible never said that love might fulfill the law depending on the person. Love fulfills the law end of story, that is what the bible says.

Paul even makes it clear that we need grace because of sin which is present because of the law.

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Adam and Eve could not sin unless God told them not to eat of that tree. Since God gave that law then there was sin.
Because of the law there is sin and because of sin there is grace and because there is grace we can be saved from the penalty for sin.
If there is no law sin cannot be in effect and we would not have to pay the penalty of sin so we would not need grace.

Finally lets say that Paul and John is having a conversation.

Paul says this to John.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

John says, " Oh, I am not under the law but under grace but that does not mean that i should sin. The lord inspired me and told me that sin is the transgression of the law. So then what you are saying is that because i am under grace it does not mean i should break the law.

Paul says, "Exactly, If the law came so that the offense or sin may abound and grace abounds because of sin then grace should cover our sins so we should be under grace.

Hope this helps

 

[Jimlarmore]

2 Corinthians 3 is pretty explicit that the 10 commandments have passed away. Galatians 4 is pretty explicit that we should cast out the bondswoman covenant from Sinai. It is not that the old covenant has changed, but the new covenant supercedes the old.

This is just not true. I have wrestled with 2 Cor 3 thumpers for some time in the past. This is a popular set of texts used on Carm to try to proove this false idea that Paul is saying the law is done away with. Just like in the Collosians texts there are those who will misinterpret scripture to make it say what they want it too.

Eila says there is nothing in the Bible where it specifically says we are to use the Sabbath as a part of the new life in Christ yet when I read my Bible I don't find anything there that specifically says not to either. The Sabbath was a major paradigm for Paul being a Jew all of his life and would not have even been questioned unless God specifically told him to tell us to ignore it. If the Sabbath was to be ignored he would have spent volumes and volumes on it considering what he said about circumcision in his epistles.

If you really look at 2 Cor 3 what you will find Paul is actually telling us that the ministry of death is passing away. What is that really telling us? One of the biggest things Paul fought against in his ministry was legalism. Many of the Jews around him still thought they could secure salvation by keeping the law. The law can only point us to the cross and condemn us. In other words it's a ministry of death. Paul was telling these folks to quit trying to save themselves and to look to a greater glory and that is the glory of salvation by faith in Christ and thru grace. It is impossible to save oneself in this life. We can only achieve salvation thru Christ and that is what he is telling us here.

Paul makes it perfectly clear in some of his other writtings that the law is holy, perfect and good and that new covenant Christians "Establish" the law. It makes no sense that he would tell us that the law was done away with in one epistle and that we establish it in another. I think we are misinterpreting his writings as Peter said some would do to their own destruction.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[freeindeed2]

However the bible does speak of the eternity of God's law and every protestant and catholic denominations doctrines confirm it regardless what you like to believe.

This is assumption built on assumption.

How could it be 'eternal' if it was 'given' to Israel (only) 430 years AFTER Abraham.

How could the Sabbath be 'eternal' if it was 'made' for man?

Since days weren't made yet, neither sun, moon, and stars, the rotation of the earth around the sun, and the earth wasn't either (since nothing had been created, including man whom it was made for) on what basis did the heavenly hosts 'remember to keep the Sabbath holy'? Scripture please!

Were the angels commanded not to commit adultery?

Were the angels commanded to honor their mother's and father's?

Were the angels commanded not to covet their neighbor's wife?

It would be better if you would just stick with Scripture itself.

In Christ alone...

(Nice reports, BTW!)

 

[Jimlarmore]

This is assumption built on assumption.

How could it be 'eternal' if it was 'given' to Israel (only) 430 years AFTER Abraham.

The Sabbath was given at creation. The question implies inaccuracies in historic truth.

How could the Sabbath be 'eternal' if it was 'made' for man?

The Sabbath was made for man at creation where it was set aside for holy use. At that time man was to live forever or "eternity". So this question is mute in nature and is inapplicable.

Since days weren't made yet, neither sun, moon, and stars, the rotation of the earth around the sun, and the earth wasn't either (since nothing had been created, including man whom it was made for) on what basis did the heavenly hosts 'remember to keep the Sabbath holy'? Scripture please!

???????????? The Sabbath was made for us after the earth was made. If you are asking about the Sabbath being something that God required in heaven we have no scripture to support that. According to all we know the Sabbath was made for man before sin entered and it will be kept in the earth made new after sin is taken care of.

Were the angels commanded not to commit adultery?

Were the angels commanded to honor their mother's and father's?

Were the angels commanded not to covet their neighbor's wife?

It would be better if you would just stick with Scripture itself.

In Christ alone...

(Nice reports, BTW!)

What you are implying here is that we have no record of any law in heaven. This is true, however I think you would be in error to assume there was no law or government in heaven for angels before the earth was created. Sin originated in the heart of Lucifer a covering cherub. Since we know sin is the transgression of God's law we know that a law had to exist even in heaven. It's just pure logic.

God Bless
Jim Larmore