The Seal?

[Jimlarmore]

You're making claims about one verse (and even then you ignore the New Moons, which I doubt you're observing), but you still have yet to deal with why ch. 65 & 66 also speak of the wicked still living (only to 100), death still being present, the horror the saints experience every time they view the dead bodies strewn about being eaten by worms, the fact that they still have to work the ground, they build their own houses (instead of living in the mansions God has prepared), and on and on. So, YES! You and others have plucked part of one verse out because in that partial phrase it can be used to promote the law, specifically the 4th C. But you do so while ignoring everything else around it.

In Christ alone...

I've delt with all of the context you just don't agree with it.
Please show how any of the context invalidates or makes null and void the statement's that say God will make a new heaven and a new earth. Please show in addition to that how any part of the context invalidates or makes null and void the statement that we will worship before the Father on Sabbath in the new earth.

Your are attempting to impune the truth in the Bible. Something dangerous to do my friend.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[ThomasDa]

Before we start we need to know these things. 2Tim 3:16 says "All scripture is given by inspiration" Jo. 10:35 says "Scripture can not be broken" and Jesus said in Mat. 4:4 "Man must live by EVERY word of God"

The main point is, are God’s “Ten Commandments” done away? The answer is an emphatic NO. They are still in effect and applicable today. They are one of God’s greatest gifts to mankind. They teach us how to live a happy, abundant and fulfilling life; a way of life we could never find on our own.

God gave His only begotten Son so that we could be forgiven for breaking them, not so we can keep on breaking them. To put it in the words of Paul, “God forbid!” (Ro. 6:15)

The following NT passages confirm explicitly or by example, that Jesus and His apostles viewed “The Ten Commandments” as a vital part of Christian living.

The first Commandment: Mat. 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
Mat. 22:37-38 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and great commandment.

The second Commandment: 1Jo. 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen
1Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived.Neither fornicators,nor idolaters,....
1Cor. 10:7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” verse 14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. Eph. 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

The third Commandment: Mat. 5:33-34 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat. 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
1Tim. 6:1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

The fourth Commandment: Lk. 4:14-16 Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and news of Him went out through all the surrounding region. 15 And He taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all.

16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.
Act. 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act. 13:42-44 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Act. 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Act. 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

The fifth Commandment: Mat. 15:3-6 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’
Mat. 19:17-19 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Eph. 6:2-3 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”

The sixth Commandment: Mat. 5:21-22 You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat. 19:17-18 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness, ’Note also, Ro. 1.3:9, Gal. 5:19-21 and Ja. 2:10-12

The seventh Commandment: Mat. 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat. 19:18 Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ Also Ro.13:9, 1Cor. 6:9, 1Cor. 10:8,
Eph. 5:5, Gal. 5:19-21 and Ja. 3:10-12

The eighth Commandment: Mat. 19:17-18 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” Note also Rom. 13:9 and Eph. 4:28

The ninth Commandment: Mat. 19:18Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” Note also
Ro. 13:9. Col. 3:9 and Eph. 4:25

The tenth Commandment: Ro. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Ro. 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Eph. 5:3,5 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

 

[Sophia7]

Wrong again, the word Sabbaton is used ( which is synomymous to Sabbath ) in the original language ( hebrew ) when describing God taking a break from creation. That old arguement does not hold water.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Sabbaton is a Greek word, not a Hebrew word.

 

[reddogs]

Before we start we need to know these things. 2Tim 3:16 says "All scripture is given by inspiration" Jo. 10:35 says "Scripture can not be broken" and Jesus said in Mat. 4:4 "Man must live by EVERY word of God"

The main point is, are God’s “Ten Commandments” done away? The answer is an emphatic NO. They are still in effect and applicable today. They are one of God’s greatest gifts to mankind. They teach us how to live a happy, abundant and fulfilling life; a way of life we could never find on our own.

God gave His only begotten Son so that we could be forgiven for breaking them, not so we can keep on breaking them. To put it in the words of Paul, “God forbid!” (Ro. 6:15)

The following NT passages confirm explicitly or by example, that Jesus and His apostles viewed “The Ten Commandments” as a vital part of Christian living.

The first Commandment: Mat. 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
Mat. 22:37-38 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and great commandment.

The second Commandment: 1Jo. 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen
1Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived.Neither fornicators,nor idolaters,....
1Cor. 10:7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” verse 14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. Eph. 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

The third Commandment: Mat. 5:33-34 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat. 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
1Tim. 6:1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

The fourth Commandment: Lk. 4:14-16 Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and news of Him went out through all the surrounding region. 15 And He taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all.

16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.
Act. 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act. 13:42-44 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Act. 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Act. 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

The fifth Commandment: Mat. 15:3-6 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’
Mat. 19:17-19 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Eph. 6:2-3 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”

The sixth Commandment: Mat. 5:21-22 You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat. 19:17-18 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness, ’Note also, Ro. 1.3:9, Gal. 5:19-21 and Ja. 2:10-12

The seventh Commandment: Mat. 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat. 19:18 Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ Also Ro.13:9, 1Cor. 6:9, 1Cor. 10:8,
Eph. 5:5, Gal. 5:19-21 and Ja. 3:10-12

The eighth Commandment: Mat. 19:17-18 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” Note also Rom. 13:9 and Eph. 4:28

The ninth Commandment: Mat. 19:18Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” Note also
Ro. 13:9. Col. 3:9 and Eph. 4:25

The tenth Commandment: Ro. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Ro. 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Eph. 5:3,5 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Those are mighty words my brother....

 

[Sophia7]

I've delt with all of the context you just don't agree with it.
Please show how any of the context invalidates or makes null and void the statement's that say God will make a new heaven and a new earth. Please show in addition to that how any part of the context invalidates or makes null and void the statement that we will worship before the Father on Sabbath in the new earth.

Your are attempting to impune the truth in the Bible. Something dangerous to do my friend.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Of course God will make a new heaven and a new earth:

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
________________________________________________

REV 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

REV 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
​

However, the context of these NT verses is different from the context of Isaiah 65-66. Here are a couple of examples:

ISA 65:20 "Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
he who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere youth;
he who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.
________________________________________________

ISA 66:22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 " And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
​

Please note especially that in Revelation there is no more death, whereas in Isaiah there is still death. The Adventist interpretation simply can't be reconciled with the contextual issues in these chapters. Besides that, as Free said, you're ignoring the New Moons. If Isaiah 66:23 were really proof that the Sabbath commandment is eternally binding, then the New Moon would be as well.

 

[Eila]

Originally Posted by WailingWall
Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Now you have

Posted by Eila
Now I have a text that talks about the "spirit of the law"? Where is there "spirit of the law" in that text? How does "the law is spiritual" equal the "spirit of the law"? According to the Greek how does spiritual equal essence?


Posted by WW
Your kiddin, right? If you cant see that the law is spiritual i do understand. Prophecy fulfilled.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Do you also believe Jesus did not magnify the law but put an end to the law. Again, if so, i understand. Prophecy fulfilled.

Kidding how? How were those not valid questions? I don't question "the law is spiritual" with spiritual defined as:

spiritual
New Testament Greek Definition:
4152 pneumatikos {pnyoo-mat-ik-os'}
from 4151; TDNT - 6:332,876; adj
AV - spiritual 26; 26
1) relating to the human spirit, or rational soul, as part of the man
which is akin to God and serves as his instrument or organ
1a) that which possesses the nature of the rational soul
2) belonging to a spirit, or a being higher than man but inferior to God
3) belonging to the Divine Spirit
3a) of God the Holy Spirit
3b) one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God
4) pertaining to the wind or breath; windy, exposed to the wind, blowing

In order to arrive at the "spirit of the law" I must use inference, correct? And with that inference my definition of spirit must be essence, correct? How does the definition of spirit as essence line up with the Greek uses of that word?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

No problem

In answer to your previous question what is the law of sin and death...

The law of sin and death is the old covenant law that was given to the Israelites so that sin would abound.

So sin did not abound before the written law was given?

 

[Eila]

So sin did not abound before the written law was given?

Sin did abound before the law was given. However, the law was given so sin would increase even more.

Romans 5 "20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Eila,

May I ask what translation of the Bible you are quoting from in your post?

Romans 5:20, 21; "The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[Eila]

Hi Eila,

May I ask what translation of the Bible you are quoting from in your post?

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

NASB

 

[freeindeed2]

Of course God will make a new heaven and a new earth:

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.​

________________________________________________​

REV 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."​

REV 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."​

However, the context of these NT verses is different from the context of Isaiah 65-66. Here are a couple of examples:

ISA 65:20 "Never again will there be in it​

an infant who lives but a few days,​

or an old man who does not live out his years;​

he who dies at a hundred​

will be thought a mere youth;​

he who fails to reach a hundred​

will be considered accursed.​

________________________________________________​

ISA 66:22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 " And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."​

Please note especially that in Revelation there is no more death, whereas in Isaiah there is still death. The Adventist interpretation simply can't be reconciled with the contextual issues in these chapters. Besides that, as Free said, you're ignoring the New Moons. If Isaiah 66:23 were really proof that the Sabbath commandment is eternally binding, then the New Moon would be as well.

Thanks Sophia for addressing this (I was out all day working and just got back!). It is exactly the point I was trying to make and what Jim and anybody else must ignore in order to twist a partial verse to apply to a time that the text OBVIOUSLY speak of.

In Christ alone...

 

[reddogs]

Thanks Sophia for addressing this (I was out all day working and just got back!). It is exactly the point I was trying to make and what Jim and anybody else must ignore in order to twist a partial verse to apply to a time that the text OBVIOUSLY speak of.

In Christ alone...

Any way you look at it, when things get burnt, it will not leave much..