The Seal?

[Jimlarmore]

Jim...does Galatians 3:24 and 25 include the 4th commandment? Yes or no!

(Gal 3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


AT

We never were under the law for salvation. When Paul wrote this he was fighting the legalistic beliefs of the Jews that you could somehow earn salvation thru keeping the law. Later Paul wrote that the law was holy just and good. He also said do we sin so that grace may abound more? He said specifically God forbid. What would Paul count as sin but violation of God's law?

No amount of Sabbath observance will save us but breaking it intentionally shows we have not been born again and have not allowed Christ to change our lives.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Adventtruth]

We never were under the law for salvation. When Paul wrote this he was fighting the legalistic beliefs of the Jews that you could somehow earn salvation thru keeping the law. Later Paul wrote that the law was holy just and good. He also said do we sin so that grace may abound more? He said specifically God forbid. What would Paul count as sin but violation of God's law?

No amount of Sabbath observance will save us but breaking it intentionally shows we have not been born again and have not allowed Christ to change our lives.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

It appears that you are the one confused here Jim. Thats not what I asked you, nor is that what the passage says. It says


(Gal 3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So does that include the Sabbath Law as well...yes or no.


AT

 

[PROPHECYKID]

It appears that you are the one confused here Jim. Thats not what I asked you, nor is that what the passage says. It says


(Gal 3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So does that include the Sabbath Law as well...yes or no.


AT

If i can answer i would say no. The reason for this law not being our schoolmaster is faith in Jesus Christ. When one believes in Jesus Christ there is a law that he will no longer follow. A law that was just a shadow of Christ. The ceremonial law was the schoolmaster but since Jesus died and we have faith in his sacrifice all the ceremonial sacrifices are vain.

 

[OntheDL]

It appears that you are the one confused here Jim. Thats not what I asked you, nor is that what the passage says. It says


(Gal 3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So does that include the Sabbath Law as well...yes or no.


AT

Yes. So?

It also includes 1st-3rd and 5th-10th commandments. So you are free to worship other gods, set up idols, kill or steal...?

The issue of Galatians Paul presented was not against the law itself, but righteousness by works (of keeping the law) vs righteousness by faith.

 

[Adventtruth]

Yes. So?

It also include 1st-3rd and 5th-10th commandments. So you are free to worship other gods, set up idols, kill or steal...?

So you disagree with Jim and PROPHECYKID here? Correct?


AT

 

[OntheDL]

So you disagree with Jim here? Correct?

AT

I have not read what Jim wrote. I just stated my belief. Address my reply if you will. If I feel I need to write to Jim I will do so myself.

 

[Adventtruth]

I have not read what Jim wrote. I just stated my belief. Address my reply if you will. If I feel I need to write to Jim I will do so myself.

Ok cool...Then can you kindly read what they both wrote and tell me if you agree or not?


AT

 

[OntheDL]

Ok cool...Then can you kindly read what they both wrote and tell me if you agree or not?

AT

Well like I said, if I feel I need to address them I will.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I am willing to discuss it to prove my point. However this will deter the original topic. So the OP should have a say in which direction the thread goes.

 

[Adventtruth]

Yes. So?

It also includes 1st-3rd and 5th-10th commandments. So you are free to worship other gods, set up idols, kill or steal...?

The issue of Galatians Paul presented was not against the law itself, but righteousness by works (of keeping the law) vs righteousness by faith.

(Gal 5:1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
(Gal 5:2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
(Gal 5:3) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
(Gal 5:4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
(Gal 5:5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
(Gal 5:6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


I am free from the law...all of it... thats why believers follow and walk after the Spirit. How about you? Or would you rather walk after and perform law?


AT

 

[Adventtruth]

I am willing to discuss it to prove my point. However this will deter the original topic. So the OP should have a say in which direction the thread goes.

Be my guest! PK

AT

 

[PROPHECYKID]

(Gal 5:1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
(Gal 5:2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
(Gal 5:3) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
(Gal 5:4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
(Gal 5:5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
(Gal 5:6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


I am free from the law...all of it... thats why believers follow and walk after the Spirit. How about you? Or would you rather walk after and perform law?


AT

You are free from the Law of Sin and Death. Do you know what is the Law of Sin and Death?

 

[Adventtruth]

You are free from the Law of Sin and Death. Do you know what is the Law of Sin and Death?

Can you kindly enlighten me?

AT

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Can you kindly enlighten me?

AT

Sure. I started a thread about this some weeks ago.

Many people say that the law of sin and death is God's law. However the bible states that it is not so.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Two laws are spoken of here. The law of God and the law of sin. Paul prior in the chapter was speaking of his inward sinfulness which really is the lust of the flesh. The lust of the flesh is what causes us to sin when in our minds we know that we shouldn't. Paul says that the law of sin and death are in his members. The law of God however is in his mind and is at war with the law of his members. The law of his members can then be looked at as the lusts of the flesh. Yielding to that lust causes sin whose consequences is death. Only when one can live in the spirit can he overcome the lust of the flesh.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Only when one is spiritually minded can heed the Law of God which is in his mind.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The carnal man follows the lust of the flesh but the man lead by the spirit follows the will of God.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I used the scriptures that i quoted to come up with that understanding. I may have to do some biblical searches to find other texts to back it up. The law of sin and death s not an actual law to me as in a written law. Its kinda like there are natural laws like the law of gravity. The law of sin and death is the law in our members and is at war with the law of God. Our carnal mind is driven by our sinful lust.

Stealing and coveting are all apart of the lust of the flesh. Stealing and coveting are against the law of God. The mind which has a knowledge of God's law says no but our members driven by the law of sin says yes.
God's Law - thou shall not steal
Law of sin - steal it quick before anyone sees.

It is the lust of the flesh, our carnal tendencies that causes us to follow the law of sin. It can be looked at that way. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God because it is subject to the law of sin.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I fell very strongly about this. I may not present a powerful case but it just makes so much sense to me. I hope it is making sense to you as well.

 

[Jimlarmore]

It appears that you are the one confused here Jim. Thats not what I asked you, nor is that what the passage says. It says


(Gal 3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(Gal 3:25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So does that include the Sabbath Law as well...yes or no.


AT

Of course it includes the Sabbath commandment. If we live a life totally focused on God/Christ as we are directed to in Jeremiah we will no longer need the mirror ( the law ) to point out sin in our life and direct us to the cross and Christ. This is where sanctification starts to become a reality.

Justification is the first step of salvation but after we are justified we need to produce fruit and work the works of being saved. That very much shows the world a changed life and includes keeping God's holy day and His other commandments as well. We don't just magically fall into a catagory that somehow makes breaking God's law an ok thing to do after being saved.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I am searching for one of my post about the whole Galatians thing so I'll post it as soon as i find it.

 

[ricker]

Of course it includes the Sabbath commandment. If we live a life totally focused on God/Christ as we are directed to in Jeremiah we will no longer need the mirror ( the law ) to point out sin in our life and direct us to the cross and Christ. This is where sanctification starts to become a reality.

Justification is the first step of salvation but after we are justified we need to produce fruit and work the works of being saved. That very much shows the world a changed life and includes keeping God's holy day and His other commandments as well. We don't just magically fall into a catagory that somehow makes breaking God's law an ok thing to do after being saved.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Do you believe we need to produce fruit to be saved? Can you find anywhere in the Bible that says "fruits" is keeping the law? What does the Bible say about "working the works of being saved" and what does it say this is?
When are our "fruits" and "works" good enough for us to be saved? I would like some clarification on the amount so I can be sure I have done enough. I would hate to not have had enough works in the end. Thanks! Ricker

 

[PROPHECYKID]

[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So this is a Law which was written in the book of the law, added because of transgressions, was a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ and because of faith we no longer adhere to it because this law is not of faith. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou didst break, and thou shalt put them in the ark. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The book of the law was placed on the side of the ark but God’s 10 commandments were placed in the ark. The book of the law is mentioned in connection with the services of the old covenant.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is the law used in the sanctuary services of old. This is the ceremonial law. This is Moses Law. The Law associated with the book of the law is the ceremonial law or Moses Law and not the 10 commandments. [/FONT]

 

[PROPHECYKID]

[FONT=&quot]This Law is not of faith. Is the 10 commandments not of faith?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The bible clearly shows that works come as a result of faith. Revelations says that God’s people keep his commandments and have the faith of Jesus. God’s 10 commandments are clearly of faith for because of our faith in Jesus we keep his commandments. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So which law is against faith and why?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I don’t want the post to be too long so I can’t paste long passages but here Paul was preaching in the synagogue about Jesus and he proclaimed that we are justified by belief which is faith and not by the law of Moses. Paul never upheld the keeping of ordinances and ceremonies but condemned it. These things is what Paul referred to when he said that justification is not by the Law of Moses. The verse does seem to suggest that justification came by the law before.[/FONT]