The Scriptures and Authority

[LittleLambofJesus]

The only way to read the Bible and interpret scripture without making errors in interpretation is to read it with the knowledge of the author's intended message...the only way to know this is through history...history shows that this message has been passed down to us through Christ's Church in whom He gave authority (keys to the kingdom of Heaven) and in whom He said..."what you bind on earth, will be bound in heaven...."

Well, you might want to read what some of the ECFs actually did say for yourself, instead of simply taking your churches word for it.

And why should I listen to what the ECF's said and not to what the Spirit and Scriptures say Did they elect the Roman Pope to rule?

http://foru.ms/t6302751-i-deny-the-holy-spirit.html
I deny the holy spirit

How does this explain why some Christian denominations who claim to be lead by the holy spirit will say that other Christian denominations are not saved or lead by the holy spirit when these other Christians assert they are also lead by the holy spirit?

Does the holy spirit lie to people regarding such an issue?

 

[racer]

And why should I listen to what the ECF's said and not to what the Spirit and Scriptures say Did they elect the Roman Pope to rule?

Huh? I wasn't talking to you . . . but, my point was addressed to St. Therese who as a Catholic basis much of her faith on tradition, history and what the ECFs taught--or what the RCC says they taught.

http://foru.ms/t6302751-i-deny-the-holy-spirit.html
I deny the holy spirit

How does this explain why some Christian denominations who claim to be lead by the holy spirit will say that other Christian denominations are not saved or lead by the holy spirit when these other Christians assert they are also lead by the holy spirit?

Does the holy spirit lie to people regarding such an issue?

No, "I" would say that such people are not actually open to truly listening to the Holy Spirit.

You've got me puzzled here. Are you making a point or perhaps being sarcastic?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, "I" would say that such people are not actually open to truly listening to the Holy Spirit.

You've got me puzzled here. Are you making a point or perhaps being sarcastic?

The point was the Roman Church's views of Scriptures vs the non-Roman church's view.
Another words, does the Pope and Roman church have a different Holy Spirit than than us non-Catholics?
These are questions that atheists want the answers to.

http://foru.ms/t6302751-i-deny-the-holy-spirit.html

Notice that later on Stephen was brought before this same group, and he said to them the same thing the Lord Jesus had said: "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do you" (Acts 7:51). They were doing the same thing their fathers had done. In Christ's day they were resisting the Holy Spirit, and the same condition exists today - they are still resisting the Holy Spirit!

 

[Reformationist]

I asked this in another thread numerous times, but have yet to get an answer....

You didn't get an answer or you didn't get an answer that satisfied you?

Where in the scriptures does it say that the scriptures are the authority for Christians

Do you believe the Word of God is not authoritative over the lives of Christians?

and where does it say that all scripture interprets scripture????

Who made that claim? There are explicit passages in the Bible and there are implicit. Proper methods for interpretation are, first and foremost, implicit in light of the explicit.

Also, those who believe the Bible to be the authority, how do you explain the fact that people can interpret them differently and can be lead into error?

People are fallible.

Seriously, is this nothing more than another "my denomination's self proclaimed infallibility makes it impossible for us to be wrong" thread?

 

[StTherese]

The name Peter means "part of a larger rock. Think about it.

Actually, Peter means "rock" in Aramaic it was Kepha, which means "Rock" In translating it into the Greek (which has feminine and masculine words) Rock would have been a feminine word applied to a man...therefore the word was changed in the Greek to be a masculine form of the word......
Read more about it here:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_and_the_Papacy.asp

You did not answer this last part.

Go back and read the end of my post...I answered you already.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Actually, Peter means "rock" in Aramaic it was Kepha, which means "Rock" In translating it into the Greek (which has feminine and masculine words) Rock would have been a feminine word applied to a man...therefore the word was changed in the Greek to be a masculine form of the word......
Read more about it here:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_and_the_Papacy.asp



Go back and read the end of my post...I answered you already.

Here we go with the "peter" again.
Even the Orthodox debunct the Papacy's claim to Rulership.
Besides, there are 122 threads on "peter" already.

Showing results 1 to 20 of 122 for "Peter"
Search took 5.37 seconds.

 

[Ormly]

Actually, Peter means "rock" in Aramaic it was Kepha, which means "Rock" In translating it into the Greek (which has feminine and masculine words) Rock would have been a feminine word applied to a man...therefore the word was changed in the Greek to be a masculine form of the word......
Read more about it here:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_and_the_Papacy.asp



Go back and read the end of my post...I answered you already.

I really am not interested in what Peter's name means. It is irrelevant to me because it has no bearing upon my salvation.
How about objectively speaking to the rest of my remarks. For instance, am I wrong or not about the kingdom of God not being the Church and how about which CC is the correct one and, since there were several bishops of Rome, which one was directly in Peter's succession? Is the Church of Jesus Christ an organism or and organization? I could go on ...

 

[StTherese]

How about objectively speaking to the rest of my remarks. For instance, am I wrong or not about the kingdom of God not being the Church

No, I wouldn't say that they were the same thing. Within the Church is contained all that is necessary for salvation. Jesus came to show us the way, the truth, and the life and that we find those things through Him. He instituted the Church as a means of guiding us on our journey to everlasting life. The Church is His Bride, His Body.

and how about which CC is the correct one and,

There is only one Catholic Church...there are different rites within the CC (Eastern,Latin, etc...) but the different rites only designate styles of liturgy and not a difference of beliefs...all submit to the authority of the pope and hold to the beliefs and teachings of the Catholic Church.

since there were several bishops of Rome, which one was directly in Peter's succession?

Who were the other bishops in Rome? Please site sources....

Is the Church of Jesus Christ an organism or and organization?

Both.

 

[Reformationist]

...all submit to the authority of the pope and hold to the beliefs and teachings of the Catholic Church.

Since when did the EO submit to the authority of the Roman Pontiff? They outright and publically reject his claim of infallibility.

 

[StTherese]

Since when did the EO submit to the authority of the Roman Pontiff? They outright and publically reject his claim of infallibility.

The Eastern Rite Catholic Church is not the same as the Eastern Orthodox Church....

 

[Rick Otto]

LLo'J said:"The point was the Roman Church's views of Scriptures vs the non-Roman church's view.
Another words, does the Pope and Roman church have a different Holy Spirit than than us non-Catholics?
These are questions that atheists want the answers to."

Not a different Holy Spirit necessarily, but a different understanding of that Spirit at least.

That problem then becomes an identity crisis for some. They must have a human authority figure to rest their consciences on.

 

[lionroar0]

Not a different Holy Spirit necessarily, but a different understanding of that Spirit at least.

That problem then becomes an identity crisis for some. They must have a human authority figure to rest their consciences on.

Everyone has a human authority figure to rest their consciences on.

Peace

 

[Ormly]

Jesus never had a liturgy. He never even had a place to rest head ... and I am to believe in the robes of Rome?
.....I don't think so.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Eastern Rite Catholic Church is not the same as the Eastern Orthodox Church....

How come? The Mormon church is also not the same as the Baptist church either LOL.

 

[Oblio]

The Eastern Rite Catholic Church is not the same as the Eastern Orthodox Church....

How come? The Mormon church is also not the same as the Baptist church either LOL.

Because they do not believe what we do, nor are they in Eucharistic Communion with us. If this were true, they would be Orthodox.

Orthodoxy is not defined by a Rite, but rather by our Faith, the Way. One cannot become Orthodox simply by utilizing the DL of St. John Chrysostom, venerating icons rather than statues or optionally dropping the filioque from the Creed.

 

[Rick Otto]

Everyone has a human authority figure to rest their consciences on.

Peace

Your right!
But He doesn't require a sucessor.

 

[Ormly]

Because they do not believe what we do, nor are they in Eucharistic Communion with us. If this were true, they would be Orthodox.

Orthodoxy is not defined by a Rite, but rather by our Faith, the Way. One cannot become Orthodox simply by utilizing the DL of St. John Chrysostom, venerating icons rather than statues or optionally dropping the filioque from the Creed.

Orthodoxy, in my opinion, replaced faith; the Holy Spirit, substituting out the teaching of the Holy Spirit for man's reasoning about the Holy Spirit. Orthodoxy set itself up to be the kingdom of God to its adherents. Ergo, if one violates orthodoxy one is a heretic and doomed to hell, invalidating Paul's declaration in Gal 2.20 ".... I now live ....... by the faith of the Son of God,...." ....*Plus nothing

*[emphasis added]

 

[Oblio]

Orthodoxy, in my opinion, replaced faith; the Holy Spirit, substituting out the teaching of the Holy Spirit for man's reasoning about the Holy Spirit. Orthodoxy set itself up to be the kingdom of God to its adherents.

IOW, (by your admission), Orthodoxy has replaced faith in God because is disagrees with your personal teaching.

Ironic.

 

[Ormly]

IOW, (by your admission), Orthodoxy has replaced faith in God because is disagrees with your personal teaching.

Ironic.

My personal "Teaching"??

I'd rather you say it disagrees with my personal, understanding. In that you would be correct since it is my [our] personal understanding that matters, isn't it?

God doesn't save churches, [small "c"]. He saves people in them that make up His Church. [large "C"]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Because they do not believe what we do, nor are they in Eucharistic Communion with us. If this were true, they would be Orthodox.

Orthodoxy is not defined by a Rite, but rather by our Faith, the Way. One cannot become Orthodox simply by utilizing the DL of St. John Chrysostom, venerating icons rather than statues or optionally dropping the filioque from the Creed.

Huh? How is their communion any different than yours?