The science of face masks

[mindlight]

I'm all in agreement with reduces or helps but so many think it's an outright protection. I bought a mask the other day at a gas station and you could hold it up to the light and see through it. Our state just made it mandatory to wear a mask even if that mask offers zero protection like the one from the gas station. I don't understand why if it's about safety and reduction of the virus that they don't actually have guidelines as to what type of mask. To me that says it's about control not safety. Like saying a liquor store is essential but church is off limits

The infection occurs by droplets sprayed out of a persons mouth by breathing. A distance of 8m can occur in front of a person. If 2 people are wearing masks those droplets have a minimal range and so the likelihood of infecting the other has a very low probability

 

[mindlight]

People need to understand that a mask isn't 100% guaranteed protection.

The problem is that some people are prone to strict black-and-white thinking. And therefore they interpret "not 100% guaranteed" to be the equivalent of 0%. I think some people just aren't able to grasp the concept of relative risk reduction.

If the risk of contagion is reduced by this then that does help prevent the spread of the virus. But I get your point

 

[mindlight]

In my humble opinion I think you're both wrong. I think he's wrong to call it a conspiracy. Governments have to be seen as doing something. The masks aren't being imposed to save us, but, rather, they're being imposed to save the government. It's not social engineering. It's just placation.

And, while they do, theoretically, slow the spread, even the strongest proponents don't claim that masks stop the spread. This is not like avoiding promiscuity to stop the spread of syphilis. You would have to stop breathing to avoid this. It's not foolish to wear a mask in public, but the masks and the isolation will certainly have a negative impact on our society in the long run (but that's another topic).

If the risk is reduced 99% by both parties wearing masks that does eliminate a very large number of potential infections and considerably reduce the reproduction rate of the disease.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I voted “yes” considering the poll is not referring to the fact that a mask is not a 100% solution to the stop of the virus but it is a helpful preventable measure. The idea that people can be deceived into thinking that not wearing a mask in grocery stores or at work is a good thing during this current time we are living in makes me want to weep for humanity and man in general over his own stupidity.

Let's say for example it is a conspiracy theory (of which it is not), the safer play is still to wear a mask because it will not harm you to wear one just in case you are wrong. That is why I look at people I know differently now who don't wear a mask now. It just makes me look at them as if they are really really dumb.

A huge church near my home is packed with cars. I did not notice that anyone was staying in their cars or anything. So they must have been inside. They obviously do not understand that gathering in large groups is a huge risk factor for spreading the virus. This to me speaks to even how my own brethren can be extremely dumb. The virus situation is not over.

Texas pastor accepts ‘full responsibility’ for church’s COVID-19 outbreak, regrets allowing hugs

Churches Were Eager to Reopen. Now They Are Confronting Coronavirus Cases.

I can imagine that some Christians feel that God may protect them because they are worshiping, but we are not to tempt the Lord our God. We should not be cavalier about God protecting us by running into a burning building or by swimming in a pool of sharks that has chum in it. Now, I believe God can protect us but it is in situations where we do not place ourselves in harm's way willingly. If we are in God's will, the Lord most certainly can protect us from anything. But when people break the rules of common sense in regards to loving their neighbor (By not wanting to get them infected), they are not under God's protection. Loving your neighbor is the equivalent of loving God (1 John 4:7-8).

 

[hedrick]

Here is are two articles citing evidence: Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus, and Yes, Wearing Masks Helps. Here's Why

Here a discussion of evidence, and of the early advice not to use masks: Science shows face masks can help control coronavirus spread. In retrospect, the early advice was a really bad idea. Evidence wasn't as strong, they were trying to save supplies for medical staff, and they didn't realize that even makeshift masks were worth doing. But I think it's fair to say that the public message early on included some "spin." That tended to make people not believe authorities when they changed their guidance, even though the new guidance was right.

While it doesn't cite specific studies, this gives good answers to common questions, including one posed in the OP: 5 Questions: Stanford scientists on COVID-19 mask guidelines

 

[topher694]

Is wearing a face harmful or life preserving?. Just had massive argument with relative in UK who plans to visit my parents end July but who never wears a mask. I told him he was being irresponsible and could kill my parents. His main arguments are that face masks cause build up of toxic levels CO2 and Hypoxia ( Oxygen depravation). He regards the whole face mask thing as a government conspiracy, social engineering project to promote online shopping and monitoring of consumers pushed by mainstream media. He says I am not thinking things through and am foolish to wear a mask in public places.

Whose right?

'Deadly mask' claims debunked

Neither.

It is a far more complicated than wearing a mask or not. There are more parameters in play than that. One scientific study may look at one set of parameters, but such a study would not mean one could draw conclusions about a different set of parameters. Scientific studies are by necessity and design very narrow. Drawing broad conclusions based on a narrow study is unwise. Don't get me wrong they are important and should be looked at, but with context. More information and a broader understanding is always better.

 

[Halbhh]

People reasonably will ask: "If 1 particle can infect you, then how can it matter how many particle you get exposed to initially, where a mask only reduces that number to a low number?"

Well, the answer is surprising (at first).

It does matter how many virus particles you are exposed to in that moment of infection.
(How much of the coronavirus does it take to make you sick? - STAT)

It's sorta not what people expect.

Here's another aspect, past only the ability of the body to fend off a low dose at times. When you wear a mask and are exposed to only a low dose of virus, it takes a long time for those virus particles to exponentially grow into 1 billion particles and make you sick.

While this long time passes, the immune system already gets activated, and begins to respond.

But...if you don't have a mask and a sick person coughs on you, instead of a low dose you have a high dose, and that's an entirely different scenario. The virus takes far less time to grow to 1 billion.... That time difference matters.

Time is of the essence, because the immune system needs time to react, and make antibodies, and get going.

That time difference between the low dose with a mask on, and the high dose without a mask can be the difference between life and death for individuals.

In my humble opinion I think you're both wrong. I think he's wrong to call it a conspiracy. Governments have to be seen as doing something. The masks aren't being imposed to save us, but, rather, they're being imposed to save the government. It's not social engineering. It's just placation.

And, while they do, theoretically, slow the spread, even the strongest proponents don't claim that masks stop the spread. This is not like avoiding promiscuity to stop the spread of syphilis. You would have to stop breathing to avoid this. It's not foolish to wear a mask in public, but the masks and the isolation will certainly have a negative impact on our society in the long run (but that's another topic).

 

[tas8831]

His main arguments are that face masks cause build up of toxic levels CO2 and Hypoxia ( Oxygen depravation). ...

Whose right?

'Deadly mask' claims debunked

You are.

The notion of hypoxia and hypercapnia is shown to be absurd by the fact that surgeons and surgical techs/nurses wear them for hours on end with no such issues.
That and oximeter measurements have shown it is BS...

 

[Goonie]

I do find it ironic years after several European countries were making face covings illegal, facemasks are becoming legally required.

 

[pitabread]

I do find it ironic years after several European countries were making face covings illegal, facemasks are becoming legally required.

Ditto in Quebec.

 

[Tanj]

To me that says it's about control not safety.

Could you expand on this further? I really do not understand it at all, how is it in any way "about control"? Face masks actually hide faces, they make things like facial recognition much much harder. Face masks offer the opposite of control. I really don't get this argument.

 

[Brightmoon]

Muslim women are banned from wearing face coverings that hide most of their faces. That’s not for health reasons . People wear medical masks as protection from a viral infection.

 

[mindlight]

I do find it ironic years after several European countries were making face covings illegal, facemasks are becoming legally required.

Yeh now we are obliged to look like bank robbers out of respect for each other

 

[mindlight]

Neither.

It is a far more complicated than wearing a mask or not. There are more parameters in play than that. One scientific study may look at one set of parameters, but such a study would not mean one could draw conclusions about a different set of parameters. Scientific studies are by necessity and design very narrow. Drawing broad conclusions based on a narrow study is unwise. Don't get me wrong they are important and should be looked at, but with context. More information and a broader understanding is always better.

I really hate that answer cause it is like you cannot see the wood from the trees. The evidence is overwhelming that face masks help reduce the spread of this virus. But instead you obfusicate and people like the one in the OP use this as a reason not to wear a mask and then people die as a result.

 

[mindlight]

People reasonably will ask: "If 1 particle can infect you, then how can it matter how many particle you get exposed to initially, where a mask only reduces that number to a low number?"

Well, the answer is surprising (at first).

It does matter how many virus particles you are exposed to in that moment of infection.
(How much of the coronavirus does it take to make you sick? - STAT)

It's sorta not what people expect.

Here's another aspect, past only the ability of the body to fend off a low dose at times. When you wear a mask and are exposed to only a low dose of virus, it takes a long time for those virus particles to exponentially grow into 1 billion particles and make you sick.

While this long time passes, the immune system already gets activated, and begins to respond.

But...if you don't have a mask and a sick person coughs on you, instead of a low dose you have a high dose, and that's an entirely different scenario. The virus takes far less time to grow to 1 billion.... That time difference matters.

Time is of the essence, because the immune system needs time to react, and make antibodies, and get going.

That time difference between the low dose with a mask on, and the high dose without a mask can be the difference between life and death for individuals.

I like that, masks reduce the volume of particles that your immune system has to manage making successful containment more likely

Face masks

• mindlight
• Jul 15, 2020

Why face masks matter

 

[Arc F1]

Could you expand on this further? I really do not understand it at all, how is it in any way "about control"? Face masks actually hide faces, they make things like facial recognition much much harder. Face masks offer the opposite of control. I really don't get this argument.

If safety was the reason we would be told to use a specific mask, eye protection and go through decontamination. Why would states put out guidelines that don't actually keep people safe? That's like saying just put your seat belt around you and don't latch it. That will offer some protection and that's good enough. Some is better than nothing except it isn't.

The control is making us follow rules just because we are told to. Rules that don't actually do anything as I stated above. This is leading up to excepting the mark. We are being conditioned. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Tanj]

The control is making us follow rules just because we are told to. Rules that don't actually do anything as I stated above. This is leading up to excepting the mark. We are being conditioned. That's how I see it anyway.

I don't get any of that. I mean, I'm no Christian, but firstly, it's my understanding taking the mark is a wilful act which doens't involve trickery nor conditioning, secondly, a mask as I said is largely used by criminal elements and is the opposite of what any government would want in terms of control, and finally, your country is mentioned nowhere in scripture. I seriously doubt a single thing could happen in it that matters, biblically speaking. Have you thought about considering this is happening in other countries? You think Xi, Putin and Trump all got together over this?

Is being forced to wear clothing also conditioning?

 

[Brightmoon]

You know that the expression, being to stupid to breathe , wasn’t meant to be literal . But people who refuse to protect themselves even minimally from this virus literally are too stupid to breathe because it will kill or injure them . Take a good look at what actor Nick Cordero went through before he died. YOU DON’T WANT THIS!

 

[topher694]

I really hate that answer cause it is like you cannot see the wood from the trees. The evidence is overwhelming that face masks help reduce the spread of this virus. But instead you obfusicate and people like the one in the OP use this as a reason not to wear a mask and then people die as a result.

Absolutely untrue. And I really hate this answer because instead of embracing open mindedness, critical thinking and healthy debate about the entirely of the issue, you essentially accuse not just anyone who disagrees, but anyone who wants more information or debate of being murderers. Truly pathetic.

 

[Brightmoon]

I wouldn’t discourage anyone from wearing a mask . Even minimal protection is better than none