• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The "Saints" are More Righteous Than We Are...

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sort by date Sort by votes

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Rdr Iakovos said:
The earliest Church understood, as we Apostolic Christians do, that heaven and God are near, and that those who believe in Him "never die." Those who disbelieve this have taken on the ways of the disbelievers and Stoics.
Click to expand...
I understand & believe all that & still don't pray to them.
Tell us now about the ways of the believers that haven't taken on the ways of the heathen.
 
Upvote 0
C

CatholicFlame

The Lord is Risen Indeed
Nov 4, 2007
3,837
256
California
Visit site
✟27,769.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Rick Otto said:
I understand & believe all that & still don't pray to them.
Tell us now about the ways of the believers that haven't taken on the ways of the heathen.
Click to expand...

Well from my studies it seems that the earliest church, like in the first 3 centuries, prayed in this way.

That wouldn't make them heathen though.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I wouldn't say that doing one heathen thing would make a Christian heathen.
I hope you didn't think I'm the kind of person who would do that.

I also hope you don't think I'm the kind of guy who would approve of something just because everybody's doing it &/or did it in the 1st century, as impressive as that is to many people.
 
Upvote 0
R

Rdr Iakovos

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2004
5,081
691
62
Funkytown
✟8,010.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Republican
Rick Otto said:
I understand & believe all that & still don't pray to them.
Tell us now about the ways of the believers that haven't taken on the ways of the heathen.
Click to expand...
I'd rather show you. See you at Divine Liturgy.
 
Reactions: Rick Otto
Upvote 0
C

CatholicFlame

The Lord is Risen Indeed
Nov 4, 2007
3,837
256
California
Visit site
✟27,769.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Rdr Iakovos said:
I'd rather show you. See you at Divine Liturgy.
Click to expand...

Rdr, just because it's true that christians asked the intercession of those in heaven back then, it sure is not enough to think that Rick is returning to the catholic church next sunday!

Rick, I will ask the intercession of your family members who have passed on if you need a little push.
 
Upvote 0
C

CatholicFlame

The Lord is Risen Indeed
Nov 4, 2007
3,837
256
California
Visit site
✟27,769.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0
C

CatholicFlame

The Lord is Risen Indeed
Nov 4, 2007
3,837
256
California
Visit site
✟27,769.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Catholic Christian said:
Awww, come on. Don't be a stick in the mud. Go ahead, give it a whirl.
Click to expand...

Hey hold on now, it took St. Augustine like many years to even say okay, fine, I'll be a christian.

I know Rick is an alright guy, but if it took Augustine that long...
 
Upvote 0
C

CatholicFlame

The Lord is Risen Indeed
Nov 4, 2007
3,837
256
California
Visit site
✟27,769.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Rick Otto said:
I've whirled plenty already, bro.
Do you forget I was raised RC?
Click to expand...

Well I know that.

I guess that not many people know, or do they?

I do know that the church of your childhood is probably not the church of today though.

For one thing, everybody grew up!
 
Upvote 0

Gary51

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2007
5,182
232
South Yorkshire, England
✟28,903.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
The problems with believing that saints are in heaven…

John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - the Son of Man"


Those that deny that simple straightforward statement, look for a way out… Such as saying that… Jesus meant that only people living in the flesh have not gone into heaven.

Well, that is not what the verse says… it does not say… “No one in the flesh has ever gone into heaven except Him that came from heaven – the Son of Man.”

Jesus meant what he said… NO ONE has gone into heaven in any shape or form, other than Himself.

But of course then comes the argument… “What about Enoch and Elijah”

If Enoch and Elijah are in heaven, then it contradicts John 3:13, but we know that the Bible does not contradict, so they are not in heaven.

But according to those that insist Elijah and Enoch are in heaven, then they must be there in the flesh, as they did not see death.

1 Corinthians 15:50
"I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 8:8 (King James Version)
"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

BTW, if one prays to saints… wouldn’t they have to be omniscient like God?
 
Upvote 0
C

Catholic Christian

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2007
3,948
185
63
United States
✟5,032.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Gary51 said:
The problems with believing that saints are in heaven… John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven - the Son of Man"
Click to expand...

Heaven had not been opened yet when Jesus said that.

BTW: What church do you attend, out of curiosity?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Judgment is Necessary
Replies
0
Views
200
Deeper Fellowship
Christsfreeservant
“Faith, Ethics, and Everyday Choices: How Do We Live Righteously Today?”
Replies
9
Views
666
Ethics & Morality
Meowzltov
Midrash "Shoftim" (Judges) "Righteousness through Righteous means" (Deut 16:18-21:9)
Replies
0
Views
885
Messianic Judaism
RabbiJames
Vatican expert: The lives of the saints raise incisive questions for our consciences
Replies
0
Views
70
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
His Anointing Teaches You
Replies
2
Views
348
Daily Devotionals
Christsfreeservant
Menu
Log in
Register