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The Sabbath

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Day, Feb 25, 2002.

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  1. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hi everyone
    Why is it i see people use galatians to do away with the 10 commandments

    The book of GALATIANS

    The book of Galatians is book containing 6 short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is
    mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned at all. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so. Circumcision is one of the laws contained in ordinances.Those laws were nailed to the cross according to scripture.

    COL.2 [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    EPH.2 [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    They will also try and tell you that the law of ordinances are not separate from
    the commandments or the law so i have sent scripture below to prove that this to is not true.

    2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.
     
  2. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

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    Everyone is trying to say that Paul somehow changed everything that Jesus said all along! You notice no one ever uses Jesus words to say that the law was done away?? As if Paul clearified Jesus's words when in fact they are simple and plain - the scriptures in Romans and Galatians are sooooooo vague and can be interpreted many ways.

    How many ways can you interpret these:

    1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

    2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

    Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

    etc etc etc etc . . . . . . . . . .
     
  3. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hey Romans 828
    You posted this
    However, scripture is very clear that under the NEW COVENANT, Jesus is our Sabbath, and that the Sabbath is EVERY DAY in Him. He is our Sabbath Rest.

    OUR REST WITH JESUS

    2 THES.1 [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    When will the rest with Jesus begin? According to scripture its when HE returns.

    REVELATIONS 20 [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    1000 year period of rest

    ISAIAH 66 [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your nameremain.[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

    And according to the WORD of GOD, HIS people will still be keeping the sabbath during that rest.

    2CHR.6 [41] Now therefore arise, O LORD God, into thy resting place, thou, and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, O LORD God, be clothed with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in goodness.[42] O LORD God, turn not away the face of thine anointed: remember the mercies of David thy servant.

    Arise into thy resting place-the 2nd coming of Christ

    PSALMS 132 [8] Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.[9] Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.[10] For thy servant David's sake turn not away the face of thine anointed.[11] The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.[12] If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.[13] For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.[14] This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

    Again! Arise into thy rest

    ISAIAH 14 [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear,and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,[4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased![5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.[6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.[7] The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet:

    Above scripture says it shall come to pass in that day (verse 3)the LORD shall give thee rest. Verse 7 says at that time the whole world is at rest. If someone is trying to tell you that you dont have to keep GODS sabbath because they are resting in Jesus, do not believe them. Believe scripture! The rest with Jesus will not begin until he returns!

    DEUT.12 [9] For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
    [10] But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;

    You may rest assured it will come and scripture points out that those who enter into HIS weekly rest will also enter into HIS 1000yr period of rest. That is if they try to the commandments(all 10) and have and keep the testimony of Christ.
     
  4. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

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    We should be nearing the end of six thousand year days and about to begin the millenium - the seventh 1000 year day as was stated above. And only those that keep the weekly sabbath will enter the 1000yr sabbath rest with Christ Rev 20.

    Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
    5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
    6 Since therefore it remains that some MUST enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,--- how do you define disobedience??
    9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
    10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. --- can you see that we cannot rest from our work 'in Jesus' every day but JUST AS GOD DID ON THE SEVENTH DAY---
    11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

    When you are standing before the throne of God - in the 2nd resurrection - you will never be able to tell God, "but I thought it was ok to lie, steal, murder, covet, dishonor my parents, worship other gods and idols and take Your name in vain, and not keep your Holy Sabbath, because the law was done away"

    I dare you say that to God's face - my kids aren't even dumb enough to reason their way around my rules! They are afraid. The problem with people today is that there is not a proper fear of God anymore - it's all love now - and no respect!
     
  5. Romans828

    Romans828 New Member

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    Well, I have responses to these scriptures referenced above a mile long.
    First, someone above talks about Galations being difficult to interpret and vague. HA, I don't think you can find a clearer passage in the bible. Second, this same person (sorry, I can't remember who) stated something about Paul and then Jesus Words and how Paul can't negate Jesus words, etc. Folks, I see the ENTIRE BIBLE as the INERRENT WORD OF GOD, therefore, whether Paul penned it or Matthew, Mark, Luke or John penned the words of Christ, they are, ALL THE WORD OF GOD so to refute Galations because it was written by Paul and stick strictly with the Words of the Gospels because they are the Words of Christ (Which HE did NOT PEN), then I have to ENOUGH!. This could go on and on, but why bother.
    There is no way that either of us are going to see this any other way, so I am just going to have to say that we need to AGREE THAT WE DISAGREE, and let it lay to rest. We could have this discussion until Christ comes again, and it isn't going to change ANYTHING.
    So, blessings to all,
    Cynthia
     
  6. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hi Truth
    It really wont matter what anyone says at the 2nd coming of Christ.The WORD says whatever prophet people follow they will recieve that prophets reward.

    BLIND LEADIN THE BLIND

    EZEK.14 [7] For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:[8] And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.[9] And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived
    that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.[10] And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

    the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

    MATT.15 [9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.[10] And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.[12] Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?[13] But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.[14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

    And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

    JER.23 [37] Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken?[38] But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD;[39] Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out
    of my presence:[40] And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

    perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

    JEREMIAH 50[4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.[6] My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

    a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten- they have forgotten their restingplace.

    EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

    for a perpetual covenant-These are the only 2 places in the KJV of the bible where you will find the words
    a perpetual covenant Its quite clear! If you are following those shepherds or prophets who say its alright to keep Sunday as the day of worship,to change one of GODS commandments,you will both recieve the same punishment!!!
     
  7. truthseeker2758

    truthseeker2758 New Member

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    Who is getting edified by all this may I ask. It seems to me that there is more focus on who is right and who is wrong. Boasting about how people seem to think they keep the word. It is only by the power and annointing of the Holy Ghost that the Word can be kept.



    All I can say is am I your enemy because I tell you the truth. Whatever happened to the God kind of love among the brethern. Jesus said to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. (might not have got that exactly right) He said a second is like unto it. Love your neighbor as yourself. On this hangs ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

    The final answer: LOVE
    later folks :) :) :) :)
     
  8. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

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    How can you say nonsense - he only quoted scripture. :)
     
  9. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hi truthseeker
    You wrote
    It is only by the power and annointing of the Holy Ghost that the Word can be kept.

    As you can plainly see in scripture below you will only recieve the HOLY SPIRIT if you keep the commandments

    THE HOLY SPIRIT


    JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    HOLY SPIRIT if you keep commandments

    JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    (in order to receive the Holy Spirit we must keep the commandments.What about the 4th)

    ACTS 5 [29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.[30] The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.[31] Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[32] And we are his witnesses of
    these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    (again the Holy Ghost is given to them that obey)

    DEUT.27 [10] Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the LORD thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

    Obey GOD and do his commandments
     
  10. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hello again Truthseeker
    You also wrote
    All I can say is am I your enemy because I tell you the truth. Whatever happened to the God kind of love among the brethern. Jesus said to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. (might not have got that exactly right) He said a second is like unto it. Love your neighbor as yourself. On this hangs ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

    The final answer: LOVE

    Well then i guess we must search the bible to see how we are to love one another and to love GOD.

    GALATIANS 5 [13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the
    flesh, but by love serve one another.[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy
    neighbour as thyself.
    JOHN 13 [33] Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews,
    Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.[34] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another;as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.[35] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have
    love one to another.

    The 2 above scriptures are used by those who practice iniquity(lawlessness).They interpret these to mean, if you love one another you need not keep the 10 commandments. But what does the bible say?

    All the scriptures below tell us how we are to love one another. And there all quite clear!
    Keep the 10 commandments = love

    JOHN 15 [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[9] As the Father
    hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    love GOD=commandments

    1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    love GOD=commandments

    2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that whichwe had from the beginning, that we love one another.[6] And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

    love one another=keep the commandments

    JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do
    well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a
    transgressor of the law.

    break 1 commandment ya break them all(sabbath?)

    ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
    [9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 because there will be some out there that will tell you the "commandments" mentioned are not the 10 commandments. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. There will also be some out there that will tell you since the" keeping of the sabbath" is not mentioned or" thou shalt have no other gods before me"is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored. YIKES!

    If you are not- committing adultry,killing,stealing,bearing false witness,coveting,or breaking
    any other commandment,You are keeping the law! If you are not keeping the law,you are not loving one another(according to the bible) !!
     
  11. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hey truthseeker
    The truth is in the WORD of GOD.Not the word of man

    WALK IN LOVE

    2 JOHN 1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.[6] And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

    The commandment-from the beginning-This is love- we walk after his commandments

    DEUT.11 [22] For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you,to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

    Love GOD-walk in ways-keep ALL the commandments

    JOSHUA 22 [5] But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

    Love the LORD your GOD-walk in all HIS ways-Keep HIS commandments

    EPH.2 [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift
    of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    GOD ordained-Good works-that we should walk in them

    ROMANS 7 [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.[11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.[12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    Ordained-the commandments- law is holy, and the commandment holy

    PSALM 78 [7] That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;

    a stubborn and rebellious generation- They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law. Anyone have any idea when the"DAY of BATTLE’’ might be? PSALM 140 verses 7-10. Anyone who really cares read all you can about the DAY of the LORD.Its when HE returns.See what HE says about HIS sabbath and the rest of HIS commandments. When HE returns,thats it,its over,the fat lady sings!
     
  12. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hello again truthseeker
    You also wrote
    All I can say is am I your enemy because I tell you the truth.

    Well truth seeker in a way you are my enemy

    ACTS 13 [10] And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

    But i still love ya truthseeker!

    enemy of righteousness
    DO RIGHTEOUSNESS

    1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

    If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

    DEUT. 6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

    it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments

    PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.[173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

    for all thy commandments are righteousness

    ISAIAH 48 [17] Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

    LORD-REDEEMER-HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL(any question as to who that is)

    1COR.15 [34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

    1JOHN3 [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is
    righteous.[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

    1JOHN3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    LUKE 1 [6] And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

    PSALM 7 [6] Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.[7] So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high.[8] The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.[9] Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

    You have heard some people say that we will not be judged by our own righteousness.We only need believe in Jesus and his righteousness and nothing more.Psalm 7 speaks of the time when Christ shall return to this earth to judge the people.Read it for yourself.Its very clear!

    1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    If the righteous (those that keep HIS commandments)
    scarcely be saved-
     
  13. Romans828

    Romans828 New Member

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    You can either agree or disagree, that is fine, but in my study of the covenants, this sums it up in a nutshell...

    I exhort you, remember James 1:19 which states that everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. This is, in context, to hearing about the Law of Liberty, which is the Word of God. So, I exhort you to hear me out.

    There are, scripturally, 9 Covenants. A covenant signifies a mutual understanding between two or more parties, it is a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh) which implies the thought of cutting a covenant. All scriptural Covenants follow a particular outline, but for purposes of this post, I will keep them short and sweet. Almost all Covenants (in Scripture)have the following characteristics.
    1. The Words/Promises of the Covenant.
    2. The Terms of the Covenant.
    3. The Oath of the Covenant.
    4. The Book of the Covenant.
    5. The Blood of the Covenant.
    6. The Seal of the Covenant.

    For purposes of this post, I will not list each of these, but try to cut to the chase.

    Okay, follow me here. God's plan from the beginning was to redeem His people, and is recorded all the way back to Genensis 3:15.

    So, the idea from the beginning of time was to point to a Redeemer. In Order to understand WHY we do not live under the Moral Mosaic Law, let me set the stage with the Covenants.

    1. The Adamic Covenant.

    It is the Covenant God made with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden after the entrance of sin expressing His purpose in redemption. (Gen. 3)
    A. The Promise of Blessing (Gen. 3:15)
    B. The Promise of Cursing (Gen 3:14-19)
    C. The Terms (Upon FAITH and trust in God (See Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23 and John 16:8)
    D. The blood fo the Covenant(Gen. 3:21)
    In summary of the Adamic Covenant, it is the "seed" covenant introducing the covenants of redemption. The covenantal language that is expressed in "seed" form in this covenant is developed in fulness in the covenants which follow, leading up to its ultimate fulfilment in the New Covenant. Jesus as the seed of the woman fulfills this Covenant in redeeming man back to perfect and etermal covenantal relationships with God.

    2. The Noahic Covenant.

    It is the Covenant God made with Noah after the Flood involving all creatures and all future generations of mankind. It confirms and adds to God's purpose as stated in the Edenic Covenant.

    A. Promise of Blessing (Gen. 8:15-19, 21, 22, 9:1-7; 11, 15.
    B. Promise of Cursing (gen 9:25-27)
    C. Terms= FAITH and Obedience (Gen. 6:22; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peters 3:20; 11 Peter 2:5); Not to eat blood (Gen. 9:4), Murder Forbidden (Gen. 9:5,6)
    D. The Blood of the Covenant; Noah took both clean and unclean animals on the ark, only clean animals were sacrified to God as burnt offerings (Gen 6:19, 20; 7:2-3; 8-9
    E. The Seal of the Covenant=Gen 9:12-17, the Rainbow was given by God as a token of the Noahic Covenant.

    The Noahic Covenant contains a reaffirmation of the creative purposes of God as stated in the Ednic Covenant.

    3. The ABRAHAMIC COVENANT

    It is the Covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was made after the tower of Babel and the scattering of the descendants of Noah. It involved National Israel, the Seed Messiah, and all believers of all nations. It is the most comprehensive of all Old Testament Covenants.

    A. The Promise of Blessing (Gen 12:2; 26:3; 28:3 and Deut. 28:1-8) Further, there is a long line of scriptures that show the blessing to others (Gen. 12:3), Messianic Blessing, multiplicity of seed, to Israel, and of the Land.
    B. Promise of Cursing= The only curse attached to this covenant is actually a blessing for Abraham and his seed. 'I will curse him that curseth thee (Gen. 12:3)
    C. Terms of the Covenant= FAITH (Clearly stated through scriptures in Gen. 15:6; Psalms 106:31, Galations 3:6; Hebrews 11:8-19; Romans 1:17) and OBEDIENCE.
    D. The Blood of the Covenant=The Bread and Wine (Gen 14:18) When Melchisedek appeared to Abraham at the time of the covenant, he blessed him and ministered to him the "cummunion" of bread and wine, which NT Scripture shows to be symbolic of the body and blood of Jesus. Also, there were animal sacrifies (See Gen 15:7-17) and the Sacrafice of Isaac (Gen 22). God also asked Abraham to offer a human sacrifice. We know what happened, but the picture is the supreme test of faith and obedience was passed by Abraham in this act and God opened his eyes to offer a ram as substitution for his only son. Thus, God the Father led father Abraham to do typically with his only begotten son Isaac, on Mt Moriah, what He Himself as the Father would do acutally with His only begotten Son, Jesus, on Mt. Calvary.
    E. The Seal of the covenant= was called the "covenant of circumcision." It is referred to as a token, a seal, and a sign.

    In summary, the general promise of the Adamic Covenant concerning the Messianic seed of the woman which was narrowed down to the race of Shem under the Noahic Covenant was narrowed further to Abraham, who would become the father of the chosen nation, Israel, through whom the Messiah would come. As the most comprehenisve covenant of Old Testament times the Abrahamic Covenant, either explicitly or implicitly includes in iteself all previous and subsequent covenants. Its ultimate fulfillment is in the New Covenant through Christ and His Church (Gal. 3)

    4. The Mosaic Covenant (The Law).

    This was made with the chosen nation, Israel, after the Exodus and at Mt. Sinai. It was made to be a "schoolmaster" to bring Israel to Christ Jesus, the Saviour of the world.
    A. The Words
    1) The Moral Law=the Ten Commandments which were written on two tablets of stone. They set forth the Divine righteous standard of morality for human conduct in relation to both God and man (Ex. 20)
    2) The Civil Law- regulations which when applied governed every area of Israel's life; civilly, socially, economically, personally and legally
    3) Ceremonial Law= detailed the explicit set of laws governing the sacrifices, the priesthood, the santuary, etc. It forshadowed the person and work of Christ in Grace.
    B. The Promise of Blessing= Israel was to receive the promises of blessing in the Abrahamic Covenant, and the Mosaic Covenant was primarily an addition of conditions to the receiving of those blessings. Thus the statements of promise found in the words of the Mosaic Covenant are actually affirmations of the promises God made in the Abrahamic Covenant (Ex. 23:25-33; Lev. 25, 26)
    C. The promise of curse=the consequences of unbelief and the punishments for disobedience were clearly spelled out to the first generation out of Egypt. (Ex. 22:22-24).
    D. The Terms= In that the Mosaic Covenant was primarily adding conditions to the irrevocable promises of the Abrahamic Covenant, it is filled with numerous "ifs" which become the terms of the covenant. THOUGH UNDER PREVIOUS COVENANTS THE TERMS INVOLVED AN OBEDIENCE THAT AROSE OUT OF FAITH, UNDER THIS COVENANT THE TERM WAS OBEDIENCE THAT AROSE OUT OF THE WORKS OF SELF EFFORT. THUS FAITH OBEDIENCE WAS REPLACED WITH LEGAL OBEDIENCE. (Lev. 18:5; Gal. 3:1-12).
    E. The Blood of the Covenant= God was very particular about how the sacrificial blood was handled. At times the blood was sprinkled upon the furnishings of the Tabernacle, though most often it was upon the brazen altar. Read Lev. 1-7 which discusses the 5 offerings and Num. 28 for the Sabbath and Festival offerings.
    F. The SEAL of the Covenant= The sign or seal of the Mosaic Covenant was the weekly Sabbath day. It is distinctly spoken of as a sign between God and the Nation Israel (Ex. 31:12-17; Ex. 20:10-26; Lev. 19:30; Neh. 9:14; Lev. 23:3)

    There are a number of important facts concerning the seal of the Mosaic Covenant, and because this is LONG, I will list only a few.
    First, there is no mention of keeping the Sabbath from Adam to Moses.
    Second, the Ten Commandments are spoken of as the Moral Law, the fourth commandment concerning the Sabbath was actually a ceremonial law. It was this ceremony that was attached to the Mosaic Covenant as its seal.

    In the New Testament, scripture clearly shows how the Jews had misinterpreted and corrupted the Sabbath. The New Testament reveals that the Sabbath was FULFILLED in Christ, and that the believer under the New Covenant is no longer obligated to keep the Mosaic Covenant Sabbaths. (See Mark 2:27-28; Col. 2:11-17; 2 Cor. 3:1-18; Hebrews 8:6-13).

    In Summary, the Mosaic Covenant finds its perfect fulfillment in the Lord Jesus Christ. He was the only Man who ever perfectly kept the law in all its requirements. He fulfilled and abolished in His cross all that which pertained to the ceremonials and externals of the law. That righteousness which is in the law, which is holy, just, good, spiritual and perfect, finds its fulfilment in Christ Himself re-living His sinless life in the believer who walks not after flesh but after Spirit (Rom 8:1-4). Christ's new law of love of God and man (the Royal Law), written on the tablets of the heart, by the Spirit, enable the believer to live that life that is pleasing to God.

    5. The Palestinian Covenant. I won't go into this too much, but know that this covenant was made in the land of Moab with the SECOND generation out of Egypt of the chosen nation of Israel. It was given at the end of the forty years wandering in the wilderness and just before they entered into the land promised in the Abrahamic Covenant. It laid down for all generations the conditions for entering and maintaining the promised land. In it included the repeat of the Mosaic Law and the conditions for the land.

    6. The David Covenant

    This was made with David after the death of Saul and David's enthronement at Jerusalem. It involved David's Seed, House, and Throne and Kingdom both naturally and spiritually. It pointed ultimately to the everlasting Throne and Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, David's greatest Son. I don't have time to type all of this because I have to go, but know that Christ Himself is the ultimate fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant. In Him David finds both his Lord and his Son.

    7. The NEW COVENANT.

    This was made by the Lord Jesus immediately prior to His death at Jerusalem. It was made with the 12 apostles who represented the House of Israel and the House of Judah, after the flesh, but were the foundation of the New Covenant Church. It became the fulfilment of ALL previous Covenants, fulfilling and abolishing in itself their temporal elements and making possible their everlasting elements. The new Covenant makes possible and brings the believer into the Everlasting Covenant, thus completing the cycle of the Covenantal revelation.

    A. The PROMISE of the Covenant include the promises of blessing s of salvation which include pardon, justification, regeneration, assurance, sanctification, adoption, glorification. I know you all know these scriptures already...
    In it includes the blessing to the Gentiles (the mystery), the outpoured Spirit, healing, deliverance, miracles, eternal life.
    B. The CURSE of the Covenant is a curse on the Jewish Nation for their rejection of Christ. It includes the Curse of the Wicked Nations for their idolatry and immorality, and the CURSE includes and ETERNAL CURSE for rejecting the covenantal relationship with God.
    C. The Terms of the Covenant are yet again brought back to FAITH!! One repents and in faith and obedience, accepts Christ as the perfect fulfilment of all the Covenants.
    D. The Blood of the Covenant= Christ Jesus Himself.
    E. The Seal of the Covenant= The Holy Spirit who brings a new birth, anointing, guidance, leadership, etc.

    In a nutshell, in regards to the 10 Commandments, we do NOT follow the Commandments. While you will find that you follow them because you believe in the Royal Law "Love the Lord thy God will all thy heart, mind and soul and love thy neighbor as thyself", we are NOT under the Ten Commandments.
     
  14. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Galatians is used to talk about requiring to keep the laws because that's what Paul is talking about in that letter. Go look up a group of people called judizers..
     
  15. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

    21
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    Hi Romans 828
    I wont even try to cover all in your long post.That would take days.So ill look at one paragraph and see if it holds water according to scripture.

    You wrote
    In the New Testament, scripture clearly shows how the Jews had misinterpreted and corrupted the Sabbath. The New Testament reveals that the Sabbath was FULFILLED in Christ, and that the believer under the New Covenant is no longer obligated to keep the Mosaic Covenant Sabbaths. (See Mark 2:27-28; Col. 2:11-17; 2 Cor. 3:1-18; Hebrews 8:6-13).

    Mark 2(27)And he said unto them,the sabbath was made for man,and not man for the sabbath:(28)Therefore the son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

    So Jesus said the sabbath was made for man.(not only the Jews).Jesus also said HE is Lord of that sabbath.So where in this scripture does it say we need no longer keep the sabbath?My question is who is lord over your day of rest?I also would like to know how man could be so vain that he would take a day that GOD made for man and change it.Are we smarter than GOD? Many people seem to believe so!

    COL.2 [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    Above scripture says the ordinances were nailed to the cross

    EPH.2 [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

    abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances


    Well romans 828, lets look at these ordinances and see if they are the 10 commandments as you have stated.

    NEH.10 [32] Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the
    service of the house of our God;[33] For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

    atonement for Israel-Theres the shadow-Its now Christ and not the burnt offerings of meat and drink.

    COL.2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    2 CHR.2 [4] Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

    As we can plainly see its not the sabbaths or the new moon(not sure what new moon means yet)or GODS holy days that were nailed to the cross. It was the meat and drink offerings of those days that were nailed to the cross! Think about the last supper! The bread and the wine! JESUS abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances!

    ISAIAH 24 [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they
    that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

    The bottom line is THE DAY OF THE LORD! He will come with fire! They changed the ordinance!
    BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD and not the words of men!

    HEBREWS 9 - ALL OF IT.This chapter explains the blood offerings of the ordinances being a shadow of Christ.

    ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
    [13] Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

    Bring no more vain oblations on the new moons and sabbaths.Well Romans 828 i still havent seen anything about the 10 commandments being nailed to the cross.

    EZEK.45 [15] And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.[16] All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel.[17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    That has now fallen to the PRINCE OF PEACE

    Ill look at last 2 scriptures scriptures you said tells us we need not keep GODS sabbath later today.
     
  16. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

    21
    +0
    sorry about that round face thing that came up in my post.I didnt put it there.
     
  17. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

    21
    +0
    SONG OF MOSES

    DEUT.31
    [21] And for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.[22] Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.[23] And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.[24] And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,[25] That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,[26] Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.[27] For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?[28] Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.[29] For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.[30] And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

    it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness- and evil will befall you in the latter days- Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.


    REVELATION 15
    [2] And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.[3] And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
    [4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

    them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
    And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God.I believe everyone already knows this but i’ll say it anyways.It was the 10 commandments that were put inside the ark.

    When the commandments are brought out as a witness against the people, im sure the 4th commandment will read as it did when it was put in the ark.

    Hi Romans 828- Ill get to those last 2 scriptures you say tells us we no longer need to keep GODS sabbath.
     
  18. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

    21
    +0
    Hi
    2COR. 1-18. I really tried to find anywhere in these verses for anything that even vaguely looked like something that would imply that we could change GODS sabbath.I saw where the laws will be put in our hearts instead of on stone but i find nothing saying man can change any of HIS 10 commandments.

    NEW COVENANT-THE FAULT WAS WITH THEM


    HEBREWS 8
    [6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

    (New covenant - better promises)

    [7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    (The fault is with them - the house of Israel and with the house of Judah!) Not the 10 commandments.
    (God did not make a mistake! As many claim)Nor are they 10 moral suggestions.

    [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    ( The better promises - I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts) Not on stone.
    He didnt say HE was gonna change any of them!But put them in our heart instead of on stone.

    [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    For all shall know me, from the least to the greatest - Is this covenant here now? Does everyone know the LORD?If you believe so i wanna move to your nieborhood. This was written after Christ had risen and verse 13 says the first covenant waxeth old is ready to vanish away. And it surely will ! Read Deut.30.

    DEUT.30 [1] And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,[2] And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;[3] That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.[4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:[5] And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heartof thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.[7] And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.[8] And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

    The LORD will gather thee from all the nations,(In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye) whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee -did i miss something- and HE will circumcise thine heart - and you will do all his commandments because HIS laws will be written in your heart.
    This is the 1000 yr. period of rest that you will find in Revelations.And if you keep HIS weekly rest and the 9 other commandments HE gave us and have the testimony of Christ,you to will enter into this rest.

    2 THES.1 [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
     
  19. Romans828

    Romans828 New Member

    50
    +0
    This clearly has come down to a matter of perspective. You see it from a verse to verse perspective. I see it from a Genesis to Revelation perspective. Not by one verse at a time, but a conglomeration of verses, all illuminating each other. You see apparent contradictions, and that is fine. However, in the study of the covenants, one understands that THIS was God's plan from the beginning.
    We could be here until the cows come home... but I will save each of us lots of time. No matter what each other says to the other, we both feel convictions over what we have studied. I spent 14 weeks studying this very matter...covenants. I "own" it, if you understand what I mean by that. I have heard the likes of Tim LaHaye, Kay Arthur, and Charles Ryrie support this very view that I discovered on my own. It was nice to discover it in scripture, and then read commentaries later, only to discover that many biblical scholars support this very view. (Regarding the sabbath and the Ten Commandments).
    So, basically, you will have your scholars who back you up, and I will have my scholars back me up, and we will still be back to here. So, I just ask you to study covenant and see for yourself.

    Peace,
    Cynthia
     
  20. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

    21
    +0
    hi Romans
    Ill study the covenants
    Just answer me one question
    You have stated this covenant is here now.
    Do you believe everyone knows the Lord, from the least to the greatest? PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS ONE THING?

    [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    For all shall know me, from the least to the greatest - Is this covenant here now? Does everyone know the LORD?If you believe so i wanna move to your nieborhood. This was written after Christ had risen and verse 13 says the first covenant waxeth old is ready to vanish away. And it surely will ! Read Deut.30.
     
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