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The Sabbath

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Day, Feb 25, 2002.

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  1. Romans828

    Romans828 New Member

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    When you study Covenants (and I pray that you do), you will understand why your question above is talking about two different covenants. The New Covenant, which we are under now, was for the CHURCH, Jew and Gentile, receiving redemption through Christ the Savior. It is the promise spoken of throughout scripture. However, the scripture you are speaking of in Hebrews, repeated from Joel, is discussing the Millinium Covenant, God's continued redemptive plan for His Chosen People, Israel. Read the context...He is NOT speaking of Christ's Church, He is speaking about Israel, and Judah!!! The Scripture you are referring to is after Christ's Second Coming, and AFTER the tribulation, during the 1000 year reign.
    It all sounds confusing, I understand, but I literally BEG YOU, please, please study covenant. It is not something that you are EVER going to full grasp, or understand, or even believe, until you study it for yourself. There are SEVERAL wonderful books for studying covenant. A couple are "Covenant" by Kay Arthur (which you must get through Precept Ministries), The Christ of the Covenants (By O. Palmer Robertson); The Two Covenants by Andrew Murray(originally published in 1898, reprinted in 1974)it is an authoritive work on Covenants; The Blood Covenant by H. Clay Trumbull; and "The Covenants" by Kevin Conner (one of my favorites because of the wonderful outline way that he does the book).
    Kay Arthur says it best "Everything God does is based on His Covenant. When you understand how thoroughly the dynamic concept of covenant permeates EVERYTHING GOD says in His Word, and EVERYTHING He does in our lives, you'll come to experienced one of the most STABILIZING, most freeing truths you'll ever know."
    One of my dearest friends said to me one day while we were co-teaching "Cynthia, I believe that the SINGLE biggest reason why there are so many crazy views out there is because people don't study covenant." She is so right. Believe you me, when I tell you that I was one of the most Sabbath-following, Ten Commandment-believers out there. I have always been a perfectionist, and I took it extremely literal. It wasn't until studying covenants, and NOT with just one author, but with several, and COMPLETELY SEARCHING SCRIPTURE on my own, with concordances, dictionaries, Greek and Hebrew Word dictionaries, and SEVERAL cross-references, that I PERSONALLY discovered the truth for myself. I discovered that while we FIND ourselves automatically following the Ten Commandments because of the "Royal Law", we are no longer under Law. I also discovered God's actual purpose for the Sabbath, and how the Sabbath was a ceremonial (not moral) sign of the Mosaic Covenant
    I pray that you, with your wonderful and incredible keen and pertinent questions will seek truth for yourself. Please, Dandylionheart, DON'T take my word for it. Discover the truth for yourself, and when you do, you will have the missing pieces to the puzzle put together. I know that God will richly reward you for doing so.
    Until He Shouts,
    Cynthia
     
  2. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "For all shall know me, from the least to the greatest - Is this covenant here now? Does everyone know the LORD?"

    Know of and know in an intimate relationship as christians do are 2 very different things. I know the devil, we used to see eye to eye on stuff...not anymore since I found Christ.
     
  3. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hi Romans
    you wrote

    Blessings Dandylionheart!!!

    When you study Covenants (and I pray that you do), you will understand why your question above is talking about two different covenants. The Scripture you are referring to is after Christ's Second Coming, and AFTER the tribulation, during the 1000 year reign.


    Well Romans,I was only looking at scriptures that you pointed out as saying we no longer need to keep the sabbath.I looked at all of them.None of them said anything about not keeping the sabbath or any of the 10 commandments.

    Gibbon-sanctify themselves

    Has anyone read the book written by cardinal James Gibbon. The book is called The Faith of our Fathers.In it he explains why the church no longer needs to keep the Sabbath of God. Keep in mind that he should know the history of the church being one step away from popedumship.On page 11 he states that the chuch no longer sanctifys the Sabbath as a day of rest. The church now sanctifys sunday in honor of Christ being raised from the dead. , even though their is no scriptural
    basis for the change.

    It appears to me that the daughters which came out of the mother church still have some of the DNA of the mother church although they wont come out and say they can change the commandments of GOD as does the mother church.
    They all have different ways to get rid of GODS Sabbath.

    EZEKIEL 20[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

    MY Sabbaths-sign-I the LORD sanctify them

    ISAIAH 66[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

    Fire,whirlwind(Day of the Lord)- sanctify themselves(as cardinal Gibbon explained)-one tree in the
    midst (graven image maybe)? I suppose it could even be a wooden cross! Thats a whole nother commandment
    that people ignore.
     
  4. TorahsDisciple

    TorahsDisciple I Come To Serve

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    G_D ordained HIS 7th Day Sabbath from creation and commanded that HIS days be kept forever. (Not forever until the "church" decides to replace it with a false day).

    How can YESHUA be LORD OF THE SABBATH..if the Sabbath no longer exists?

    How can it be "lawful to do good on the Sabbath" if there is neither a law or a Sabbath?

    There is nothing in the entire Bible that ever made the Sabbath void, nor was it ever replaced by another day.

    It is evil to tell people they must work 7 days a week. No one was ever meant to live that way. G_D knows that we need a day of rest and regeneration; after all, HE is the one who made us.

    Anyone can claim a faith....but how many are willing to lay down their every desire to follow HIM 100%- the way HE so ordains, and not the way man chooses?

    The Blessed Shabbat is a joy unto the people of G_D :clap:

    _____________
    ICS- A Torah Observant Christian Ministry
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "How can YESHUA be LORD OF THE SABBATH..if the Sabbath no longer exists?
    "

    Your confusing the issue. Exsistance was not in debate. The following of the law of the sabbath was and as Paul clearly states, we aren't required to.
     
  6. TorahsDisciple

    TorahsDisciple I Come To Serve

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    LOUIS
    As I have already posted that is incorrect. It was years of corruption and anti-semitic doctrines that have taught that in the "church".

    Paul never stated that, in fact, he stated that he never broke the law.

    Scriptures clearly state that faith does not make the law void.

    YESHUA (JESUS) was our example...and HE kept the law faithful..if we follow HIM we must follow what HE taught.
     
  7. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Paul never stated that, in fact, he stated that he never broke the law. "

    Okay, have you ever read galatians? or romans for that matter?

    Romans 14:5 "One man considers one da more sacred tha naother.' another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convin ed in his own mind."

    Its okay not to follow sabbath law.
     
  8. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hi Louise
    Can you honestly tell me that by looking at that verse that it gives man the right to change one of GODS 10 commandments.I could find verses to get rid of the other nine.If you wish to interpret them as such.Dont you consider that as vanity.That man could change one of GODS commandments based on that verse.I really dont understand.WHY?
     
  9. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Can you honestly tell me that by looking at that verse that it gives man the right to change one of GODS 10 commandments."

    Did I say change them? Nope. Like Paul says if rightousness comes by the law then Christ means nothing...which one you wanna choose? We are not REQUIRED to follow those laws, BUT they are a guide on how to live as a christian should. Kinda like a cookbook. To get a good cake you should follow the recipe but you are not required to. Your cake might not be as good or as easy to make, but it still will be a cake.
     
  10. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

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    That scripture is describing how the Jews had regular fast days about once a month and the newle converted gentiles in the church had no such customs - but the Jews would stick there noses up and have and attitude. It caused contention in the congregation - those Jew declared fast days were all that Paul was talking about 'esteeming a day' higher than another - THERE IS NO DISCUSSION OF THE OBVIOUS - SABBATH

    So, if I have to tell my husband a little lie that's ok? And it's ok for me to hate just one person with a passion. And if I just happen to slip a lipstick into my purse at Walmart - that ok with G-d right? :(

    I'm not righteous because I didn't murder someone today - you are right - all the people that didn't lie or steal or sleep with their neighbors wife today aren't automatically righteous! It takes the faith to complete that righteousness - but to say faith is all it takes is terribly irresponsible! Romans and Galatians have scripture that can be twisted and misunderstood! [which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction,
    2 Pet 3:15] yes I've read them both again and agian. but they both still say 'shall we sin'? - CERTAINLY NOT! How do you sin? by breaking the law!

    If I took a huge novel and pulled one pargraph out of the middle and didn't read the rest of the book - I could misunderstand what they were talking about, but when you read the whole book it makes better sense. It is not logical or true that Romans and Galatians negate all the rest of the commandment keeping scripture - you are interpreting them all wrong!
     
  11. TorahsDisciple

    TorahsDisciple I Come To Serve

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    This is a very dangerous doctrine...and a lie.

    You claim that the laws are something we should do but then not do at the same time...that is a contradiction.

    Secondly, you used the example of recipe...ok, if you do not follow the recipe you DO NOT have a cake. If I decide to substitue hamburger meat instead of flour, add a little garlic istead of sugar...guess what..I get meat loaf NOT A CAKE. The entire concept of a recipe means if you HAVE to follow it.

    You can not be obedient to G_D and rewrite HIS laws as you go along..HE is the one that makes them not us.

    Lastly, you are getting too hung up on salvation. I mean the idea is that we are all already Christians.
    The law of G_D is not FOR salvation it is BECAUSE of it.

    The scriptures tell us that if we have love we will obey. It's that simple. If you are only looking for a reward in your actions that is not love. G_D is...HE commands...we love HIM..thus we obey. End of story.
     
  12. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "You claim that the laws are something we should do but then not do at the same time...that is a contradiction. "

    No its not. Get 8 hours of rest a night. That is something you dont' always have to follow, but its a good idea to. Sabbath law is the same way.


    "The entire concept of a recipe means if you HAVE to follow it. "

    Noo, you can fudge on the recipie if you want. It says add 5 ts of something and you add 5 and a half. The point is you don't have to be a legalist on it. Follow it sometimes, but you are not REQUIRED to follow it. *taps you on the shoulder* realize your freedom in christ. This means not being bound to the law as a requirement.

    "The scriptures tell us that if we have love we will obey. "

    Yup, that's right, obey the SPIRIT of the law. BIG difference. what is the spirit of the law? Love God, Love others. If its showing love to take someones sunday shift so they can go be with their child during surgery, you bet I'll take that shift.
     
  13. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    Hi Louise
    So you believe they are simply 10 suggestions from GOD.
     
  14. Dandylionheart

    Dandylionheart New Member

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    6 6 6 Mark of the beast and the 10 suggestions

    REV.13 [16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    If you buy or sell on the sabbath day are you to recieve the mark?

    REV.14 [9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image,and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    above scriptures sign-hand-forehead (very interesting) indignation
    below scriptures sign-hand-between thine eyes(forehead) the LORDS LAW

    EXOD.13 [9] And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

    DEUT.6 [2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged..[8] And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.[9] And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

    DEUT.11 [13] And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,[14] That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. [18] Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.[19] And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.[20] And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:[21] That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as
    the days of heaven upon the earth.[22] For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

    Above scripture-first rain and latter rain - If you keep the 10 commandments
    below scripture-early rain and latter rain

    JAMES 5 [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for
    the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.[8] Be ye
    also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

    until he receive the early and latter rain

    Seems pretty simple. It was said all through the old testament, and all through the new testament. But people have been taught that when the new testament says "keep the commandments",that doesnt really mean the 10 commandments. Its now the 10 suggestions for moral living. Jesus knew what would happen.He warned us that the whole world would be decieve.
     
  15. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "So you believe they are simply 10 suggestions from GOD."

    *sigh* no, but I believe that through christ the law has been followed perfectly so it is no longer a requirement for me. See romans for more info...chapter 14 ;) I'm free, how about you?
     
  16. Terri

    Terri Senior Veteran

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    [move] :D :D :D I'm Free! :D :D :D [/move]
     
  17. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

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    The only problem with this theory, is that you abuse grace..

    Hope everyone has a good Passover this evening...

    Pray for the peace of Jerusalem

    Shalom
    Patrick
     
  18. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "The only problem with this theory, is that you abuse grace.. "

    No I don't. I just don't make the law what it once was. No where did I say we should never. Just that we don't have to. You forget the true meaning of the sabbath. It was made for man to have a day of relaxation. If you don't need it that week, you don't have to do it. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. :) It is not abusing grace to use the day what it was ment for.
     
  19. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

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    Messianic
    When I read this:

    Exd 20:8
    Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exd 20:9
    Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exd 20:10
    But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the
    LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work
    , thou, nor
    thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
    maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is]within thy gates:

    And then read what you wrote (typed), it's very easy for me
    to see the truth..... Jesus never said that we could pick
    and choose what commandments we want to keep...

    Lev 26:3
    If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my
    commandments, and do them;

    Rev 14:12
    Here is the patience of the saints: here [are]
    they that keep the commandments of God
    ,and the faith of
    Jesus
    .

    I don't see a dividing point in the above verse? It says
    they that keep the commandments of God AND the faith of Jesus.
    Not, keep the commandments they so choose because of they're
    faith in Jesus........

    Hope everyone is having a nice feast of unleavened bread..

    Patrick
     
  20. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Jesus never said that we could pick
    and choose what commandments we want to keep"

    Did you miss the part where Jesus said it was okay to work on the sabbath? Did he not say it was okay to break sabbath law and take your oxen out of a pit? Its okay, sorry to break it to ya, but Jesus said its okay as long as you don't break the spirit of the law. Don't be a legalist, Christ wasn't ;) You don't seem to understand. If I am a christian I have christ's righteousness. Regardless of my actions I have "kept" the commandments because I have Christ's righteousness. Don't burden me with your legalism, because it won't work, I've got Christ as my interessor :) I am free. I think you need to read romans.
     
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