The Sabbath verses Sunday

[sparow]

yes new covenant Not the same as the old covenant..see Heb 8:9

But did you read Heb 8:11. This has never been true of Israel at any time in history, it certainly is not true of Christianity. There are differences with the new covenant; but the differences do not involve the terms only the fruition, that is what is required of God.

 

[BobRyan]

You do reinforce what I have said, except for, "since salvation is not "by works". This seems to reflect the in vain debates and doctrines of men, or at least works are subjective. I believe Peter or James defined works as doing what God requires. Salvation is by covenant (contract).

Works in a good context is like Christ's statement in Matt 7 "by their fruits you shall know them", works of faith.
Eph 2:10 "created unto good works that we should walk in them"

Works in a bad context is "works apart from faith"

 

[BobRyan]

Well it is rather inconsistent when many Christian make a big deal about having "The Ten Commandments" in public places and then perhaps don't realize that they are not strictly keeping them. Any why stop there?

We also the Ten Commandments of

Exodus 34

1. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. 15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.
2. 17 “Do not make any idols.
3. 18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
4. 19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.
5. “No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
6. 21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.
7. 22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God.
8. 25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.
9. 26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.
10. “Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”

using scissors to read scripture?

 

[sparow]

Works in a good context is like Christ's statement in Matt 7 "by their fruits you shall know them", works of faith.
Eph 2:10 "created unto good works that we should walk in them"

Works in a bad context is "works apart from faith"

Agree, but works is a aphorism associated with false doctrine and earning points.

 

[trophy33]

Anything can be true when placed in a convenient context. "What matters is that no day keeping is given to Christians", if we assume this is a true statement, then this statement defines Christians as having nothing to do with the God of Israel. Sadly, you are right in too many cases; in too many cases Christians follow teachings of men, conjured up ideas they call New Covenant, that they cannot articulate; Some follow Paul instead of Christ; their New Covenant has nothing to do with the God of Israel.

If one is not able to see that the Gospels are the historical record of Jesus confirming the old covenant, the one is on the wrong track.

This is not the first time this topic is discussed and it has been proven many times that the only defense for Sabbath or Mosaic Law keeping for Christians is just some extrapolation from the Old Testament or from personal habits of Jewish Christians.

No commandment, not even a recommendation given to Christians regarding that. And many explicit places against that.

Those things were just temporary shadows.

 

[pasifika]

But did you read Heb 8:11. This has never been true of Israel at any time in history, it certainly is not true of Christianity. There are differences with the new covenant; but the differences do not involve the terms only the fruition, that is what is required of God.

read John 6: 45 (this for both Israel and Christianity)

 

[sparow]

This is not the first time this topic is discussed and it has been proven many times that the only defense for Sabbath or Mosaic Law keeping for Christians is just some extrapolation from the Old Testament or from personal habits of Jewish Christians.

No commandment, not even a recommendation given to Christians regarding that. And many explicit places against that.

Those things were just temporary shadows.

These things cannot be proven, there only is you interpret the scripture one way, and I another way, the spirit tells you one thing and tells me another thing; there is a promise that those who seek the truth will find it.

There is Matt 5:18-19, ..... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass away from the Law ..... ..... Who so therefore shall break one of these the least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of God; but whoso shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in kingdom of God.

To my mind Matt 5:18-19 says the Law as presented by Moses remains until heaven and earth pass away. and goes on to say if our righteousness does not exceed that of the pharisees we will not enter the kingdom. These are not shadows mate.

You seem to be following Paul, I follow Christ.

 

[sparow]

read John 6: 45 (this for both Israel and Christianity)

Read post #47

 

[trophy33]

There is Matt 5:18-19, ..... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass away from the Law .....

Commonly misused verse by SDA and other sabbatarians. If you will read the verse to the end, it says "until all is fulfilled". The Mosaic Law with all its shadows was in place till Christ fulfilled everything - in his death, resurrection and 70AD coming.

You seem to be following Paul, I follow Christ.

There is no fight between these two.

 

[HIM]

You seem to be following Paul, I follow Christ.

So Paul was not inspired by Christ in His Letters to us?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Commonly misused verse by SDA and other sabbatarians. If you will read the verse to the end, it says "until all is fulfilled". The Mosaic Law with all its shadows was in place till Christ fulfilled everything - in his death, resurrection and 70AD coming.

Can you please point to the verse that says “all fufilled” means until 70AD and not when all the Phopecies in scripture are ALL fulfilled like Jesus stated Mat 5:18 and something yet to be fulfilled like Jesus coming on the Clouds and His saints meeting Him in the air, once He destroys all sin and sinners once and for all and wiping away everyone's tears and forever being with Christ. If you can please point to that scripture where fulfills means 70AD.. I don’t see that in Mat 5:18, appears to be added, something we are told not to do. Pro 30:5-6 as it changes the message Jesus is trying to teach us, only the Truth of His Word sanctifies John 17:17 , not our truth and Jesus doesn't need our help.

Basically you're teaching before the cross one can’t vain God’s holy name, worship other gods, covet, steal or break the least of these, but after we can despite Jesus saying doing these things affects our status in heaven i.e. Judgement. Mat 5:19 which reconciles with the rest of scriptures like Rev 22:14-15 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 7:21-23, Ecc 12:13-14 James 2:10-12 Rev 14:11-12

 

[Gary K]

yes new covenant Not the same as the old covenant..see Heb 8:9

No. The NC was given to the Jews so the law in both covenants is exactly the same. But what are the results of the NC?

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The results of the NC exactly parallel John 17: 3.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So thr results of having God's law written in our hearts is that we know God as a person, and Jesus says that is life eternal. That means salvation is nothing more, and nothing less, than than having a personal relationship with God. John tells us that whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not. So John, Jesus, and Jeremiah all affirm the same concept. OT and NT.

 

[pasifika]

No. The NC was given to the Jews so the law in both covenants is exactly the same. But what are the results of the NC?

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The results of the NC exactly parallel John 17: 3.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So thr results of having God's law written in our hearts is that we know God as a person, and Jesus says that is life eternal. That means salvation is nothing more, and nothing less, than than having a personal relationship with God. John tells us that whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not. So John, Jesus, and Jeremiah all affirm the same concept. OT and NT.

Hi @Gary K, No the law in NC is not the same as the OC, that is the mistake Sabbatarians have...one law requires works to fulfill the other requires Faith to fulfill see Romans 3:27,28

what's the result of the NC?
Ans: Gods Righteousness

Gods law written in our hearts is refer to His Spirit growing within our hearts NOT letters physically written in our hearts, you should know better..

 

[Gary K]

Hi @Gary K, No the law in NC is not the same as the OC, that is the mistake Sabbatarians have...one law requires works to fulfill the other requires Faith to fulfill see Romans 3:27,28

what's the result of the NC?
Ans: Gods Righteousness

Gods law written in our hearts is refer to His Spirit growing within our hearts NOT letters physically written in our hearts, you should know better..

Did you actually read my post? If not, I can understand your conclusion because it is exactly the opposite of what Jeremiah and Jesus say.

 

[pasifika]

Did you actually read my post? If not, I can understand your conclusion because it is exactly the opposite of what Jeremiah and Jesus say.

which part of that post you want me respond to?

 

[Gary K]

which part of that post you want me respond to?

The entire post.

 

[sparow]

So Paul was not inspired by Christ in His Letters to us?

The thing is Jesus was the fulfillment of prophesy, John the Baptist fulfils prophesy, with Paul we only have Paul's own testimony. Jesus said a prophet may not testify of himself unless the Father (OT) is a second witness.

 

[Lukaris]

Paul is an apostle of Jesus Christ picked by the Lord Himself and testified among the apostles ( Acts 9:27, from the overall account of Acts 9:1-27).

​

 

[pasifika]

The entire post.

Ok, I already responded in regards to the Law. i.e. not same law under OC & NC in post#53

For the Jews under the NC, is Not outwardly but inwardly.

 

[Gary K]

Ok, I already responded in regards to the Law. i.e. not same law under OC & NC in post#53

For the Jews under the NC, is Not outwardly but inwardly.

So you just reject scripture you disagree with. Not a good thing to do.