The Sabbath: Universal law or Mosaic shadow?

[ralliann]

If valid, keeping the Sabbath isn't listed among the seven laws of Noah, and hence, it wouldn't be a universal law. Is that what you mean? Granted, the seven laws of Noah seem to be tradition rather than from Scripture.

Why do you designate it "not scripture?" Noachide law comes from scripture.

 

[ralliann]

I appreciate your kind response. I'm not sure the Sabbath command was given to man before the time of Moses. Is this taught anywhere in Scripture? Even if it is, wasn't Adam commanded things that aren't universal laws, such as to tend the garden (Genesis 2:15), to name the creatures (Genesis 2:19), and to abstain from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17)?

Also, while there are things God planned for us, is the Sabbath one of them? It seemed that was planned for the Jews:

• Exodus 16:29: "See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath..."
• Exodus 31:14: "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.'"
• Exodus 31:16: "Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant."
• Etc., etc.

While the Sabbath was planned for the Jews, does the Bible ever say it was planned for us? For us, we're told not to come short of God's "rest" (Hebrews 4:1), a "rest" connected with the rest God had on the seventh day of creation (Hebrews 4:3-4). What is this "rest"? I think the answer is key. The disobedient weren't able to enter the "rest" even though God rested way back at the beginning of creation, on the seventh day (Hebrews 4:3-5). And since the "rest" must be entered in by some and since it wasn't entered in by the disobedient, then it must be a different day than when they entered Canaan; in other words, the day is "Today" (Hebrews 4:6-7). Otherwise, the Psalmist, who already was in Canaan, wouldn't have spoken of "Today" as being another day (Hebrews 4:8). So there remains a Sabbath rest for God's people, (Hebrews 4:9), one we must be diligent to enter (Hebrews 4:10-11).

Doesn't the passage suggest that our connection to God's seventh-day rest isn't in the Jewish Sabbath (i.e., not working every Saturday), but rather, the rest that we're obtaining as Christians? If so, then it seems Paul would tell us not to be judged about the old Sabbath days in Colossians 2:16–17 (NKJV, emphasis mine):


So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.


While the Jews remembered God's day of rest by keeping the Sabbath (i.e., not working on Saturdays), doesn't Hebrews 4 teach that our connection to God's day of rest is actually by being diligent to obtain salvation "Today" (Hebrews 4:9-11)? What do you think?

The Sabbath was also a memorial unto their redemption from slavery in Egypt. An event which designated (set them apart) as the Children (seed) of promise to Abraham, from all the other sons of Abraham.
Ex 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
Ex 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
Ex 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
Therefore, the observation of it, is a perpetual covenant for them.

Ex 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
A memorial..of their slavery in Egypt.
Deut 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

This is really no different than the passover memorial.
Jews of the circumcision, were the distinct seed of promise in the covenant made with their father Abraham in Genesis 15. None other seed were recipients of that promised designation.

 

[eleos1954]

Not the "letter" of the law which means don't follow it because it was written in the Law..but follow as your "conscience" tells you to...as it says "if anyone knows the good they ought to do and don't do it that is sin"...so if I gossip, or mocking someone etc is Not a good thing to do because I know that if someone does that to me I feel unhappy etc...so this not written in the Law but is a sin, because you act unjust to your brother or sister..so is much deeper then those who follow the "letter" as a way to live right with God...the main issue is the state of our "heart" which can either bring forth good or bad fruit...

9th commandment

“Thou shalt not bear false witness” forbids: “1. Speaking falsely in any matter, lying, equivocating, and any way devising and designing to deceive our neighbour. 2. Speaking unjustly against our neighbour, to the prejudice of his reputation; and (which involves the guilty of both).

 

[eleos1954]

I didn't say that all of the Ten Commandments are no longer binding today. In fact, I listed the prohibitions against murder and adultery as prime examples of universal commandments. However, the Ten Commandments itself is Mosaic in nature, but most of its commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, all except the Sabbath, as far as I know. Are you saying that the Ten Commandments is binding today? If so, why does Paul call it "the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones," calling it "what is passing away" (2 Corinthians 3:7-11, NKJV)?

Also, in Romans 7, Paul says that a woman can't remarry if her husband's still alive. However, if he's dead, she's released from the law of her husband (Romans 7:1-3). In the same way, we've become dead to the law in order to be married to Christ (Romans 7:4). This doesn't mean the law is sin, however; after all, the law we've become dead to taught, "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7). Here's a question: Where in the law we've become dead to is the command, "You shall not covet"?

I think the "Jesus was a Jew argument" is valid, actually. If we had to follow everything Jesus did as a Jew, then do we need to be circumcised (Luke 2:21)? Do we need to tell lepers to show themselves to the priests and offer what Moses commanded to offer (Mark 1:44)? Etc., etc.

Evidentially, you include the 10 as part of the mosaic law .... the mosaic law (not the 10) were nailed to the cross

there is indeed law .... else how does God judge justly?

Why some think the Sabbath is exempt .... when Jesus showed by His entire life of keeping it makes no biblical sense.

Romans

"For now we have been delivered from the law." It doesn't mean delivered from obedience; it means the penalty of the law. "Having died to what we were held by, so we should serve in a newness of the Spirit, not the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin?" God forbid! "Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.

What I am saying is .... the law leads us to Christ and THEN Christ leads us back to the law .... and sends the Holy Spirit to help us overcome sin (transgression of the law) .... motive .... the motive is love else all is in vain.

A lot of the bible is "jewish" in nature .... that is mostly written by jews ... so is it just for Jews? Of course not. If one is going to discount the Sabbath due to Jesus being a Jew .... then why not discount everything He taught because He was a Jew?

We are circumcised ... in the heart.


Romans 2:25-29
Holman Christian Standard Bible

Circumcision of the Heart

25 For circumcision benefits you if you observe the law, but if you are a lawbreaker, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if an uncircumcised man keeps the law’s requirements, will his uncircumcision not be counted as circumcision? 27 A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision.

28 For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. 29 On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter. That man’s praise is not from men but from God.

We are Jews and we are circumcised.

 

[DamianWarS]

I see no scripture that you presented to make your case.

If you are following the Spirit of the law, you automatically are keeping the letter. The Spirit of the law does not grant you permission to worship other gods, bow to idols, break the holy Sabbath day or vain Gods name, which is how we show love to God when we do these things. The Spirit of the law does not allow for murder stealing coveting or lying. The Spirit of the law is greater than the letter, not lesser.

Jesus came to magnify the law of God which does not mean make lesser Isaiah 42:21.

Sabbath is biblically ushered in on the 7th day, not from the law. Sabbath is not defined by the law but the law by the Sabbath. the creation account is written through a chiastic pattern of

A1 Gen 1:1 (opening/bookend)

B1 Gen 1:2 (formless, void, darkness, general "unrest")

C1 Gen 1:3-5 (day 1 - light/darkness)

D1 Gen 1:6-8 (day 2 - waters/sky)

E1 Gen 1:9-13 (day 3 - land)​

C2 Gen 1:14-19 (day 4 - fill the light/darkness with stars, moon, sun, etc..)

D2 Gen 1:20-23 (day 5 - fill the water skies with fish birds)

E2 Gen 1:27-31 (day 6 - fill the land with land animals, man)​

A2 Gen 2:1 (closing/bookend)

B2 Gen 2:2-3 (completion, fullness, light, rest)
​

B1 and B2 parallel unrest and rest. 1:2 speaks of a formless empty void and darkness everywhere. this is paralleled with 2:2-3 where it is a completed new creation full of life and light. The entire creation account foreshadows Christ with a light coming to a darkness that results in rest, or in a salvation experience of our dark purposeless self coming into light and being reshaped by Christ who gives us rest

The creation sabbath is missing the requirement of the law but still ushers it in, the law remembers this sabbath through physical acts. Christ then comes and gives us this rest, the same rest the law is remembering, the same rest on the 7th day. He can give it because he was there when it was made.

 

[guevaraj]

they are explicitly defined together as a whole day "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

Brother, you contradict God when He gives a full Sabbath in the Promised Land that begins and ends with the same word and not different words.

It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NKJV)​

Unlike a full Sabbath that starts as it ends, with the same word, half a day ends with a different word than the one it begins!

What we need to begin the first day as it ends is an earlier morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the "morning".

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[DamianWarS]

Brother, you contradict God when He gives a full Sabbath in the Promised Land that begins and ends with the same word and not different words.

It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NKJV)​

Unlike a full Sabbath that starts as it ends, with the same word, half a day ends with a different word than the one it begins!

What we need to begin the first day as it ends is an earlier morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the "morning".

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The text contrasts evening with morning and this is a parallel with dark/light and night/day. It does not however contrast evening with "early morning" that is what you have added. Just as Sabbath starts in the evening so does the darkness start in the evening and the light start in the morning. These are references to the starting points not references to their ending points. Adding in the style of Leviticus of evening to evening to define what morning means in Genesis is unwarranted. The text speaks for itself and there is no need to question it.

The order is important as the earth starts in darkness and then light comes which is a powerful metaphor for Christ but also with our own bodies, first in darkness then light through Christ. Baptism is the same, first going under then coming up, baptism doesn't start coming up out of the water then going back down which would just be silly. Resurrection we die first then have new life. To reverse this order and say darkness comes after light would have a counter gospel message saying death wins.

 

[guevaraj]

These are references to the starting points not references to their ending points. Adding in the style of Leviticus of evening to evening to define what morning means in Genesis is unwarranted.

Brother, again you contradict God's word with yours.

It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NKJV)​

You should let God tell you what He means to say instead of you adding your own contrary ideas to what God says. God uses the same word to begin and end the Sabbath, therefore it is not true what you say that they only begin and do not end a full Sabbath or half.

You realize that there is a "morning" between those two "evenings" of the Sabbath in Leviticus that separate the halves that God called "day" and "night" on the first day in Genesis.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

A previous morning to morning day of the week is confirmed in the following passage. The "night" before is the weekday before and the "night" of the current weekday is the "night" to come. Confirming a weekday from morning to morning where "night" follows "day". The weekday as defined by God in Genesis ends in the "night" from evening to morning because before was the "day" from morning to evening forming a weekday from morning to morning with an evening in the middle that divides both halves that God called "day" and "night" in that order.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Kilk1]

I will respond more to this later when I have more time since I am leaving out of town.

Just some quick thoughts though:

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27, He did not say Jews only, so that should clear up any confusion if God only wants Jews to keep holy the same day that God keeps holy. Israel in the bible has a deeper meaning- it's God's people and not necessarily a nationality.

My previous post addressed your argument from the fact that the Sabbath was made for man. Since you didn't respond to my reply but rather restated what you said last time (which, since you were busy leaving town, could be understandable ), I'll post it again: The same Jesus who said the Sabbath was made for man also referenced certain Mosaic laws that overrode the practice of the Sabbath on special occasions. He referenced work the priests did in the temple (Matthew 12:5) and circumcision (John 1:21-24), among other things. Could Mosaic laws ever supersede a universal law such as murder or adultery?

In saying the Sabbath was made for man, the contrast isn't that the Sabbath was made for man and not for Jews; it's that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. If the word "man" must mean "both Jews and Gentiles," then do you believe that the Old Testament laws of clean/unclean apply today?

Leviticus 5:2-3 (NKJV, emphasis mine) : "Or if a person [He did not say Jews only] touches any unclean thing, whether it is the carcass of an unclean beast, or the carcass of unclean livestock, or the carcass of unclean creeping things, and he is unaware of it, he also shall be unclean and guilty. Or if he touches human uncleanness—whatever uncleanness with which a man [He did not say Jews only] may be defiled, and he is unaware of it—when he realizes it, then he shall be guilty."

I could give other examples where "man" is used where it doesn't automatically prove that it's "both Jews and Gentiles," but I assume this should be enough.

Does God only want a sign between Him and Israel or a sign between Him and God's people i.e., people who follow God's Word?

For the verses speaking of the Sabbath, it's the former, as the verses from my last post show (NKJV, emphasis mine):

• Exodus 16:29: "See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath..."
• Exodus 31:14: "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.'"
• Exodus 31:16: "Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant."
• Etc., etc.

However, this covenant between God and Israel was temporary, replaced by the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-13). It's the new covenant that was made for all people, Gentiles included (Acts 15:13-21), but I don't read anywhere in the new covenant of people needing to keep the weekly Sabbath holy.

Does God only want to sanctify the Jews or everyone who follows God's Word?

It's the same the last question. Under the old covenant, we're told in Exodus 31:14 (NKJV, emphasis mine): "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.'"

However, under the new covenant (which again, is a covenant that I don't currently see binding the Sabbath), God doesn't make any distinction between the Jews and Gentiles, as you say in the next quote:

God makes no distinction between Jews or Gentiles if you are one in Christ Gal 3:28

Amen! And where is Galatians 3:28 written? The new covenant. Before Jesus died and instituted the new covenant (Colossians 2:13-14; Hebrews 9:15-17), Gentiles were without Christ (Ephesians 2:11-12). But now, through the cross, Christ ended all that, bringing us all together under the new covenant (Ephesians 2:13-16).

And again, I don't see the Sabbath being commanded in the new covenant. Jesus practiced the Sabbath on earth during the time of the old covenant (which was in effect before He died, Hebrews 9:15-17). However, if what Jesus did before He died, under old-covenant times (Hebrews 9:15-17), proves we must do them today under the new covenant, then do men of God also need to be circumcised (Luke 2:21)? Do we need to tell lepers to show themselves to the priests and offer what Moses commanded to offer (Mark 1:44)? Etc., etc.

Old covenant practices are shadows of better things to come. The closest references I can find to the Sabbath are in Hebrews 4:9-11 and Colossians 2:16-17. They seem to suggest that "being diligent to enter God's rest 'today'" is the new covenant's spiritual Sabbath, rather than ceasing from work on Saturdays, and that the holy days of the old covenant (festivals, new moons, sabbaths) were merely shadows of things to come, pointing to Christ. I'm open to an alternative interpretation of these passages, though, if they can work with the statements made in these passages.

Will heaven be segregated and only the Jews who are saved will worship the Lord on His holy Sabbath day or will it be "ALL FLESH" who are saved that will be worshipping the Lord and HIS holy Sabbath day for eternity Isaiah 66:23

Isaiah 66:23 mentions both new moons and sabbaths. It seems to just be a way of saying "from month to month and week to week." However, if Isaiah 66:13 proves that everyone must observe sabbaths just because it mentions sabbaths, then wouldn't it also prove that everyone must observe new moons because it mentions new moons? Be careful with this verse, because making it mean we must observe new moons and sabbaths today would seem to make the verse contradict Colossians 2:16-17, so I hope that isn't what you're saying. I say this in sincerity, my friend.

Wish I had more time but that's all I have for now maybe @LoveGodsWord or @Freth or @BobRyan can respond to the rest of your post. Getting this right is important because we are talking about the holy day of the Lord thy God, Exodus 20:10 Isaiah 58:13 13 that God commanded us to Remember and keep holy Exodus 20:8 which sadly is not being taught today, but that was predicted in the scriptures. The same universal law of murder, adultery etc. is the same covenant that God gave the Sabbath. This is a covenant of Ten according to God Exodus 34:28 not nine. These laws are written in our hearts in the New Covenant Jer. 31:33, Hebrews 8:10 so we obey now out of our love John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and written in our minds so we remember to do them James 1:22, Revelation 22:14

God bless!

While murder and adultery are universal laws, they're not such simply because the Ten Commandments mention them, as the Ten Commandments are is Mosaic in nature. That said, most of its commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, all except the Sabbath, as far as I know. Are you saying that the Ten Commandments are binding today? If so, why does Paul call them "the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones," calling it "what is passing away" (2 Corinthians 3:7-11, NKJV)? (Again, most of what was in the Ten Commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, so we should follow them, but the Sabbath isn't reiterated, from what I can tell.)

Also, in Romans 7, Paul says that a woman can't remarry if her husband's still alive. However, if he's dead, she's released from the law of her husband (Romans 7:1-3). In the same way, we've become dead to the law in order to be married to Christ (Romans 7:4). This doesn't mean the law is sin, however; after all, the law we've become dead to taught, "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7). Here's a question: Where in the law we've become dead to is the command, "You shall not covet"?

Wish I had more time but that's all I have for now

No worries. These posts are long, and since you'll be busy, feel free to take as much time as you need to reply. Until then, my friend!

 

[Kilk1]

the surface meaning of the commandment is for the Jews but the commandment is something far deeper. the commandment itself is not rooted in law it is rooted in the 7th day and has a deeper meaning of spiritual rest, not physical rest. So we still value and honor the commandment but we need to recognize what it points to not its interjection state in the law. The sabbath is not defined by the 4th commandment but rather the 4th commandment has a very physical pragmatic focus of the sabbath locked in a specific point of time and under the lens of Moses it is law, under the lens of Christ it is something more powerful. The Sabbath points to a restoration that only Christ can give, a rest from the toil and work that only the natural can give, which includes all the dirt and grime that is a part of it. The focus shifts to redemption and cleansing from this work. You can call this a salvation metaphor but our goal is not "salvation or to be "saved" it is going back to the garden experience and Christ allows us to enter that garden again and walk with God in the cool of the day rather than hide from him trying to cover up our shame. To look to the Sabbath and only see the 4th commandment not only misses the point but it is dull and uncreative and seems to sweep the rest of scripture under a rug.

What passage would you use to support that the 4th commandment is part of something bigger? Would Hebrews 4:1-11 (especially Hebrews 4: be an example, in your view?

 

[Kilk1]

The Sabbath is indeed reiterated in the New Testament. Jesus kept the Sabbath, even in death. The disciples kept the Sabbath. Jesus mentions the Sabbath being kept when the great tribulation starts. Isaiah mentions the Sabbath being kept in heaven perpetually (yes, I know that's OT). Jesus calls Himself Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus said that the Sabbath is made for man.

Jesus and the disciples led by example throughout the New Testament. The first four commandments were being observed, as is made clear in scripture. "If you love me, keep my commandments," is an all-encompassing statement concerning the law of God. How do we know this? John 6:38, "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

Hello! Yes, Jesus kept the Sabbath when He was on earth. However, if we had to follow everything Jesus did as a Jew, then do we need to be circumcised (Luke 2:21)? Do we need to tell lepers to show themselves to the priests and offer what Moses commanded to offer (Mark 1:44)? Etc., etc.

The old covenant was between God and Israel and was temporary, replaced by the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-13). It's the new covenant that was made for all people, Gentiles included (Acts of the Apostles 15:13-21), but I don't read anywhere in the new covenant of people needing to keep the weekly Sabbath holy.

As for the tribulation of Matthew 24:40, it would be hard to travel during the Sabbath in those days whether you personally needed to practice the Sabbath or not. Why? The Jews kept the Sabbath, and being in Jerusalem meant you were surrounded by Jewish law. As Albert Barnes explains (bold emphasis and bracketed text mine; italicized emphasis his), "Journeys were prohibited by the law on the sabbath, Exodus 16:29. The law of Moses did not mention the distance to which persons might go on the sabbath; but most of the Jews maintained that it should not be more than two thousand cubits. [...] Jesus teaches them to pray that it might not be on the sabbath, because if they should not go farther than a sabbath-day’s journey, they would not be beyond the reach of danger; and if they did, they would be exposed to the charge of violating the law [whether they were still under the law or not]. It should be added, that it was almost impracticable to travel in Judea on that day, as the gates of the cities were usually closed, Nehemiah 13:19-22."

Therefore, it didn't matter whether they were to keep the Sabbath or not. All those practicing Judaism would've made travel impracticable regardless (whether by charging them for breaking the law or closing the gates), so Christians needed to pray that it wouldn't be on the Sabbath.

As for Isaiah 66:23, it mentions both new moons and sabbaths. It seems to just be a way of saying "from month to month and week to week." However, if Isaiah 66:13 proves that everyone must observe sabbaths just because it mentions sabbaths, then wouldn't it also prove that everyone must observe new moons because it mentions new moons? Be careful with this verse, because making it mean we must observe new moons and sabbaths today would seem to make the verse contradict Colossians 2:16-17, so I hope that isn't what you're saying.

The same Jesus who said the Sabbath was made for man and that He's Lord of the Sabbath also referenced certain Mosaic laws that overrode the practice of the Sabbath on special occasions. He referenced the work the priests did in the temple (Matthew 12:5) and circumcision (John 1:21-24), among other things.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but could Mosaic laws ever supersede a universal law such as murder or adultery? I don’t think so. Yet, Mosaic laws did supersede the Sabbath. Thus, Jesus' defense for doing the things He and His disciples did on the Sabbath assumes the Sabbath is a Mosaic law, not a universal law that could never be superseded.


In conclusion, as said in my OP, doesn't the Bible teach that the Sabbath 1) was given specifically as part of a covenant with Israel, not other nations; 2) was treated as a Mosaic covenant (not a universal law) by Jesus; and 3) is a a shadow of something greater?

Sincerely,
Kilk1

 

[Kilk1]

Why do you designate it "not scripture?" Noachide law comes from scripture.

The link that was given to me from Wikipedia earlier begins (emphasis theirs):

In Judaism, the Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח‎, Sheva Mitzvot B'nei Noach), otherwise referred to as the Noahide Laws or the Noachian Laws (from the Hebrew pronunciation of "Noah"), are a set of imperatives which, according to the Talmud, were given by God as a binding set of universal moral laws for the "sons of Noah" – that is, all of Humanity.​

Notice that it's "according to the Talmud." The Bible itself doesn't have a passage containing an official list called "Seven Laws of Noah." However, if you can independently show each of the seven laws from Scripture, then I obviously have no objections.

 

[Kilk1]

The Sabbath was also a memorial unto their redemption from slavery in Egypt. An event which designated (set them apart) as the Children (seed) of promise to Abraham, from all the other sons of Abraham.
Ex 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
Ex 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
Ex 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
Therefore, the observation of it, is a perpetual covenant for them.

Ex 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
A memorial..of their slavery in Egypt.
Deut 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

This is really no different than the passover memorial.
Jews of the circumcision, were the distinct seed of promise in the covenant made with their father Abraham in Genesis 15. None other seed were recipients of that promised designation.

That seems to be a good point. I will continue to study.

 

[Kilk1]

Evidentially, you include the 10 as part of the mosaic law .... the mosaic law (not the 10) were nailed to the cross

there is indeed law .... else how does God judge justly?

Why some think the Sabbath is exempt .... when Jesus showed by His entire life of keeping it makes no biblical sense.

Romans

"For now we have been delivered from the law." It doesn't mean delivered from obedience; it means the penalty of the law. "Having died to what we were held by, so we should serve in a newness of the Spirit, not the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin?" God forbid! "Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.

What I am saying is .... the law leads us to Christ and THEN Christ leads us back to the law .... and sends the Holy Spirit to help us overcome sin (transgression of the law) .... motive .... the motive is love else all is in vain.

A lot of the bible is "jewish" in nature .... that is mostly written by jews ... so is it just for Jews? Of course not. If one is going to discount the Sabbath due to Jesus being a Jew .... then why not discount everything He taught because He was a Jew?

We are circumcised ... in the heart.


Romans 2:25-29
Holman Christian Standard Bible

Circumcision of the Heart

25 For circumcision benefits you if you observe the law, but if you are a lawbreaker, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if an uncircumcised man keeps the law’s requirements, will his uncircumcision not be counted as circumcision? 27 A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision.

28 For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. 29 On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter. That man’s praise is not from men but from God.

We are Jews and we are circumcised.

There are laws for Christians under the new covenant, but "the law" is something we're no longer under, just as a wife is no longer under her husband. Would we say that a wife isn't under the "penalty" of her dead husband but still must obey all his commands? Or would we say she's released from the law of her (now dead) husband and needs to follow the rules of her new husband? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to be the point that Romans 7:1-4 is about. It's about the law no longer having dominion over us.

Again, if we had to follow everything Jesus did as a Jew, then do we need to be circumcised (Luke 2:21)? Do we need to tell lepers to show themselves to the priests and offer what Moses commanded to offer (Mark 1:44)?

If you're answering that such things are now spiritual, in the heart, what if the same is true of the Sabbath? The main passages I can find to the Sabbath being referenced after Christ's death are in Hebrews 4:9-11 and Colossians 2:16-17. They seem to suggest that "being diligent to enter God's rest 'today'" is the new covenant's spiritual Sabbath, rather than ceasing from work on Saturdays, and that the holy days of the old covenant (festivals, new moons, sabbaths) were merely shadows of things to come, pointing to Christ. I'm open to an alternative interpretation of these passages, though, if they can work with the statements made in these passages.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is really no different than the passover memorial.
Jews of the circumcision, were the distinct seed of promise in the covenant made with their father Abraham in Genesis 15. None other seed were recipients of that promised designation.

You seem to be speaking for God, circumcision and the Passover memorial is not part of the Ten Commandments that was handwritten by God personally and personally spoken by God and placed in the dwelling place of our Creator and Savior, in the ark of the Covenant of the Most Holy of God's Temple, which God has one in heaven as well. Revelations 11:19

The Sabbath was created before sin Genesis 2:1-3 and is the holy day of the Lord thy God according to God. (undisputable) Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13. The Sabbath was before sin, God's original plan that has never changed, which is why Jesus observed the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and the Apostles kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4 as our example and the Sabbath day (not the first day) will continue forever Isaiah 66:23 as promised by God. Exodus 31:16. If you do not want to observe God's holy day now, what makes you think you will want to after Jesus comes, which He gives all free will. Perhaps something to pray about. God bless

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Reply Part 1

The same Jesus who said the Sabbath was made for man also referenced certain Mosaic laws that overrode the practice of the Sabbath on special occasions. He referenced work the priests did in the temple (Matthew 12:5) and circumcision (John 1:21-24), among other things. Could Mosaic laws ever supersede a universal law such as murder or adultery?

You seem to be reading your own interpretations into these scriptures and never does it say that Jesus overrode the practice of the Sabbath and changed the Sabbath. Many of the Pharisee's were creating their own rules about the Sabbath that was not God (Jesus) intent of what the Sabbath is meant to be. Priest could do work on the Sabbath because they are doing God's work, not speaking their words, but words of God. Isaiah 58:13, just like pastors who preach on the Sabbath, not a sin.

Circumcision is not part of the "Universal Law" like murder or adultery, but the Sabbath is. Murder and Adultery came from the same covenant as the Sabbath. God told us He personally wrote a covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28, not nine or eight so why are you trying to change the Word of God, something that was personally written by God, personally spoken by God, placed in the ark of the Covenant and in the Most Holy of God's Temple, that God has also in heaven Revelations 11:19. You teach we need to forget the holy day of the Lord thy God, but God tells us to Remember Exodus 20:8. I choose to believe God, but we do have free will.

In saying the Sabbath was made for man, the contrast isn't that the Sabbath was made for man and not for Jews; it's that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

I believe Jesus when He said the Sabbath was made for man. Mark 2:27. Jesus who is all knowing could have cleared up any misconception about the Sabbath that it was only meant for Jews had He wanted to but clearly tells us the Sabbath was made for man. When was man created? On the sixth day Genesis 1:26 before Jew and was before the very first Sabbath that of course Adam and Eve celebrated the first Sabbath in communion, like we are to now with God. God is our example. God worked six days and on the seventh day rested from all of His work and blessed and sanctified the seventh day. Does God need rest? No! This was for our example, which God commanded us verbatim Exodus 20:8-11 to do the same. God blessed the seventh day Sabbath, not any other day in the entire bible and once God blesses something it cannot be reversed. Numbers 23:20

If the word "man" must mean "both Jews and Gentiles," then do you believe that the Old Testament laws of clean/unclean apply today?

Leviticus 5:2-3 (NKJV, emphasis mine) : "Or if a person [He did not say Jews only] touches any unclean thing, whether it is the carcass of an unclean beast, or the carcass of unclean livestock, or the carcass of unclean creeping things, and he is unaware of it, he also shall be unclean and guilty. Or if he touches human uncleanness—whatever uncleanness with which a man [He did not say Jews only] may be defiled, and he is unaware of it—when he realizes it, then he shall be guilty."

Absolutely the heath laws are still applicable. There is no scripture showing us that we are free to eat foods that God deemed unclean or that are an abomination to God and why would anyone want to, which comes with some warnings.

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Our bodies are a temple for the holy spirit, and we should not defile our bodies by eating anything God deemed an abomination

For the verses speaking of the Sabbath, it's the former, as the verses from my last post show (NKJV, emphasis mine):

• Exodus 16:29: "See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath..."
• Exodus 31:14: "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.'"
• Exodus 31:16: "Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant."
• Etc., etc.

Previously addressed, Iseral in the Bible is also synonymous of God's people, i.e. those who follow God's Word. There are not two gospels taught in scripture, only one. Only one Holy day that God deemed for Himself Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and one holy day God deemed for us. Exodus 20:8. We are never taught we should do the opposite of what God does we are taught to be more like God and to follow in the footsteps of Jesus who kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16-22 His entire life.

Lets look at the 4th commandment and see if we can find the words "for Jews only". Lets also remember that God personally wrote this with His own finger. He personally spoke this with His own voice to a whole nation. He placed His law in the MOST HOLY of the Temple where God dwells on earth and in heaven. It's the only commandment that uses the word "holy" and the one God told us to "remember" so if you are going to forget one, it should not be this one, but Jesus told us to keep the least of the commandments and warnings for those who teach others not to. Matthew 5:19

Exodus 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

That sounds like everyone , so you don't need to convince us why you don't need to keep the Sabbath holy that we are told to Remember. Your argument is with our Most High.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Reply Part 2

However, this covenant between God and Israel was temporary, replaced by the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-13). It's the new covenant that was made for all people, Gentiles included (Acts 15:13-21), but I don't read anywhere in the new covenant of people needing to keep the weekly Sabbath holy.

Lets look at the New Covenant....

Hebrews8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God writes His laws in our hearts, which of course includes the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13. We obey now out of our love John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and they are written in our minds so we remember to do them. James 1:22, Revelation 22:14

It's the same the last question. Under the old covenant, we're told in Exodus 31:14 (NKJV, emphasis mine): "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.'"

Maybe you don't want a sign between you and God, but keeping the Sabbath holy is a sign for God's people and we are sanctified by keeping God's holy day, it is certainly something I want and we are told the remnant church are the ones who keeps the commandments of God, which according to God has Ten Commandments, not nine. Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Exodus 34:28

Amen! And where is Galatians 3:28 written? The new covenant. Before Jesus died and instituted the new covenant (Colossians 2:13-14; Hebrews 9:15-17), Gentiles were without Christ (Ephesians 2:11-12). But now, through the cross, Christ ended all that, bringing us all together under the new covenant (Ephesians 2:13-16).

The new covenant did not end God's laws as God already told us that. Hebrews 8:10. What did end are burnt sacrifices and food offerings -see Hebrews 10 and not the Holy Sabbath day of the Lord thy God that Jesus refers to as being kept after He descended back to heaven Matthew 24:20, still a commandment after Jesus died Luke 56:23 and will be the same day we will worship God for eternity Isaiah 66:23 which is consistent with the entire bible from the very beginning Genesis 2:1-3 throughout both old testament and new testament. Referenced close to 160 times

And again, I don't see the Sabbath being commanded in the new covenant. Jesus practiced the Sabbath on earth during the time of the old covenant (which was in effect before He died, Hebrews 9:15-17). However, if what Jesus did before He died, under old-covenant times (Hebrews 9:15-17), proves we must do them today under the new covenant, then do men of God also need to be circumcised (Luke 2:21)? Do we need to tell lepers to show themselves to the priests and offer what Moses commanded to offer (Mark 1:44)? Etc., etc.

The Sabbath is repeated in the New Testament along with all of the Ten Commandments. Even if it wasn't does God have to repeat Himself for you to obey? Also, please show me in the bible where circumcision is written in the Ten Commandments? So you are proving nothing. Paul tells us very clearly

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Corinthians 7:19 Maybe you should listen to Paul, who also kept the Sabbath commandment.

Old covenant practices are shadows of better things to come. The closest references I can find to the Sabbath are in Hebrews 4:9-11 and Colossians 2:16-17. They seem to suggest that "being diligent to enter God's rest 'today'" is the new covenant's spiritual Sabbath, rather than ceasing from work on Saturdays, and that the holy days of the old covenant (festivals, new moons, sabbaths) were merely shadows of things to come, pointing to Christ. I'm open to an alternative interpretation of these passages, though, if they can work with the statements made in these passages.

Seems you don't understand these scriptures, but honestly it is not surprising. Most Sabbath keepers don't and miss the blessing that God is trying to give us though communion with Him on His holy Sabbath day.

Hebrews 4 is referring to two different rests. The seventh day Sabbath rest and the rest we receive in Christ when we obey. We do not receive the rest in Christ by disobeying the Sabbath commandment. It's God's gift and blessing for those who obey, so you might want to consider observing it so you don't miss out on that blessing.


Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest (the gospel rest), let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; (direct reference to the 4th commandment Exodus 20:8-11, Genesis 2:1-3) 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, (what did they disobey? Here you go:

Ezekial 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths.

So you do not enter into Christ rest by breaking the Sabbath commandment

Back to Hebrews 4

7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

(Today if you hear the truth do not harden your heart, don't wait for another day to obey God.)

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. ( The word Rest hear means sabbatismos in Greek literature always, 100% of the time, refers to seventh day sabbath-keeping;)
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. (Again God is our example)

Isaiah 66:23 mentions both new moons and sabbaths. It seems to just be a way of saying "from month to month and week to week." However, if Isaiah 66:13 proves that everyone must observe sabbaths just because it mentions sabbaths, then wouldn't it also prove that everyone must observe new moons because it mentions new moons? Be careful with this verse, because making it mean we must observe new moons and sabbaths today would seem to make the verse contradict Colossians 2:16-17, so I hope that isn't what you're saying. I say this in sincerity, my friend.

We will not be having feasts or sacrifices in Heaven (see Hebrews 10) and the New Moon means month, so this verse reads from month to month and week to week on the Sabbath all flesh (for those saved) will worship the Lord on the Sabbath day. This is God speaking and His Sabbath day has not changed from the very beginning. This will not be new to God's saints who keep the commandments of God which obviously includes the Sabbath commandment. Isaiah 66:23. We do not have a God of confusion. God did not make holy the Sabbath day for us to keep, Jesus kept throughout His entire life, for it to be changed the moment He dies, but will change back the minute He comes back. This is a doctrine of the devil and was predicted in scriptures Daniel 7:25. God's Sabbath is a blessing and a delight and never ended. Col 2:14-17 is not referring to the seventh day Sabbath. It is referring to an "ordinance" not commandment, that is about food and drink, nothing in the 4th commandment talks about food or drink and is referring to the annual sabbath(s) feasts days that is an ordinance, about food and drink, ended at the cross with Jesus as our perfect sacrifice -Hebrews 10. The weekly Sabbath is not a shadow of anything, it points back to creation "Remember" Exodus 20:8 to Genesis 2:1-3

While murder and adultery are universal laws, they're not such simply because the Ten Commandments mention them, as the Ten Commandments are is Mosaic in nature. That said, most of its commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, all except the Sabbath, as far as I know. Are you saying that the Ten Commandments are binding today? If so, why does Paul call them "the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones," calling it "what is passing away" (2 Corinthians 3:7-11, NKJV)? (Again, most of what was in the Ten Commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, so we should follow them, but the Sabbath isn't reiterated, from what I can tell.)

My Bible has the Ten Commandments as being God's commandments, personally written by God. Sad to see so many people pick and choose the commandments they want to keep when God wrote a covenant of Ten, not nine or eight or seven. Exodus 34:28 but we do have free will.

Also, in Romans 7, Paul says that a woman can't remarry if her husband's still alive. However, if he's dead, she's released from the law of her husband (Romans 7:1-3). In the same way, we've become dead to the law in order to be married to Christ (Romans 7:4). This doesn't mean the law is sin, however; after all, the law we've become dead to taught, "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7). Here's a question: Where in the law we've become dead to is the command, "You shall not covet"?

So are you saying we are free to covet now? Is Paul saying here that the Law of God ended?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

It appears you might be falling into the category of people who only take small bits of Paul's writings to make a case. Many misunderstood Paul in his time, so not much has changed. Paul does not teach two gospels. Never does Paul teach we are not required to keep the commandments of God as he clearly states.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

1 Cor 7:19 What matters IS keeping the commandments of God

There is a lot here, so I hope you can take your time and prayerfully read over the scripture references. It's clear that God never "did away" with His holy Sabbath day and it is still a requirement to keep God's commandments for Christian living. We do not obey to be saved; we obey out of love and obeying God demonstrates true faith. Revelation 14:12

God bless

 

[eleos1954]

There are laws for Christians under the new covenant, but "the law" is something we're no longer under, just as a wife is no longer under her husband. Would we say that a wife isn't under the "penalty" of her dead husband but still must obey all his commands? Or would we say she's released from the law of her (now dead) husband and needs to follow the rules of her new husband? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to be the point that Romans 7:1-4 is about. It's about the law no longer having dominion over us.

Again, if we had to follow everything Jesus did as a Jew, then do we need to be circumcised (Luke 2:21)? Do we need to tell lepers to show themselves to the priests and offer what Moses commanded to offer (Mark 1:44)?

If you're answering that such things are now spiritual, in the heart, what if the same is true of the Sabbath? The main passages I can find to the Sabbath being referenced after Christ's death are in Hebrews 4:9-11 and Colossians 2:16-17. They seem to suggest that "being diligent to enter God's rest 'today'" is the new covenant's spiritual Sabbath, rather than ceasing from work on Saturdays, and that the holy days of the old covenant (festivals, new moons, sabbaths) were merely shadows of things to come, pointing to Christ. I'm open to an alternative interpretation of these passages, though, if they can work with the statements made in these passages.

How can we dismiss they way Jesus lived His life? He kept the Sabbath.

The law is alive and well .... else how can God judge rightly? All will be judged by it.

The difference is ... those in Christ will be declared innocent (even though we are not)

The plan of salvation is revealed through the earthly temple system (that was a copy of the real one that is in heaven)

After Jesus death and resurrection that system was done away with .... because Jesus was the only acceptable sacrifice for all time.

The law being spiritual does not get rid of it ... or make it of non-effect.

The law is written in the heart .... it is how we know what sin is.

Romans 7
English Standard Version

Released from the Law

7 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin

7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

The definition of sin is transgression of the law .... so indeed law is in place.

Sin - Transgression of law was first committed by satan and the 1/3 angels.
Then sin - transgression of the law by Adam and Eve

so ... there is some kind of law in effect before the fall of mankind ... so what are those laws? In the book of Revelation .... in vision it is seen ... the ark of the covenant which contain the tablets of stone (the 4th included) ... in the ark under the mercy seat.

Also, I might add .... there also is a Sabbath that will be kept after God executes His entire plan.

Isaiah 66:22-23

 

[DamianWarS]

Brother, again you contradict God's word with yours.

It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NKJV)

you're injecting an outside context and using this "evening to evening" to define what another context should mean. you are also reversing the order that the text presents it in which is a contradiction to the immediate context in favor of an outside context... not a good practice.

The text says "there was evening, and there was morning—the first day" and the order is "evening/morning". what you have done is superimposed an outside context (Lev 23:32) to justify a reversal of this order to "morning/evening" but it is unwarranted not to mention confusing and as I've mentioned the reversal is counter-gospel. Paul famously says "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" but you're logic has darkness over light and so death has a sting and the grave has the victory.

order is important but you seem to be bent on this "evening to evening" thing that it's driving the way you interpret the text. The text clearly has the order of evening then morning and if we use this to define Lev 23:32 they agree with each other perfectly without a need to switch things around or add things in the text like saying "earlier morning" (where does the text say this?) Genisis evening/Leviticus evening1 is the start of the night. Genisis morning/Leviticus evening2 is the start/end of the day (retrospectively speaking). I haven't done anything to manipulate the text to fit this definition but rather use the text to interpret itself and it agrees perfectly fine wherewith you're perspective requires some reworking of the text and I think is an irresponsible way of approaching it.

What's your motivation to do this by the way? What is the spiritual impact of ordering the day like this?

 

[guevaraj]

What's your motivation to do this by the way? What is the spiritual impact of ordering the day like this?

Brother, the first day in Genesis helps us understand what God is saying in Hebrews 3 and 4. God calls us in Hebrews 3 and 4 to enter His "rest", established on the seventh day of creation.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” (Hebrews 4:1-5 NLT)​

The reason God takes us to the beginning with the word "rest" is because the tradition since Joshua of the Sabbath is incorrect outside of the Promised Land. We have not understood God's definition of a weekday in Genesis since Joshua because of the human tradition in the Promised Land of the Sabbath as a weekday as it was in Eden when the Sabbath actually falls between two days of the week in the Promised Land. There are two announcements in the message of Hebrews 3 and 4 about God's "rest" on the seventh day of creation.

• First, they did not enter His "rest" during the 40 years that they kept the seventh day of the week with Manna from morning to morning near the Promised Land.
• Second, Joshua did not give them God's "rest" even though they entered God's "rest" in the Promised Land from evening to evening.

Those under Joshua did not understand the Sabbath lesson with Manna from morning to morning that God expects us to understand! The difference between the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning and the Sabbath in the Promised Land from evening to evening is that one is the seventh day of the week and the other is not. My church assumes as you that the sentence in Genesis 1:5 starts the first day on an evening, but it only gives the end of the first day as a "night" from evening to morning. The first day ends in a morning and not in an evening like the Sabbath in the Promised Land. The first day started before this sentence, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the "morning".

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was EVENING, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

From evening to morning is what God called "night", we are missing a morning to evening that God called "day".

Notice that God did not say in the next passage the "night" half from evening to morning as He said on the first day.

It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NKJV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge