The Sabbath is the 'Lords Day', not Sunday.

[daq]

We only asked you that question in this instance because Jesus Himself said what he intended. Your word said different from His testimony.

Who is we?
I believe you are misrepresenting what he says and also what I said.

Jesus alluded to Malachi within the context. your post appeared to contradict.

He plainly quoted Exodus 23:20a word for word, not Malachi 3:1, which is worded differently, and it is all right there in the Septuagint for all to see, whether or not you choose to believe him or the authors of the texts.

Your words make it appear as if the text is not what the context brings out when you say the following quote from you without mentioning that Malachi is what Jesus is speaking of in the context.

This statement doesn't make any sense to me seeing what you quoted from my post following your statement. You quoted what I said about the confused commentators which I have now explained several times. Do you need me to start quoting from their commentaries since it appears you do not believe what I said about them? Why be lazy? Do you not understand that I have already researched and studied out just about everything I argue in the forums? I can even post commentators admitting what I have said about the differences in the text and yet still ignoring the implications because of obvious biases. their basic excuse is to say that the statement is not a quote from the LXX but a "free rendering of the Hebrew", which is not true because the text is found word for word in the LXX, but just not in the place where they direct you to look in. They and you apparently cannot tell the difference between ME and THEE. Don't be lazy: if you are a "we" then have one of your associates go look it up.

 

[Gary K]

Actually, he did change the law that defines sin. Matthew 5:28

Or, put more precisely, he clarified it. Same with the Sabbath. Below is an excerpt from one of my favorite teaching sites about the sabbath today:

Should Christians Keep the Sabbath?

Explore the biblical idea of sabbath and rest, and see how Jesus talked about the heart behind God's Sabbath laws, reflecting a God who wants to dwell with his people.

bibleproject.com

How Did Jesus Keep the Sabbath Holy?​

We see the clearest picture of God’s presence on Earth in the life of Jesus. Jesus was God come to live among his people. And Jesus had a lot to say about the Sabbath and the true rest that God intends for humanity.

In his Gospel, Matthew includes a series of connected stories where Jesus is confronted by Israel’s religious leaders and teachers. On one Sabbath day, the leaders object to Jesus’ friends picking corn as they’re walking through a field (Matt. 12:1-2). They also object to Jesus healing a man’s shriveled hand (Matt. 12:9-14
Matthew 12:9-14), saying that Jesus is ignoring the command to keep the Sabbath found in the Hebrew Scriptures (Exod. 20:5; Deut. 5:15

Jesus responds with an argument that clarifies the true definition of the Sabbath, asserting his role as the promised Messiah and pointing to his divinity (Matt. 12:3-8). Jesus understood the heart of the Sabbath—what God’s original command was pointing to. To understand Jesus’ point, we have to look at the context in which Matthew placed these stories.

Sabbath in the New Testament​

Matthew records these Sabbath controversies immediately after quoting Jesus’ words about rest.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

(Matthew 11:28-29)
All this talk of rest right before a passage that deals with Sabbath? This is no mistake. The people have become weary and burdened by the heavy weight of observing the Sabbath, following the letter of the law while missing God’s intent behind the command.

Jesus wants to clarify the meaning of Sabbath for them. The people are in need of rest—to stop hard work (shabbat) and be present with God (nuakh). And Jesus is here to usher in the full promise. He is God’s rest, and the people can come to him and find the true seventh-day rest that God intended.

Jesus reminds the people of God’s original intention for the Sabbath: unity with God, creation, and each other. Jesus teaches that the Sabbath points to him, the one Israel’s prophets promised would come to mercifully restore the rhythm of all creation.

When followers of Jesus observe the Sabbath, we live as if this restoration has already taken place. We take a break from the broken rhythms of hustle and hardship to set aside a time to honor Jesus’ rule, enjoy his presence, and extend rest to the world around us. When we trust God’s invitation to come to him and truly rest, we become places where his presence can dwell.

Observing the Sabbath for Modern Christians​

So what does this practice look like for modern Jesus followers? Does it mean attending a weekly church service, turning off work emails, or volunteering in your community? Does it matter what day you observe the Sabbath? Sabbath could certainly include those activities, but the whole of the biblical story seems to emphasize the purpose of the Sabbath rather than specific rules for observing it.

As followers of Jesus, God does not expect us to live by Israel’s laws. However, the wisdom of these laws remains, and the law of the Sabbath is rich with significance for us today. Sabbath is not a commandment we are bound to; it’s a promise we’re invited to enjoy.

Sabbath rest is an invitation to practice for eternity in God’s presence. It is an act of regular and intentional trust of God’s rule on Earth. We shabbat in order to nuakh—when we stop working, we can truly rest in God’s presence. When we practice this purposeful pause, we make room for God to take up residence in our individual lives and communities. And when we do this, we take part in the new creation story, setting the stage for God to make his dwelling place once again on Earth.

Actually you're taking you're beliefs from the same people who had Jesus crucified. Why?

 

[trophy33]

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

And we have when it was made...

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

He is referring to the Mosaic Law. There is nothing about sabbaths outside of the Jewish environment.

 

[trophy33]

Then I am assuming in your mind, only Jews will be in heaven as the Sabbath does not end...Isa 66:22-23

God identifies the Sabbath as the Sabbath of the Lord, My holy day, not the Sabbath of the Jews.

Prophets were not literal. Paul is clear, no new moons and no sabbaths for Gentiles/Christians:

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
Col 2:16-17

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Prophets were not literal. Paul is clear, no new moons and no sabbaths for Gentiles/Christians:

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
Col 2:16-17

Yes, he was clear, the sabbath(s) in ordinances handwritten by Moses which the context is in verse 14 Co 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

No one ever quotes this because they want to stay in darkness instead of coming to God's Truth.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God, not a suggestion, finger written personally by our Lord and Savior that is holy and blessed and God said "Remember" because He knew everyone would forget. Once God blesses something as He did the Sabbath day, man cannot reverse. Num 23:20

Rom 14:15 is referring to opinions of man, not what day God esteems over all others- the Sabbath is My holy day, the seventh day is the Sabbath Exo 20:10 Isa 58:13 which is why Romans 14 never once mentions the Sabbath. Man adds it there because that's their will, not God's.

 

[reddogs]

He is referring to the Mosaic Law. There is nothing about sabbaths outside of the Jewish environment.

The Sabbath was made for man and what man was there at Creations, it wasnt any of a Jewish environment....

 

[trophy33]

The Sabbath was made for man and what man was there at Creations, it wasnt any of a Jewish environment....

The context is a Jewish dispute over sabbath. "Man" there is not a universal term, the context is not about "should Gentiles keep sabbath?", but "why do your disciples break sabbath?"

Jesus argues "its created for man, not man for sabbath".

 

[HIM]

Prophets were not literal.

So how does one decide whether a prophet is or isn't literal. One's opinion? That makes the whole Bible subject to one's opinion with no absolute truth. How convenient for you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The context is a Jewish dispute over sabbath. "Man" there is not a universal term, the context is not about "should Gentiles keep sabbath?", but "why do your disciples break sabbath?"

The Greek Word Jesus used for man in Mark 2:27:

anthrópos: a man, human, mankind
Original Word: ἄνθρωπος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: anthrópos
Phonetic Spelling: (anth'-ro-pos)
Definition: a man, human, mankind
Usage: a man, one of the human race.

How many times does He have to repeat for one to believe?

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

6:“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

Jesus argues "its created for man, not man for sabbath".

Right, man came first, made on the sixth day Gen 1:26 then the Sabbath Gen 2:1-3 not the other way around.

 

[trophy33]

The Greek Word Jesus used for man in Mark 2:27:

anthrópos: a man, human, mankind
Original Word: ἄνθρωπος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: anthrópos
Phonetic Spelling: (anth'-ro-pos)
Definition: a man, human, mankind
Usage: a man, one of the human race.

How many times does He have to repeat for one to believe?

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

6:“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

Right, man came first, made on the sixth day Gen 1:26 then the Sabbath Gen 2:1-3 not the other way around.

You are ignoring the context. Your interpretation does not fit it at all.

 

[trophy33]

So how does one decide whether a prophet is or isn't literal. One's opinion? That makes the whole Bible subject to one's opinion with no absolute truth. How convenient for you.

Its not us who decide, apostles and Jesus did it for us. At least for the most important parts.

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
Col 2:16-17

 

[HIM]

Prophets were not literal.

So how does one decide whether a prophet is or isn't literal. One's opinion? That makes the whole Bible subject to one's opinion with no absolute truth. How convenient for you.

Its not us who decide, apostles and Jesus did it for us. At least for the most important parts.

Jesus accounted the Creation story and the flood as literal. Yet you have said they are not. It appears this standard that you probably just came up with as an excuse is subject to your opinion also.

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
Col 2:16-17

@SabbathBlessings has addressed these text on this page. You have yet to address the points she made. Why is that?

 

[HIM]

He plainly quoted Exodus 23:20a word for word, not Malachi 3:1, which is worded differently, and it is all right there in the Septuagint for all to see, whether or not you choose to believe him or the authors of the texts.

Yet the context is Malichi per Jesus' saying in Matt 11:14 "and if ye are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was about to come;"

Hence why it was said to you, "Both text are applicable.

Exodus 23:20's messenger clears the way physically.

Micah's 3:1 and 4:5's messenger clears the way Spiritually"

 

[Gary K]

Its not us who decide, apostles and Jesus did it for us. At least for the most important parts.

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
Col 2:16-17

That's correct. Jesus decided this, and you reject both Moses' writings and Jesus' statements as you're an evolutionist.

John 5: 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[daq]

Yet the context is Malichi per Jesus' saying in Matt 11:14 "and if ye are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was about to come;"

Here is why I said to you that the Exodus passage is the source text:

"My Name is in him"

Exodus 23:20-21 KJV
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

H452 אֵלִיָה 'EliYah (ay-lee-yaw') n/p.
אֵלִיָהוּ 'EliYahuw (ay-lee-yaw'-hoo) [prolonged]
Elijah, the name of the famous prophet and of two other Israelites.
[from H410 and H3050]

H410 אֵל 'el
H3050 = יָהּ Yahh
Eliyah = EL+YAHH

There is no excuse for rejecting the Testimony of the Master in favor of your favorite scholars, commentators, and teachers of men who also deny his words in this passage, especially when you have been shown their error here in this discussion.

Hence why it was said to you, "Both text are applicable.

Hence why it was said to you that the actual text which the Master actually quotes is the source text.

Exodus 23:20's messenger clears the way physically.

And how exactly does Yohanne the Immerser do that since the Master quotes from Exodus 23:20?

Micah's 3:1 and 4:5's messenger clears the way Spiritually"

Micah 3:1 and 4:5 again? Are you even reading my replies to your posts?
What do Micah 3:1 and 4:5 have to do with this discussion?

Micah 3:1 KJV
1 And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment?

Micah 4:5 KJV
5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

This is the discussion and your catastrophic error:

Exodus 23:20 Brenton Septuagint
20 And, behold, I send my angel before thy face, that he may keep thee in the way, that he may bring thee into the land which I have prepared for thee.

Exodus 23:20 KJV
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

Malachi 3:1 Brenton Septuagint
1 Behold, I send forth my messenger, and he shall survey the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come into his temple, even the angel of the covenant, whom ye take pleasure in: behold, he is coming, saith the Lord Almighty.

Malachi 3:1 KJV
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Can you not see the difference between "me" and "thee" in these texts?
And what do we find in the quote from the Master? It is not Malachi 3:1.

Matthew 11:10 KJV
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

IT IS WRITTEN. That means your beloved scholars and commentators are extremely foolish to say that the quote is a loose or "free rendering" of the Hebrew where the text has been supposedly altered from "Me" to "thee" to suit their biases. It is a direct word for word quote, taken straight from the text of Exodus 23:20a in the LXX-Septuagint, just as I have said from the start. The commentators and scholars have deceived you, just as I also already tried to warn about, and you tried to make me look like the unbeliever for doing so while it is you who does not believe the Testimony of the Meshiah. Everything is a test to see if we will walk in the Testimony or not: those who choose to believe teachers of men instead are led astray by teachers of men, and for those not believing the Testimony of the Son, the wrath of Elohim abides upon them, just as Yohanne-Eliyah has warned in John 3:36.

 

[trophy33]

@SabbathBlessings has addressed these text on this page. You have yet to address the points she made. Why is that?

Its called weekend. Whenever sabbath is discussed, three, four, five or even more proponents of sabbath react with all the stuff they use to say again and again. So I answer only what I see at the top of the alerts, because I am not interested in having 5 simultaneous conversations about this practically dead topic - church already decided, since the times of the apostles.

 

[trophy33]

That's correct. Jesus decided this, and you reject both Moses' writings and Jesus' statements as you're an evolutionist.

John 5: 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Yes, yes, I know that the Seventh Day Adventists are also believing that the universe is 6,000 years old, in soul sleep etc. I do not buy any of that.

 

[Gary K]

Yes, yes, I know that the Seventh Day Adventists are also believing that the universe is 6,000 years old, in soul sleep etc. I do not buy any of that.

So how can you actually believe in Jesus? Jesus Himself says it's impossible. The Pharisees claimed they were Moses' disciples yet murdered Jesus. It shows how self deceived humans can become.

 

[trophy33]

So how can you actually believe in Jesus? Jesus Himself says it's impossible. The Pharisees claimed they were Moses' disciples yet murdered Jesus. It shows how self deceived humans can become.

Not surprisingly, I do not agree with your interpretation of those texts.

 

[Gary K]

Not surprisingly, I do not agree with your interpretation of those texts.

So give me your "interpretation" of John 5: 44-47.