The Sabbath is the 'Lords Day', not Sunday.

[HIM]

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
NIV

Πρὸ τοῦ δὲ ἐλθεῖν τὴν πίστιν ὑπὸ νόμον ἐφρουρούμεθα συγκλειόμενοι εἰς τὴν μέλλουσαν πίστιν ἀποκαλυφθῆναι,
ὥστε ὁ νόμος παιδαγωγὸς ἡμῶν γέγονεν εἰς Χριστόν, ἵνα ἐκ πίστεως δικαιωθῶμεν·
ἐλθούσης δὲ τῆς πίστεως οὐκέτι ὑπὸ παιδαγωγόν ἐσμεν.
NA 28

εἰς is not until

 

[daq]

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
NIV

Πρὸ τοῦ δὲ ἐλθεῖν τὴν πίστιν ὑπὸ νόμον ἐφρουρούμεθα συγκλειόμενοι εἰς τὴν μέλλουσαν πίστιν ἀποκαλυφθῆναι,
ὥστε ὁ νόμος παιδαγωγὸς ἡμῶν γέγονεν εἰς Χριστόν, ἵνα ἐκ πίστεως δικαιωθῶμεν·
ἐλθούσης δὲ τῆς πίστεως οὐκέτι ὑπὸ παιδαγωγόν ἐσμεν.
NA 28

That's a liberal (loose) reading of the Greek text and the NIV is supporting a modern antinomian dogma. You didn't highlight it but gegonen is in the text and the NIV renders it as was, just as the KJV. It is the fourth word in the second sentence in your NIV rendering, "So the law was our guardian...", and what you placed in bold red in the same line, until, is their rendering of eis, which you also placed in bold red, but that is merely their way of avoiding the need to insert the words that are inserted in italics in the KJV and ASV, (to bring us).

Moreover you've now ventured far beyond what is stated about Yohanne the Immerser in Matthew 11, which we started with, (your point which I initially responded to).

Exodus 23:20 LXX
20 And behold, I send My Messenger before your face, that he may keep you in the way, that he may bring you into the land which I have prepared for you.

Matthew 11:9-15 ASV
9 But wherefore went ye out? to see a prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.
10 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, [Exo 20:23a] Who shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and men of violence take it by force.
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And if ye are willing to receive it, this is Elijah, that is to come.
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 17:1-13 ASV
1 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart:
2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light.
3 And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.
4 And Peter answered, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, I will make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.
5 While he was yet speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one, save Jesus only.
9 And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen from the dead.
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11 And he answered and said, Elijah indeed cometh, and shall restore all things:
12 but I say unto you, that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they would. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them.
13 Then understood the disciples that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Now therefore, Eliyah shall come, and shall restore all things, if you will receive it. And who is it that led Mosheh into the land? Do you perceive that Mosheh is suddenly in the land in the transfiguration event? Who led him into the promised land? Do you perceive that this is a fulfillment of what was promised to Mosheh in Exodus 23:20? The Mark companion passage is even more explicit about Eliyah, saying that he is coming first.

Mark 9:11-13 ASV
11 And they asked him, saying, How is it that the scribes say that Elijah must first come?
12 And he said unto them, Elijah indeed cometh first, and restoreth all things: and how is it written of the Son of man, that he should suffer many things and be set at nought?
13 But I say unto you, that Elijah is come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they would, even as it is written of him.

Eliyah indeed comes first: and Eliyah is the Spirit of the Prophets, and the Prophets expound the Torah, and Yohanne the Immerser is he who immerses you in water, just as he says, and the water is the water of the Word, and by these things you are brought into the land, unto the Master, the Son of Elohim, and he it is who immerses you in Spirit Holy and Fire. And unless one is born of both the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of Elohim, (John 3:5). The water of immersion is therefore the washing of water in the Word, (Eph 5:26), and the water of the Word is the Torah, Prophets, and Writings, and the Spirit is the Testimony of the Meshiah, which is Spirit, (John 6:63).

Thus, when Paul says the following, in the same passage you have quoted:

Galatians 4:1-2 ASV
1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all;
2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father.

Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

He is concluding the same discourse from the previous chapter which you have quoted from, which is still the same passage, regardless of the man-made chapter break. Who therefore are the guardians and stewards, or tutors and governors of Gal 4:2, and also the schoolmaster or child-leader, (paidagogos), from the Gal 3:24 statement you also quoted? We know from the Gal 3:24 statement that the schoolmaster is the Torah, and thus, the tutors and governors of Gal 4:2 are the Prophets and the Writings: and these you are under until the time appointed of the Father, according to Paul in this passage, for as long as you are a babe or child in Meshiah and until the time appointed of the Father when you become a tried, true, tested son. No father puts his untested and inexperienced babe or child in charge of all his goods.

 

[HIM]

That just means the Torah was not fully expounded until the Testimony of the Meshiah which immediately follows the ministry of the Immerser. It's proven in the same exact passage from which you quote, wherein the Meshiah states the following:

Matthew 11:10 N/A-W/H
10 ουτος εστιν περι ου γεγραπται ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου ος κατασκευασει την οδον σου εμπροσθεν σου10 ουτος εστιν περι ου γεγραπται ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου ος κατασκευασει την οδον σου εμπροσθεν σου

Which is an exact, verbatim, word for word quote from the LXX-Septuagint as follows:

Exodus 23:20 OG LXX
20 και ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου ινα φυλαξη σε εν τη οδω οπως εισαγαγη σε εις την γην ην ητοιμασα σοι20 και ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου ινα φυλαξη σε εν τη οδω οπως εισαγαγη σε εις την γην ην ητοιμασα σοι

Again, that's word for word:

Matthew 11:10 ~ ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου
Exodus 23:20a ~ ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου

Simply read those passages in your preferred English translation, (you can read the LXX in the Brenton English translation but the KJV from the Hebrew text says essentially the same), and read them in their contexts with comprehension, and believe what the Master says and teaches about it: and do not listen to confounded commentators who will tell you that this is a confounded quote from Malachi 3:1 because it is not: it is word for word straight from the passage quoted above, Exodus 23:20a.

It would be ridiculous to say that the Torah was not fully expounded until the advent of the Meshiah but then it was abolished as soon as it was fully expounded by the Meshiah.

Was Jesus wrong?

Matt 11:14 and if ye are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was about to come;

Both text are applicable.

Exodus 23:20's messenger cleared the way physically.

Micah's 3:1 and 4:5's messenger clears the way Spiritually

 

[trophy33]

εἰς is not until

It is, when the context is about time.

"of the (temporal) limit to which; unto, i. e. even to, until"

Strong's Greek: 1519. εἰς (eis) -- into, to, towards, for, in order to

For example:
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord..."
Τοῦτο γὰρ ὑμῖν λέγομεν ἐν λόγῳ Κυρίου, ὅτι ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν παρουσίαν τοῦ Κυρίου...
1Thess 4:15

 

[trophy33]

That's a liberal (loose) reading of the Greek text and the NIV is supporting a modern antinomian dogma.

I also provided the NA 28 Greek so that you can see its not a loose reading.

However, how many English translations do you have a problem with? Its like a moving target with you. What about ESV, then:

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
ESV

If you reject the most prominent/used English translations, I do not think its beneficial enough to continue, we would fall into various personal speculations without end.

 

[daq]

Was Jesus wrong?

If I thought he was wrong then why would I believe anything else he says?
And why would I be here arguing in favor of his Testimony?

And why do you keep asking me these kinds of questions when I have never given any reason whatsoever for anyone to doubt my faith in Meshiah and his all-important holy Testimony?

Matt 11:14 and if ye are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was about to come;

Both text are applicable.

Exodus 23:20's messenger cleared the way physically.

Micah's 3:1 and 4:5's messenger clears the way Spiritually

Do you mean Malachi 3:1?

Where did I say other texts were not applicable? See also Isaiah 40:3 which is also related. What I said was that the actual quote goes directly to the source text which is Exodus 23:20. You might want to look up the other synoptic companion passages because they all quote Exodus 23:20a.

Was the Master wrong to quote Exodus 23:20a according to you now?
Or did all three synoptics get it wrong in your opinion?

That's what many of the commentators try to suggest, (you can read some of their confusion at biblehub), apparently because they dare not fathom the massive impact this scripture fact would have on their erroneous antinomian doctrines. Just because I believe the Testimony of the Master over your doctrines and the doctrines of antinominan commentators doesn't make me an unbeliever.

 

[daq]

I also provided the NA 28 Greek so that you can see its not a loose reading.

It is a loose reading and that is typically how thought for thought translations are because they are not as concerned about a literal word for word rendering but rather trying to relate what the translator or translator team believes the text actually means. It is rendering thoughts rather than attempting a word for word literalistic reading.

However, how many English translations do you have a problem with?

Lol, every one I have ever looked at.

Its like a moving target with you. What about ESV, then:

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
ESV

If you reject the most prominent/used English translations, I do not think its beneficial enough to continue, we would fall into various personal speculations without end.

What was wrong with the ASV? You quoted the KJV, and I quoted the ASV, and now it is you who is making this into target practice. I understand what the text says and I have already presented it. You do not wish to accept that: so I guess you may be correct in that it may not be beneficial for you to continue.

 

[HIM]

It is, when the context is about time.

"of the (temporal) limit to which; unto, i. e. even to, until"

Strong's Greek: 1519. εἰς (eis) -- into, to, towards, for, in order to

For example:
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord..."
Τοῦτο γὰρ ὑμῖν λέγομεν ἐν λόγῳ Κυρίου, ὅτι ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν παρουσίαν τοῦ Κυρίου...
1Thess 4:15

It is, when the context is about time.

"of the (temporal) limit to which; unto, i. e. even to, until"

Strong's Greek: 1519. εἰς (eis) -- into, to, towards, for, in order to

For example:
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord..."
Τοῦτο γὰρ ὑμῖν λέγομεν ἐν λόγῳ Κυρίου, ὅτι ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν παρουσίαν τοῦ Κυρίου...
1Thess 4:15

In Galatians it is not temporal it is positional. A state of being. We will just have to agree to disagree

 

[HIM]

If I thought he was wrong then why would I believe anything else he says?
And why would I be here arguing in favor of his Testimony?

And why do you keep asking me these kinds of questions when I have never given any reason whatsoever for anyone to doubt my faith in Meshiah and his all-important holy Testimony?

We only asked you that question in this instance because Jesus Himself said what he intended. Your word said different from His testimony.

Do you mean Malachi 3:1?

Where did I say other texts were not applicable? See also Isaiah 40:3 which is also related. What I said was that the actual quote goes directly to the source text which is Exodus 23:20. You might want to look up the other synoptic companion passages because they all quote Exodus 23:20a.

Was the Master wrong to quote Exodus 23:20a according to you now?
Or did all three synoptics get it wrong in your opinion?

That's what many of the commentators try to suggest, (you can read some of their confusion at biblehub), apparently because they dare not fathom the massive impact this scripture fact would have on their erroneous antinomian doctrines. Just because I believe the Testimony of the Master over your doctrines and the doctrines of antinominan commentators doesn't make me an unbeliever.

Jesus alluded to Malachi within the context. your post appeared to contradict. Your words make it appear as if the text is not what the context brings out when you say the following quote from you without mentioning that Malachi is what Jesus is speaking of in the context.

and believe what the Master says and teaches about it: and do not listen to confounded commentators who will tell you that this is a confounded quote from Malachi 3:1

 

[HIM]

Lol, every one I have ever looked at.

Yep and it gets worse the more we look.

 

[trophy33]

What was wrong with the ASV?

The most used English Bibles are NIV, KJV, ESV.

Anyway, I am fine with ASV:

But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor.
ASV

Still the same point - Before the faith came, pople were under the law. The law was/is, whatever you like, a tutor and we are no longer under a tutor. I.e. we are no longer under the law.

The only difference is a weird usage of "is become" which I am not sure how to understand, because nobody speaks like that.

 

[trophy33]

In Galatians it is not temporal it is positional. A state of being. We will just have to agree to disagree

If you want to disagree with the most used translations... Anyway, it changes nothing about the point of the text - we are no longer under the law.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The Lord claims the sabbath as His very own. It is a day, therefore it is literally, the Lord's day.

Did anyone keep the Sabbath before Moses?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Did anyone keep the Sabbath before Moses?

God did at Creation week and we are made in His image to follow Him.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Man was made on the 6th day Gen 1:26 right before the very first Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3 that God hallowed and was made for man. I do not believe Adam and Eve rebelled against God on the first day they were created!

 

[I's2C]

Sabbath=is to rest and as Christians we put our rest with JESUS every day not any single day.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you want to disagree with the most used translations... Anyway, it changes nothing about the point of the text - we are no longer under the law.

So once we come to Jesus through the law, we can now worship other gods, vain His holy name, break His holy Sabbath day, covet, steal and commit murder. Is this how you are interpreting this verse? How does your interpretation compare to what Jesus teaches? Mat 5:19-30, Mat 15:3-9 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 7:21-23

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sabbath=is to rest and as Christians we put our rest with JESUS every day not any single day.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

In Christ rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments Isa 48:18, the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56

We enter His rest through faith. Those who enter also cease from their works as God did from His, on the seventh day. Hebrews 4:4 Hebrews 4:10 and why the Sabbath-rest remains for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9NIV

 

[trophy33]

So once we come to Jesus through the law, we can now worship other gods, vain His holy name, break His holy Sabbath day, covet, steal and commit murder. Is this how you are interpreting this verse? How does your interpretation compare to what Jesus teaches? Mat 5:19-30, Mat 15:3-9 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 7:21-23

And here we go again.

We do not need the Mosaic law to know stealing etc is wrong. There is no Sabbath outside the Mosaic Law, though. It was a specific Jewish thing.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

God did at Creation week and we are made in His image to follow Him.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Man was made on the 6th day Gen 1:26 right before the very first Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3 that God hallowed and was made for man. I do not believe Adam and Eve rebelled against God on the first day they were created!

Unfortunately, you did not answer my question.

 

[Lukaris]

Apparently there is a stage of development of the early Church that has not been well preserved. While I believe testimony was recorded, much of it must have been lost. Personally I believe if a person chooses to keep the Sabbath, it can be done in Christian faith.

What little we do know though is that the early Christians eventually believed the Lord’s Day is His resurrection in which He was worshipped ( Matthew 28:9) the Day in Revelation 1:10. St. Paul’s instruction to preach to the Gentiles in Acts 22:17-21 seems to be a major break from Judaism.

The earliest surviving documents indicate the Lord’s Day as the Sunday worship. For ex. the letter of St. Ignatius to the church of Magnesia ( about 100 AD as most scholars agree).



CHAPTER 9
9:1 If then those who had walked in ancient
practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer
observing sabbaths but fashioning their lives after
the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through
Him and through His death which some men deny -- a
mystery whereby we attained unto belief, and for this
cause we endure patiently, that we may be found
disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher --
9:2 if this be so, how shall we be able to live
apart from Him? seeing that even the prophets, being
His disciples, were expecting Him as their teacher
through the Spirit. And for this cause He whom they
rightly awaited, when He came, raised them from the
dead.

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Magnesians (Lightfoot translation)

Ignatius of Antioch to the Magnesians (Lightfoot translation). On Early Christian Writings.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org