• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

THE SABBATH IS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT - WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ABOLISHED?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Jun 25, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Paul's authority does not trump the Most High God's authority and Word - who is the Redeemer or the Literal Living Word of God.

    Paul has no authority compared to them; their Word is primary. If you want to follow Paul before the Most High God, then that is your prerogative. But, if Paul contradicts the Most High God, then he is a liar.
     
  2. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    They aren't weird; you do most of them already by virtue of accepted "morality" that we think comes from our own cultural vacuum.

    Yes: 613 laws, as opposed to 1000s of "weird laws" for the average nation for which scores of new laws are added weekly. That is all God asks of us. Is that too much to ask?

    Obedience doesn't justify salvation, but God does expect that we exhibit our faith through our works (fruits.) Nothing spiritually separates an atheist from a disobedient Christian except delusion.
     
  3. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    What do you obey? GOD said all of this:
    • GOD told Noah that he could eat anything that moved.
    • GOD told Israel that they could only eat certain foods
    • Paul said that we can eat anything (all foods are clean)
     
  4. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

    +481
    Uruguay
    Christian
    Single
    I trust God and Jesus too and what you are saying feels completely weird to me. I have had several spiritual experiences with him and that confirms me (without trying to sound like i am an authority or anything like that) that i am at least somewhere in the correct path.
    At least you agree that the door to heaven is Jesus not the law correct?
     
  5. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I already showed you where Paul contradicts the law. If you reject Paul's authority, then you are not a follower of the Christian faith.
     
  6. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    God told Noah to eat anything that moved because He knew Noah had the wherewithal to understand that meant clean food that moved. In other words, Noah had the sense not to eat a cockroach, or vulture because he knew the Word of God enough to know what the Most High God meant.

    God told Israel they could only eat certain foods, but God also divorced Israel because even they were making excuses for their disobedience, and desecrating His statutes with the added audacity of performing vain oblations to "clean". With that said, God opened "Israel" up to whoever follows His commandments. The Redeemer said that whoever follows the commandments of His is His brother, mother, etc. So, you know who Israel is to God; His Word told you explicitly.

    Paul has no authority over the Most High God. At all. Paul cannot save you from Hell.
     
  7. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Then, I am going to stop talking about it, because it is up to you to ascertain the truth and I don't want to be a stumbling block. There is only one truth, and while it isn't elusive, there is a lot of misinformation and distractions to veil the brightness of it. I am still all ears if you find a place where the Most High God allows us to break His commandments, or explicitly shows some of us are under different conditions for obedience.

    Yes. However, the two are extremely closely related - two sides of the same coin. Faith (in the Redeemer) without works (obedience; outward show of fruits) is dead.
     
  8. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    That's not the way it works. GOD said what he said. You just can't make up stuff to make the word say what you want it to.
     
  9. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Paul was GOD's apostle. If you do not follow his words, then you are not following the Christian faith.
     
  10. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    I am not a follower of your denomination, perhaps. I thought it was requisite that one does NOT put man before God. Trusting Paul's authority over the Most High God, or the Word of God is not what I am doing. And, as I said, I am fine with whatever classification one wants to identify me with.
     
  11. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    I am not making anything up.

    Why else would the Most High God have to put His law in writing? Because they were too ignorant to believe and trust the Law He put on their hearts in the first place. They were so spiritually dumb that they needed prophets and written law to teach them right from wrong.

    And, they still made excuses for their disobedience.
     
  12. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    The Christian church is built upon the foundation of the apostles. If you reject what they say, then you reject GOD.
     
  13. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Paul has no authority over the Most High God. It should be considered blasphemous in the Christian faith you would actually continue this.
     
  14. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    I hope you find what you are looking for.
     
  15. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

    +481
    Uruguay
    Christian
    Single
    But you keep all the law? and if you don't you think Jesus is accusing you of infidelity?
     
  16. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

    720
    +428
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    None of these people who exalt the law above the words of Jesus and his apostles keep it. They are just puffed up and know nothing.

    Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain talk desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor what they affirm. 1 Timothy 1:5-7
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hi jalvarez4Jesus,

    Nice to meet you and thanks for your contribution. Some comments for you below for your consideration.

    Some questions in relation to Ephesians 2:15 for your consideration.

    * What does "the flesh" mean? * What does it mean to abolish in his flesh the enmity?
    * What do you think the enmity is? * What does it mean law contained in "ORDINANCES"?
    * What is the context of v15? (see v11)

    If you interpret the above scripture to mean that God's 10 Commandments is abolished then how do you reconcile Paul's writing elsewhere? For example...

    ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Then you will need to reconcile all these scriptures from most of the NEW TESTAMENT from the words of Jesus and all the Apostles (linked CLICK ME).

    Ephesians 2 is talking about the Blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin making reconciliation to us with God as a gift through faith. The laws contained in "ORDINACES" v15 are the sin offerings that are no longer required because of Christs perfect sacrifice.

    Scripture support here CLICK ME.

    As can be seen above and in the linked posts there is a lot of scripture here that disagrees with your interpretation of the scriptures here. Something for you to pray and think about as your belief here needs to reconcile a lot of scripture that disagrees with you.

    Actually no!
    The "Sabbath" Hebrew H7676 שַׁבָּת shabbath (shab-bawth') n-e. 1. intermission, a period of temporary rest. 2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest. [intensive from H7673] KJV: (+ every) sabbath.

    The "Sabbath" Greek G4521 σάββατον sabbaton (saɓ'-ɓa-ton) n. 1. the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath). 2. a day of weekly repose from secular avocations. 3. the observance or institution itself. 4. (by extension) a week, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths.
    5. likewise the plural in all the above applications. [of Hebrew origin (H7676)] KJV: sabbath (day), week Root(s): H7676

    The commandment is more specific...

    EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER, the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
    [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

    Origin...

    GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and all the host of them. [2], And on the SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK which he had made; and HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
    [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND SANCTIFIED IT: BECAUSE HE HAD RESTED FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH GOD HAD CREATED AND MADE.

    So nope! The "Sabbath" means the seventh day of the week being a day of rest.

    continued...
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Exodus 12:16 is talking about the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened bread as a ordinance v14. It is not a commandment to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Please read Exodus 12. This is further outlined in Leviticus 23 and can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. So nope this is not talking about Sunday versus Sabbath observance.

    see above

    "DITTO"

    See above. What is the law of Moses that had to be fulfilled? The MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT is different to God's LAW (10 Commandments)

    Scripture support here click me..

    Can you see that not one scripture that you have provided so far says that God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? The disciples and apostles met on many days of the week. This is not a commandment to abolish God's 4th commandment and keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    see above..

    Well that is not true...

    Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22). The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

    What were a shadow of things to come God's 10 Commandments or the laws in "ORDINANCES" from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT? Your mixing up the special ceremonial "Sabbath" connected to the annual Jewish feast days from Leviticus 16 with God's 4th Commandment.

    Scritpures support here (linked CLICK ME).

    Well that is not true. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:8-11). If we KNOWINGLY break any one of them we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4). There is not a single scripture in all the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT that says God's 4th Commandment is now abolished and we a now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a tradtion and teaching of men that breaks the commandments of God.

    See above...

    No you didn't see above...

    See above...

    Well that is not true. There is no scripture that says that Sunday is the "Lord's Day". Is there any scritpures that says what day is the "Lord's Day"?

    MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF SABBATH DAY.

    Yep pretty clear which day is the "Lord's Day" it is not Sunday.

    See above...

    See above...

    See above...

    See above...

    There is no such thing as a Jewish Sabbath...

    MARK 2:27 [27], And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN [G444, Human beings] and not man for the sabbath.

    ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12). Gentiles are now grafted in (Romans 11:16-27)

    NEED MORE SCRIPTURE? CLICK ME.

    If you agree that there is no scripture that says that God's 4th commandment is abolished and there is no commandment that says we are to now keep Sunday as a Holy day and sin is knowingly breaking any of God's 10 Commandments how will you explain breaking God's 4th Commandment come judgment day?

    See above...

    "DITTO"

    "DITTO"

    "DITTO"

    "DITTO"

    "DITTO"

    Please re-read what you have written here and see if it makes any sense. Can you LOVE God while knowlingly breaking any of God's 10 Commandments? LOVE is the fulfilling means doing. Breaking any of God's commandments is SIN and the wages of continuing in sin is death. On these two great commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets. (Matthew 22:26-40; Romans 6:23; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12, Romans 13:8-10)

    ................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    [Note]: Can you see you have not provided one scripture that says God's 4th commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

    Who should we believe the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God?
    .
     
  19. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,492
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    I try to keep all of the Law. I fall short.

    I don't stop trying, and as I have been enduring with my Father He has also refined me (I believe.) Things I thought were right(eous) I find almost reprehensible. Or, I now understand why He says, for example, not to wear mixed woolens (by intelligence of experience.)

    To be like Christ, I need to be exactly like Him - perfect. The process is called sanctification; we won't get a perfect body until we get a real body.
     
  20. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Well that has no truth in it whatsoever. Hebrews 4:3 makes it very clear that the context of v9 is the SEVENTH DAY Sabbath referenced to GENESIS 2:1-3 which is the origin of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH. Just expressing your opinion over God's WORD does not void the Word of God.

    HEBREWS 4:3-4 [3] For we who have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, they shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day in this way, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

    links back to the origin of the Sabbath and the 4th commandment...

    GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    links to...

    EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEBER [GENESIS 2:1-3] the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> [Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day] [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
    [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

    HEBREWS 4:9 [9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

    GREEK 4520. σαββατισμός sabbatismŏs, sab-bat-is-mos´; from a der. of 4521; a “sabbatism” Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 64). Bellingham. The GREEK Word used here is Gr. "sabbatismos", a Sabbath rest, a rest from all work (Heb. 4:9; R.V., “sabbath”), a rest like that of God when he had finished the work of creation. Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.

    INTERLINEAR GREEK
    So then [αρα] there remains [απολειπεται] a sabbath rest [σαββατισμος] for the [τω]
    people [λαω] - [του] of God [θεου]

    Sorry συνείδησις, God's Word disagrees with you. We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

    Hope this helps.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...