Now how would I be playing both sides? Your post makes no sense.No, Remember your argument about Mat 5:17-18 about jots and titles? Why do you play both sides of the fence? You can't play for the opposition and remain on the team. MK 6:24
It's a different covenant.
Just avoidance of the question by responding to only part of discussed passage.Nope. No he did not. ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.
That's why you post Rev 22:14LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God
You've been asked before by me if you esteem or rerguard any day. You simply by-passed the question as I suspect you will again.There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.
No way. Jews have a kosher house, Gentiles don't. That's why Jews didn't eat with gentiles. We eat pork they don't. That has nothing to do with what is eaten on certain days.Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15
[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
If you came top my house I wouldn't try to serve you pork. Since you're not coming to my house I can't offend you by eating pork out of your presence. If you say no, you'd be trying to run my household imprisoning me to your religion.[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on
Does this include you? You dodged the question before.[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:
Yes you do and by Scripture (Rev 22:14). It serves multiple purposes for you -Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Big deal. We're not Jews and even a Jewish believer isn't obligated to the law Rom 7:6. Paul says "we" which includes himself a natural blood line Jew.The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]
Doesn't need to be when esteemed day is mentioned.[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
ditto[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
ditto[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
So context includes the sabbath by your admission. The sabbath is the 4th of the famous 10.[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments
You'll try anything.[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
You're offensive trying to tell me what to do even in my own home eating what I want because it offends you. How? since you're not present.[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:
So don't do it.Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
You don't believe this. This is achieved by simply by throwing out what you don't like.[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:
What happened to verse 6? "But we are now delivered from the law..."Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
So, what's your point?[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
Paul no where says to keep the law much less the sabbath. In fact he even says to throw them (the law) out.[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.
They aren't part of the new covenant.[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).
So what.[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
So what.[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
So what. Do you know this first hand for all Sunday meeting Christians? Proof, please.[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".
So what.[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
Simply not true as indicated by the conversation in this thread.[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances
Are you really trying to get us to toss the Scripture?Conclusion: Nothing about God's 4th commandment in there at all. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others.
Hope this helps.
Just avoidance of the question by responding to only part of discussed passage.That's why you post Rev 22:14You've been asked before by me if you esteem or rerguard any day. You simply by-passed the question as I suspect you will again.No way. Jews have a kosher house, Gentiles don't. That's why Jews didn't eat with gentiles. We eat pork they don't. That has nothing to do with what is eaten on certain days.If you came top my house I wouldn't try to serve you pork. Since you're not coming to my house I can't offend you by eating pork out of your presence. If you say no, you'd be trying to run my household imprisoning me to your religion. Does this include you? You dodged the question before.Yes you do and by Scripture (Rev 22:14). It serves multiple purposes for you -
Big deal. We're not Jews and even a Jewish believer isn't obligated to the law Rom 7:6. Paul says "we" which includes himself a natural blood line Jew.Doesn't need to be when esteemed day is mentioned.dittodittoSo context includes the sabbath by your admission. The sabbath is the 4th of the famous 10.You'll try anything.You're offensive trying to tell me what to do even in my own home eating what I want because it offends you. How? since you're not present.So don't do it.You don't believe this. This is achieved by simply by throwing out what you don't like.What happened to verse 6? "But we are now delivered from the law..."So, what's your point?
- gloating
- condemnation
- spreading fear
- attempted manipulation
Paul no where says to keep the law much less the sabbath. In fact he even says to throw them (the law) out.They aren't part of the new covenant.So what.So what.So what. Do you know this first hand for all Sunday meeting Christians? Proof, please.So what.Simply not true as indicated by the conversation in this thread.Are you really trying to get us to toss the Scripture?
What is quite amazing is that you did not address anything in the post you are quoting from. You simply ignored the scriptures and provided your own words.
Where does it say in ROMANS 14 that it is talking about God's 4th commandement?
Silly and worthless games that don't begin to mess with my mind.Wait a minute it doesn't that is why you cannot provide the scriptures. By trying to claim ROMANS 14 is talking about the SABBATH when the SABBATH is not even mentioned is saying the scriptures are saying things they are not saying.
It doesn't matter what God esteems in those verses. It doesn't matter why or what a man esteems in those verses. It says some do and some don't.ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems.
So you must be saying esteeming Saturday must be and abomination to God. Amazing because that's exactly what the 4th commandments says to do.The things that men esteem are an abomination to God.
That is what you do especially when referencing Rev 14:12 or/and 22:14.LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God
Agreed. You keep the covenant given to Israel in the desert and I will keep the covenant Jeremiah promised and Jesus ratified.Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.
Paul stated that we can still observe sat, or Sun, or any day of the Week unto the lord now.Each should be convinced in his own mind about what?
Anything of law or command in ink or stone.Your repeating yourself here brother. What is the commandment being spoken of here?
Are you trying to tell me I need to copy your verses or something else? Isn't that what I do by quoting your post?What is quite amazing is that you did not address anything in the post you are quoting from. You simply ignored the scriptures and provided your own words.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
What day do you esteem? What day do you regard? You're trying to tell me to set aside the 7th day for some reason. I don't regard it. You do regard it. Regard as a verb is defined as - consider or think of (someone or something) in a specified way. You do this with Saturday. For me it's just another day. Regard as a noun is defined as - attention to or concern for something. You have a concern for Saturday I don't. Yes I understand your claim the sabbath isn't mentioned. However a day you regard and esteem is. That just happens to be the same day - Saturday.Silly and worthless games that don't begin to mess with my mind.It doesn't matter what God esteems in those verses. It doesn't matter why or what a man esteems in those verses. It says some do and some don't. Esteem defined as a verb is - respect and admire. Esteem defined as a noun is - respect and admiration. So I guess that you neither esteem nor regard Saturday because you refuse to admit that as I asked of you. If you want to c&p the Greek, be my guest. So you must be saying esteeming Saturday must be and abomination to God. Amazing because that's exactly what the 4th commandments says to do.That is what you do especially when referencing Rev 14:12 or/and 22:14.Agreed. You keep the covenant given to Israel in the desert and I will keep the covenant Jeremiah promised and Jesus ratified.
Paul stated that we can still observe sat, or Sun, or any day of the Week unto the lord now. Each person should be convinced in his own mind.
Are you trying to tell me I need to copy your verses or something else? Isn't that what I do by quoting your post?
Anything of law or command in ink or stone.
Here's exactly what you said -
שׁבת; shâbath or REST (H7673) is the ORIGIN or ROOT word for שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676).
Essentially your claim is they're the same by origin or root.
Nope it is not that is the same as saying you are free not to follow the bible and to lie, steal, murder commit adultery...etc. Please read post # 1039 linked. HEBREWS 7 is talking about a change of the laws from the MOSAIC Priesthood. This post has already been addressed you simply ignored it and all the scriptures in it that disagree with you.Let's look at the scriptures...HEBREWS 7 CHANGE OF LAWYour trying to argue that the change in the law in HEBREWS 7:12 is in reference to the 10 Commandments because you thought that the OLD COVENANT is only the 10 commandments.
Nope. No he didn't ROMANS 14 is not talking about the SABBATH of God's 4th commandment.
But I didn't think that. You would need to quote me saying that, and I have not.
For this reason:
Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
2 Corinthians 3:1-18
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God.
This covers all law, shadow law, and law in stones.
Well that has no truth in it. Read what was posted to you earlier. All what was said was that שׁבת; shâbath or REST (H7673) is the ORIGIN or ROOT word for שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) which it is.
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H7676
SABBATH 7676. שַׁבָּת shabbâth, shab-bawth´; intens. from 7673; intermission, i.e. (spec.) the Sabbath: every sabbath.
I never said that the HEBREW words for שׁבת; shâbath or REST (H7673) and שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) were the same now did I? If I never said the Hebrew words for REST and SABBATH were the same why try and pretend that I did? I posted them as separate words in the same context as KEEPING SABBATH REST EVERY SEVENTH DAY and the word REST in GENESIS 2 also means KEEPING OF THE SABBATH REST. Here is the post again, please read it more carefully.
GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.
The Hebrew word for RESTED used here is שׁבת; shâbath (H7673). It's meaning is; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
שׁבת; shâbath or REST (H7673) is the ORIGIN or ROOT word for שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) which is used in God's 4th commandments translated into english as SABBATH. The HEBREW Word for shabbâth meaing is the intermission between SABBATHS or shâbath (H7673) REST or the continuation meaing from one SABBATH REST to the Next SABBATH REST continuation or EVERY SABBATH. It's application is in God's 4th commandment EXODUS 20:8 is to REMEMBER [EVERY] Sabbath [shabbâth H7676].
In the 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11; v11 tells us the ORIGINS of God's 4th commandments Sabbath is in reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 and the reason why it is given as a memorial of Greation to whorship God as the creator of Heaven and Earth.
...............
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H7673
REST from GENESIS 2:1-3 שׁבת; shâbath; shaw-bath' A primitive root; to REPOSE, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, CELEBRATE, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) REST, rid, still, take away.
Hope this helps.
I'm convinced in my own mind that he is. That's what matters. You missed the lesson by requiring context, which the New Testament has never required the same context when quoting the OT 655 times.
The "10 Commandments" are not seperate law.Your post does not make any sense as the quote you were responding to was from your other post and claim about HEBREWS 7 talking about the 10 commandments which is what post # 1072 linked is responding to.
Nothing in the Old Testament is a requirement.
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