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THE SABBATH IS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT - WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ABOLISHED?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Jun 25, 2018.

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  1. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Allow me to repeat... Blessings and byeeee.
     
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, I was suprised coming back and there was already 5 pages of comments.

    I have not read all the comments yet but nice to see some active friendly discussion going on.

    I see no one has provided any scriptures yet to answer any questions from the OP here.

    I see lot's of side issues going on but for the sake of keeping on topic to the OP, I am just reposting this here...

    Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

    1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

    I have to go again but will pop in when I can to respond to some of the posts here. Nice to see the discussion going. Something to think about indeed.

    God's blessing to all :wave:
     
  3. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    Yeal I noticed, too, that no one answered your questions. The Socratic Method generally gets verbal dodge ball responses.
     
  4. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    More like the "Yea, hath GOD said...?" Method.
     
  5. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

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    From when I resisted the idea of keeping the Sabbath, with lots of excuses, just fyi for me it wasn't a bit about being "excommunicated". Ir was, in the back of my mind, about leaving my comfort zone and the big, flashy, Let Me Entertain You music from my mega Church. But the Lord kept working on me.
     
  6. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

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    It is silly, I agree. However, if you follow on thing on the law you must follow it all.
    Joshua 1:7-8
    Galatians 3:10

    Hebrews 10
    1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God

    The book of Hebrews kind of burst the bubble of any person wishing to continue in the old Mosaic laws.
     
  7. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

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    Let me interpret this for everyone if you will allow....

    The statement above, basically, is saying:

    1) I just don't care enough to explain and even if I did, I know there isn't evidence in the scripture to support my theory and I wish to be like the people in 2 Timothy 4:3-4

    or

    2) I have not the knowledge in scripture and I just believe what I wish to that someone else has told me because it feels good and sounds right to me like the people in 1 Timothy 4:1

    Hosea 4:6

    Look, forgive my blunt responses.

    However, if you going to refute scripture I have pulled, at least have the decency to put forth scripture in return for me to look over.

    Not your opinions.
     
  8. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    The Law is not the Mosaic Law; it is the Law of the Most High God. MOSES only delivered to humans something of the Most High God that they should have already known. It is all God's law, not Moses'; there is no such thing as a Mosaic Law.

    And why would anyone continue to sacrifice when Christ Is?

    It defeats the purpose of the sacrifice to continue sacrificing animals today, even though it is still a Law. That is where ministers get the idea of you crucifying the Redeemed every time you purposefully sin - because He is our Sacrifice.
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ken, great point above. Yes I also agree Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 show very clearly that the Sabbath remains for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9's correct translation here is...

    HEBREWS 4:9 [9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

    GREEK 4520. σαββατισμός sabbatismŏs, sab-bat-is-mos´; from a der. of 4521; a “sabbatism” Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 64). Bellingham. The GREEK Word used here is Gr. "sabbatismos", a Sabbath rest, a rest from all work (Heb. 4:9; R.V., “sabbath”), a rest like that of God when he had finished the work of creation. Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.

    INTERLINEAR GREEK
    So then [αρα] there remains [απολειπεται] a sabbath rest [σαββατισμος] for the [τω]
    people [λαω] - [του] of God [θεου]

    .............

    TRANSLATION PARALLELS

    New International Version
    There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

    English Standard Version
    So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

    Berean Study Bible
    So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Berean Literal Bible
    So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    New American Standard Bible
    So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    King James Bible
    There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    Christian Standard Bible
    Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

    Contemporary English Version
    But God has promised us a Sabbath when we will rest, even though it has not yet come.

    Good News Translation
    As it is, however, there still remains for God's people a rest like God's resting on the seventh day.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

    International Standard Version
    There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God to keep,

    NET Bible
    Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

    New Heart English Bible
    There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    Therefore, a time of rest and worship exists for God's people.

    New American Standard 1977
    There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    There remains therefore a rest {Gr. Sabbatismos} for the people of God.

    King James 2000 Bible
    There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.

    American King James Version
    There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.

    American Standard Version
    There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God.

    Darby Bible Translation
    There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

    English Revised Version
    There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    Weymouth New Testament
    It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

    World English Bible
    There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

    Young's Literal Translation
    there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God.

    .............

    What Hebrews 3 and Hebrew 4 teach that no one can enter into God's Sabbath rest without first entering into the Gospel rest. This is made clear in Hebrews 4:1-2.

    Thanks for sharing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dkh587, so true. This is the problem. Many people do not seek God through his WORD and are taught the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. I believe however God has his people in all Churches and those who are honest at heart are his sheep and will hear his voice and follow him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

    This is the NEW COVENANT of God's LAW written on the heart and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE his Word. * Romans 13:8:10; Hebrews 8:10-12

    Thanks for sharing your insight.
     
  11. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, one school of Pharisees was teaching that, not both. The context matters... I could share why but you are not showing any desire to learn anything new. My last post to you, that was longer... was an old article I wrote about those two schools and their influence in the first century. It really wouldn't hurt to take 5 minutes and read it... if you love Scripture and desire truth, then context really is king and context is NOT the verse before and after. But, I will leave that to you. Be well.
     
  12. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't have any issues with that, my good Lady. But when people throw out "animal sacrifices" as that one member did as if the "a ha" moment that got us... it's just silly. :) Few really understand the law anyway... and they seem to forget, as they mock it, that GOD is the author. And there are so many other ways to go with this... showing it is an everlasting covenant? Dealing with the notion that chadashah and kainos (the Hebrew and Greek words translated as "new" in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8) really mean "to renew" and are not speaking of something "brand new" which is how they take the covenant? But they won't even consider it... and that's ok. The awakening we see happening today is a process over a generation, not a genie-like snap of the finger that happens instantly.

    Brakhot.
    Ken
     
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  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello DavidFirth

    What are is the difference between the law of Moses and the law of God (10 Commandments)?

    Is Acts 15 talking about the law of Moses or the God's 10 Commandments? (see Acts 15:1-2)

    None of these scriptures say that God's LAW (10 Commandments) are abolished. This also includes God's 4th Commandment.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
     
  14. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    I did read your long post. What you described is what I described. One sect thought that gentile proselytes had to become proselytes of righteousness by getting circumcised and observing the law of Moses (Acts 15:1, 5; Galatians 6:12-13), the other thought that they only had to become proselytes of the gate by observing the so-called laws of Noah (Acts 15:20, 29). The gentile believers were already doing that, otherwise they would not have been allowed to attend the synagogues where Christ was being taught.

    That controversy raged in Judaism for centuries. It was by no means settled at the early time you mentioned. That controversy precipitated the Acts 15 council. The decision was that the believing gentiles only had to conform to the rules for proselytes of the gate, and not the more strict rules for proselytes of righteousness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  15. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    The law of Moses was GOD's law from the formation of Israel until Christ. GOD's law is now the law of Christ that superceded and subsumed the law of Moses.

    Acts 15 concerns the entire law of Moses.
     
  16. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    Neither Hebrews 3 or 4 even mention the weekly sabbath.

    Sabbatismo
    means the keeping of a sabbath, but not necessarily weekly sabbaths. It is also used for the festivals and the 7-year land sabbaths.
     
  17. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First of all, the Noachide laws are found in the Talmud, you do know that wasn't compiled and written until 350 years+ after the ascension of messiah? Second, the Noachide laws are not in the bible... look them up... establishing a system of law is NOT commanded to Noach or anyone else. Lastly, Hillel's position in about 10BC was that the 4 things (which end up in the Acts 15 letter) were enough to "separate them from the pagan backgrounds" and then they were to go and learn the rest. It wasn't an end all, it was the place to begin, a starting point in a lifelong journey. Shammai, who was in that debate with Hillel, agreed with Hillel on the 4 but added knowing all 613 commands and being circumcised immediately. Shammai was considered the winner and that was the ruling for NEW CONVERTS to what would one day be called Judaism. Paul, who attended Beit Hillel, already stood against that interpretation and seeing the new "Christians" weren't technically joining Judaism, took issue and helped reverse a bad decision that happened 50 years before.

    Actually it was very settled. The face of Christianity ceased being predominately Jewish by the time of the bar Khokba revolt of 134AD. By 150, non-Jewish Christians (like Justin Martyr) were calling Jewish people "Christ Killer" and that anti-Judaic undertone began to permeate the faith. By 200 we began to pass decrees to make us look less Jewish. We actually passed decrees to not eat the food of the Jews and to refrain from the Jewish Sabbath. Those decrees had to be made because Christians were still eating cleaning and resting on the 7th day.
     
  18. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    It began to be redacted at that time. It took about 500 years to complete, I believe.
     
  19. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    Yes, I know. They are a rabbinical invention.
     
  20. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    Those 4 laws were an incipient form of the now 7 Noahide laws.

    The decision that you say was binding 50 years before the council wasn't binding at synagogues throughout the world because believing gentiles weren't circumcised and observing the law of Moses, yet they were attending synagogues. The fact that followers of Shammai came and tried to impose the more restrictive conditions on them shows that the controversy was still occurring. And it raged for centuries afterwards.

    So I really don't understand what it is you are trying to say. The only thing I see that we differ on is whether the controversy was settled, or not.
     
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