The rules.

[Carl Emerson]

Christianity is about relationship not rules...

 

[dogs4thewin]

What about the ten commandments, do all Christians agree on that at least?

yes

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not everyone agrees with the one involving the Sabbath.

but most agree that you should have a Sabbath. That is not the same thing as agreeing on when it is or in what activities should be forbidden.

 

[hedrick]

There are different approaches to Christian ethics, though the results tend to be similar. One common one says that OT laws included things that were essentially moral, some that established specific worship styles and holidays, and some that were the equivalent of civil laws. Only the first type would be relevant to Christians. (That *doesn't* mean that the OT authors would have understood the laws to fall into these categories. There's no sign of a distinction in the OT itself. However in retrospect, Christians can see that the OT laws are of varying relevance to us.)

The 10 commandments is often used as a summary. In fact Jesus used it that way himself. But the sabbath is normally understood as falling into the second category -- instructions for specific worship practices. For Christians it turns into a commandment to worship regularly, but not necessarily on a specific day.

Note however that Jesus tended to emphasize intention rather than the letter of the law. In Matthew 5 he comments on most of the 10 commandments. For example, he sees the prohibition of murder as a prohibition of hatred. In fact Christians have generally included positive aspects as well, so that the prohibition of murder now includes helping preserve the lives of others.

Jesus was also willing to violate laws when necessary for human welfare. E.g. he says "the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath." (Incidentally, many Jews both at the time and now would say that you should violate the Sabbath laws when necessary to save someone.)

See also Matthew 22:34-40. There has says that love God and your neighbor is primary. The detailed laws are explanations of that.

Of course in addition to things like the 10 commandments, Jesus also taught positive practices, e.g. forgiveness and not judging.

All of this means that it's more accurate to think of Jesus as teaching principles for behavior rather than laws.

 

[Cis.jd]

but most agree that you should have a Sabbath. That is not the same thing as agreeing on when it is or in what activities should be forbidden.

Yes, that is why I said "not everyone". There are denominations that state it has to be on Saturday.

 

[d taylor]

For Catholics, we believe in Faith and Works.

Faith alone is a protestant doctrine and IMO it is a dark/bad belief in any aspects.

Anybody can claim to be christian and maybe believe in Jesus etc but if he/she is a horrible person (there are many) then it's meaningless.

This forum is full of such crazies who totally reject reason and have shut their brains to the 1,200+pages made from early BC - early AD so they normally have unintelligent to even atrocious point of views that are tied by superstition and just uneducated on things that Science has explained and proven.
You'll read the most brainless nonsense to the most atrocious moral views (battered wives have to stay with their abusive husbands), and the worst part is the Christian thinks he is above reason and evidence because "he is the one who hears His voice".

So logically you begin to ask how can a person like that go straight to heaven - but me a random dude who does what he can as honest as he can, with whatever limits- goes to hell? Why want to be a Christian anyway, especially if this wacko is right? That's the bad thing about the "Faith alone" view, because technically based on that then this paragraph is right and reality just becomes even darker than it is.

Very few protestants, believe in a faith alone salvation. It is a very low percentage.
They just slip the works in to the idea of faith they love to add repentance, commitment, obedience, baptism, etc...

 

[FireDragon76]

I understand that, for Christians, they are saved by their faith in Christ.
But as I understand it, even so, they should still try their best to follow the law, commandments etc... though some of that changed around food and circumcision.

But what rules are Christians still supposed to follow to the best of their ability? Working on Sabbath? Making sacrifices? Are most of the Old Testament rules the ideal? etc.
Where is this set out?

There is no one answer among Christians on this point. There are different biblical hermeneutics and different groups approach the Bible in different ways.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

So at least nine of the ten commandments, what about any other laws from the OT or NT that must Christians would feel were essential?

I know Jesus said that not a letter of the law would be changed, so the whole process of how the current situation was arrived at seems a bit confusing to me.
Stuff in there about gentiles recieving the Holy Spirit seems to have changed attitudes in the early church?

I hear some Christians getting worked up about issues around Paganism and gay marriage etc. etc. But I'm not really sure how these became key issues and not others...
Eating foods left for idols and eating blood and sexual immorality are mentioned in acts? Does sexual immorality mean homosexuality or is it very general? I don't know any Greek so I can't look up any translations myself.

In the UK there is a food called Black Pudding, it's a sausage made out of blood. Can Christians eat that, or is it not really a thing anymore?
Fascinating answers here, thank you!

 

[hedrick]

I know Jesus said that not a letter of the law would be changed, so the whole process of how the current situation was arrived at seems a bit confusing to me.
Stuff in there about gentiles recieving the Holy Spirit seems to have changed attitudes in the early church?

Jesus and Paul had slightly different approaches that worked out to pretty much the same thing.

Jesus never suggested that the Law was dead. However he looked behind the Law to its intent. E.g Mat 19:8, which suggests that the written Law didn't fully express God's intention. Not to mention Mat 5.

Paul, on the other hand, suggested that the Law no longer applied. He never gave a replacement, though sin lists appear in passages such as 1 Cor 6:9. The most controversial actual moral case he dealt with was in 1 Cor, a case of incest. He didn't cite law, but "nature," which in context seems to be an ethical consensus even including pagans.

If you read both the Gospels and Paul you'll find plenty of ethical guidance, but no fully worked out list of rules. I think that may have been intentional. How would you come up with a complete set of rules that would apply both to 1st Cent rural Palestine and the 21st Cent US?

Jesus did give to the Church the authority to deal with these issues ,Mat 16:19. The power of loosing and binding was a rabbinical concept, describing the authority to make binding interpretations of Torah.

 

[eleos1954]

I understand that, for Christians, they are saved by their faith in Christ.
But as I understand it, even so, they should still try their best to follow the law, commandments etc... though some of that changed around food and circumcision.

But what rules are Christians still supposed to follow to the best of their ability? Working on Sabbath? Making sacrifices? Are most of the Old Testament rules the ideal? etc.
Where is this set out?

The "rules" are the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:1 and onwards) ... His Holy Word teaches that many who claim to be christians are ... will be deceived by false teachings and will be deceived.

The ceremonial laws related to the earthly temple system were nailed to the cross ... done away with.

The 10 commandments define the very character of God and how we are to relate to Him and how to treat others.

When one accepts Jesus, He begins working in the believer ... changing their thinking ... helping them (over the course of their lifetime) to become conformed to His image (His character). It's His work in the believer through His Holy Spirit ... without Jesus we don't have any "ability".

 

[Sketcher]

I know Jesus said that not a letter of the law would be changed, so the whole process of how the current situation was arrived at seems a bit confusing to me.
Stuff in there about gentiles recieving the Holy Spirit seems to have changed attitudes in the early church?

Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit doesn't nullify what Jesus said about the Law, nor does what he said about the Law nullify Acts 15. The Law was given to Jews. Jews that become Christians do not cease to be Jews, so everything that Jews do that does not deny Jesus should still probably be practiced by Jewish Christians. But again, in the OT, Gentiles were never under the Law, though there were certain laws that all humanity needs to follow. So saying that Gentiles do not have to follow a large swath of laws that were given to Jews does nothing to deny what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 at all.

Eating foods left for idols and eating blood and sexual immorality are mentioned in acts? Does sexual immorality mean homosexuality or is it very general? I don't know any Greek so I can't look up any translations myself.

It's a general term that means all manner of sexual deviance. It includes fornication, adultery, homosexual relations, inappropriate behavior with animals, incest, and quite probably worse things than that.

In the UK there is a food called Black Pudding, it's a sausage made out of blood. Can Christians eat that, or is it not really a thing anymore?

I would personally avoid it. Also, it is useful to know what is "blood" according to Jewish law. Fish blood for instance, does not count, and myoglobin in steaks is not "blood" according to Jewish law or according to science.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I understand that, for Christians, they are saved by their faith in Christ.
But as I understand it, even so, they should still try their best to follow the law, commandments etc... though some of that changed around food and circumcision.

But what rules are Christians still supposed to follow to the best of their ability? Working on Sabbath? Making sacrifices? Are most of the Old Testament rules the ideal? etc.
Where is this set out?

The Torah, the 613 mitzvot or commandments given to the Jewish people as part of the covenant God made with them through Moses does not apply to Christians. The reason is that we believe that the point of those commandments, and that covenant, was ultimately to point to Jesus. With the coming of Jesus, their purpose was satisfied.

That doesn't mean there aren't commandments in the Torah which aren't still relevant, for example the commands against murder, theft, etc are all quite relevant. But these are understood as being universal moral standards God expects from everyone, not just from the Jewish people.

As far as what could be termed "ritual laws", that is certain food taboos, or rules pertaining to some kind of ritual purity which then requires things like sacrifice, or washing in a certain way; or rules which govern special articles of clothing. Christianity doesn't have any.

There is no "book of rules" that Christians have; instead we are given the Great Commandment--to love God and neighbor--and we have the words of Jesus and His Apostles which guide our conduct. St. Augustine of Hippo wrote, "Love, and do what you will." The point Augustine is making here isn't live however you like as long as you give lip service to "love"; instead his point is that if we are truly taking seriously God's call that we love Him and love our neighbor as ourselves, then our conscience will be informed and be motivated by God's commandment. If I am taking Christ's command seriously, then when I see my neighbor is hungry, I will give him food; if I see that my neighbor is thirsty, I will give her water to drink.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the UK there is a food called Black Pudding, it's a sausage made out of blood. Can Christians eat that, or is it not really a thing anymore?

As in similar questions, you'll get different answers; but my argument:

The answer is yes, black pudding is fine to eat--assuming one wants to. We read in the Acts of the Apostles that the Council of Jerusalem wrote a letter instructing the new Gentile converts to abstain from consuming blood; but this is generally understood to be for the purpose of facilitating a distancing from Pagan practice. In St. Paul's letters a reoccurring topic is eating food sacrificed to idols; the question basically is: Can Christians eat food sacrificed to idols? And the answer is complicated. Technically it's a "yes", but the position Paul takes is that those who recognize that idols are nothing at all and who eat such food are just eating regular food, not special food, can do so with a free conscience; on the other hand, someone who is still struggling and might be prone to think that by eating such food is participating in Pagan worship should abstain. And as such, it becomes a delicate matter of balancing individual freedom of conscience and respecting the sensibilities of others. Paul makes a similar case about eating meat or being vegetarian, that someone by their conscience eats only vegetables and another by their conscience eats meat; and the one who eats meat should respect the conscience of the one who eats only vegetables, and the other should not judge the one who eats meat. And that, as long as one is abiding by their conscience, honoring God, and respecting one another--one is free to eat and not eat whatever they want.

So the prohibition against consuming blood isn't a dietary restriction placed upon all Christians of all times; but was specifically given for the particular circumstances of the time. As such, black pudding is fine to eat. That said, if someone abstains from certain kinds of food out of conscience, then they should follow their conscience on the matter--and we should respect one anothers' choices of conscience on such things.

Something similar happened in the middle ages. When St. Boniface was spreading the Gospel among the Saxons of Northern Europe, Pope Gregory III sent him a letter instructing him to forbid the Saxons from slaughtering and consuming horse meat. Because the ritual sacrifice of horses was a widespread practice among the Germanic peoples of Northern Europe. The point, of course, wasn't that eating horse meat itself was actually wrong, but rather by forbidding eating horse meat the Pope wanted to encourage the Saxon converts to distance themselves from their former practices.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Tellyontellyon]

This is all interesting. I get the sense that a loving relationship is really at the heart of things. Not so much about rules, but about mercy and forgiveness... if only we are ready to accept with gratitude that mercy.
It does seem to me though that all the old fire and brimstone stuff still seems to carry some weight with some.
I know they are not representative, but I've seen those videos of the Westbro church people saying insults about gay people, but there seems to be some of that anti-LGBT+ feeling among much more mainstream Christian groups.
It worries me a bit.. I've been reading the Bible and praying a bit to God for insight (even though I'm a Buddhist) and I'm open to getting some sort of awakening from this... but I don't want to change my personal position on LGBT+ people that I find nothing wrong with.
How do you deal with this?

 

[food4thought]

This is all interesting. I get the sense that a loving relationship is really at the heart of things. Not so much about rules, but about mercy and forgiveness... if only we are ready to accept with gratitude that mercy.

Yes, this is the heart of it.

It does seem to me though that all the old fire and brimstone stuff still seems to carry some weight with some.

There will be a final judgment, and we will all have to give an accounting of our lives before God... this is a scary thing, but it should not be forgotten or pushed aside just because it is not easy to contemplate.

I know they are not representative, but I've seen those videos of the Westbro church people saying insults about gay people,

They horribly misrepresent the Lord's heart towards the LGBTQ+ community.

but there seems to be some of that anti-LGBT+ feeling among much more mainstream Christian groups.
It worries me a bit.. I've been reading the Bible and praying a bit to God for insight (even though I'm a Buddhist) and I'm open to getting some sort of awakening from this... but I don't want to change my personal position on LGBT+ people that I find nothing wrong with.
How do you deal with this?

This is THE big issue of the day within the Church. Site rules forbid Christians to openly promote the LGBTQ+ lifestyle, so those who are for fully embracing the LGTBQ+ lifestyle as ok (IOW's, not sinful) are not allowed to debate the issue. I will say that the reason for the rule is that the Bible is abundantly clear on the issue, but I must admit that not all Christians agree about that.

That said, Jesus said that we should be loving and merciful towards all, so those who castigate the LGBTQ+ community are doing so AGAINST the Lord's clear command. We are to love them... but as my signature says: love without truth is not God's love. I believe that the truth is that it is sin (this is the clear teaching of both the Old and New Testament, IMO). Now we are all sinners, and many of us even struggle with habitual sin. But we recognize our sin as sin, and strive to be set free from it... I hope you see the contrast.

God bless you;
Michael

 

[Sketcher]

This is all interesting. I get the sense that a loving relationship is really at the heart of things. Not so much about rules, but about mercy and forgiveness... if only we are ready to accept with gratitude that mercy.
It does seem to me though that all the old fire and brimstone stuff still seems to carry some weight with some.

Fire-and-brimstone attempts to do justice to the seriousness of sin, and that seriousness must not be lost. However, it easily can downplay grace. The seriousness of sin is what makes the grace so amazing, but don't forget about the grace! There needs to be a holy tension between the fire-and-brimstone and the too-soft approach.

I know they are not representative, but I've seen those videos of the Westbro church people saying insults about gay people, but there seems to be some of that anti-LGBT+ feeling among much more mainstream Christian groups.
It worries me a bit.. I've been reading the Bible and praying a bit to God for insight (even though I'm a Buddhist) and I'm open to getting some sort of awakening from this... but I don't want to change my personal position on LGBT+ people that I find nothing wrong with.
How do you deal with this?

Well, Westboro Baptist believes that everyone they hate (not just gays) are "permanently reprobate" and therefore irredeemable, so that's why they act the way they do. This is not the attitude that the Bible teaches us to have towards the lost world, nor does the Bible tell us who is "permanently reprobate" vs who is not, despite what they will teach. In fact, the Bible teaches us that former homosexual offenders became Christians and were made clean just as we all were (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

The fact of the matter is that Christians with same-sex attractions exist, and they are just as saved as the rest of us. They are not to indulge those same-sex attractions - homosexual lust and encounters and relationships are still wrong - but being tempted that way doesn't mark them as any worse than anyone else. Furthermore, despite what the media will seek to portray, there are Christians with strong same-sex attractions who have resolved to abstain from homosexual relations because they put Jesus first. They are valuable members of the church body.

 

[Albion]

Hello, Tellyoutellyon. A concise way of looking at the matter is to say the Ten Commandments--the Law given in the Old Testament--remain in force, although the teachings of Christ and the eternal life made possible for us through what He did for us render them a standard, not the requirement which determines our eternal destiny. As for what of the Old Testament was cancelled, that refers to the ceremonial regulations, not the Commandments.

 

[Hawkins]

So at least nine of the ten commandments, what about any other laws from the OT or NT that must Christians would feel were essential?

OT is for God to illustrate what His Law is through the Jews. Mosaic Law came with a granted covenant to the Jews and Jews only (and some converts). In the Mosaic covenant both Law and commandments are enforced as Law. It means you (a Jew) will be sentenced to death even when you break a crucial commandment for only once.

Gentiles don't have the Law (Mosaic Law to be explicit), they need only to follow their conscience to act. However everyone's heart is too hardened to follow one's own conscience that humans actually lost what can referred to as the original moral code. That's why no one can pass the judgment without the New Covenant.

The New Covenant is all about Jesus. Commandments are in a form of Christ's teaching or Christ's commands. They are not enforced as Law. You can break them more than once and repent, it's all up to Jesus to define who you are.

That said. Even to the Jews that most ritual rules don't work as it is specified that they must be performed inside the Temple which was down in AD 70.

 

[Within Reason]

I understand that, for Christians, they are saved by their faith in Christ.
But as I understand it, even so, they should still try their best to follow the law, commandments etc... though some of that changed around food and circumcision.

But what rules are Christians still supposed to follow to the best of their ability? Working on Sabbath? Making sacrifices? Are most of the Old Testament rules the ideal? etc.
Where is this set out?

These video may help you:

The dietary laws didn't change one bit, that is a mistake many make.

As for the Sabbath, these may help you:

Spiritual sacrifices are still required. A broken and contrite heart -

Psa_51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psa_107:22 And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing.​

etc.

Spiritual circumcision is still required:

Deu_10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deu_30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Jer_4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
​

Jesus said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.​