The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

Swag365

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It’s only as authoritative as your magisterium makes it.
No, the magisterium does not make Sacred Scripture more or less authoritative. Sacred Scripture is an authority. God himself is an authority. Should the pope or anyone else say otherwise he would be in error.

And the magisterium claims its authority from the Scriptures.
This may be true, but I would have to look into the issue more carefully. I suspect that strictly speaking this is not true, at least insofar as the magisterium would claim authority solely from Sacred Scripture. This is seen from the fact that the bishops of the Church claimed authority even before the first book of the New Testament was written.
 
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redleghunter

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No, the magisterium does not make Sacred Scripture more or less authoritative. Sacred Scripture is an authority. God himself is an authority. Should the pope or anyone else say otherwise he would be in error.

This may be true, but I would have to look into the issue more carefully. I suspect that strictly speaking this is not true, at least insofar as the magisterium would claim authority solely from Sacred Scripture. This is seen from the fact that the bishops of the Church claimed authority even before the first book of the New Testament was written.
Thanks. When you find out from your own sources where your magisterium gets its authority other than Sacred Scriptures.
 
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Swag365

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Thanks. When you find out from your own sources where your magisterium gets its authority other than Sacred Scriptures.
Well, as an example, St. Peter, the first bishop of our Church, received authority directly from our Lord Jesus himself.
 
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fhansen

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According to your own standards, it would have to be a source or authority about which there was no disagreement, no diversity of interpretations, no division of opinion about what it was revealing. As I have shown before, that cannot be Sacred Tradition...and it cannot be the "authority" of any particular church or church leaders.
Why not? Why couldn't-why wouldn't-God establish a church-one church-having that authority? And why couldn't its Tradition be one of its sources of revelation? It can't because you say it can't? Or prefer that it can't? As already said, the authority, in this case the church-does not disagree with itself any more than Lutheranism disagrees with Lutheranism. So the only real question on the table remains unanswered, who, or what, is the authority?
...a claim that is of course untrue. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of church history knows that it is false.
Anyone taking an honest look at history knows that they both observed the Lord's Day as their main day of rest and worship, that they practiced infant baptism, that they believed in baptismal regeneration, that they believed in the Real Presence-both understanding John chap 6 in the same way- that their liturgies together with the language used for consecration of the the host are virtually identical, that they both believe in the priesthood and the continuous succession of it being passed on sacramentally by the laying on of hands, both recognize seven sacraments, both teach theosis/deification of man and a salvation that is worked out over time by human cooperation with grace/energies, both believe in Sacred Tradition by whatever name as a source of revelation-that list goes on and on and Sola Scriptura adherents either contest some of them outright, or disagree among themselves over them.

Truth is not arrived at by democratic vote. The Church simply proclaims the truth that she received at the beginning-and anyone can contest it based on whatever grounds or other authority they might appeal to. But the question is never about whether or not human agreement causes the truth to be definitively known, but about who has the right and the divine guidance to properly discern the truth in its fullness. Disagreement on Scriptural interpretation-or on the interpretation of whatever source of revelation is recognized- only points to the fact that a designated interpreter is a necessity-and that the doctrine of Sola Scriptura proves itself to be unworkable.

If everyone disagreed with the tenets promulgated by Lutheranism, that in no way would prove Lutheranism to be wrong. But the same cannot be said about Scripture because at the end of the day Scripture is strictly a source of divine revelation which must be understood first of all. IOW, with varying interpretations, all often plausible, which is the right one? If any?
 
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Swag365

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Thanks. When you find out from your own sources where your magisterium gets its authority other than Sacred Scriptures.
As I suspected, there does not appear to be any basis for your assertion. It is false.

The Church derives her authority from Christ and the apostles, through the laying on of hands throughout the centuries. This is explained at paragraphs 19-21 of Lumen Gentium.
 
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redleghunter

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The Church derives her authority from Christ and the apostles, through the laying on of hands throughout the centuries.
That’s an assertion based on Tradition right?

This is explained at paragraphs 19-21 of Lumen Gentium.
Again there you have it. A magisterium decree over Holy Scriptures.
 
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Swag365

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That’s an assertion based on Tradition right?
The assertion finds evidence in both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

Again there you have it. A magisterium decree over Holy Scriptures.
I do not know what you mean. If you can further explain the point you desire to make by this statement, perhaps I can respond to it.
 
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redleghunter

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I don't think I would phrase it like that. Please refer to paragraph 10 of Dei Verbum to see what the Church teaches in that respect.
Perhaps you can tell me how much of the Bible the Roman Catholic magisterium has infallibly interpreted?
 
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Swag365

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Perhaps you can tell me how much of the Bible the Roman Catholic magisterium has infallibly interpreted?
That I do not know. This is starting to become an inquisition of sorts.

Do you have a point that you desire to make?
 
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redleghunter

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That I do not know. This is starting to become an inquisition of sorts.

Do you have a point that you desire to make?
Yes where does Sacred Scripture stand among Sacred Tradition? A part of it or the primary source to test truth claims?


Also I asked earlier a question on your use 2 Thessalonians 2:15. I asked if the Catholic Church has a list of the traditions Paul mentions.
 
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Swag365

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Yes where does Sacred Scripture stand among Sacred Tradition? A part of it or the primary source to test truth claims?

Also I asked earlier a question on your use 2 Thessalonians 2:15. I asked if the Catholic Church has a list of the traditions Paul mentions.
These are more questions.

Do you have a point that you desire to make?
 
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redleghunter

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That's speculation. And the question remains anyway: who can give the infallible interpretation of Scripture?
I guess you have the answer.

How much of Sacred Scriptures has the magisterium actually infallibly interpreted?
 
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