The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

[swordsman1]

The anointing teaches all things they have no need that any man should teach them.

If teachers are not necessary then why did God give humans the gift of teaching?

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers,​

Do you suppose that the teaching of the Spirit does not use words to their inner man and inner ear? Do you suppose that when the Holy Ghost teaches this is not somehow understandable as words?

"13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."( 1 Cor 2"13 KJV)

That verse says is talking about the Spirit teaching the apostles, not us.

We know that the Holy Ghost speaks in words that men understand. This is also How he speaks in our hearts, in our spirit as well as we can see from scripture

"As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."(Acts 13:2 KJV)

Here we don't know who said these words from the Holy Ghost. But He was speaking in some of them and they spoke forth that word.

There were people with the gift of prophecy in the early church. Notice the Holy Spirit said precise words to them which are quoted here. "the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas...." These were not feelings which they verbalized using their own words.

The speaking that men do is by God in them. We already saw this possibility in Matthew 10 where Jesus said it is not you who speak but the Spirit of your father which speaketh in you.

Jesus was speaking to the apostles.

This also is shown to the Corinthians in their spiritual utterances by the Spirit. These utterances can come forth as doctrine, prophecy, revelation, wisdom, knowledge tongues exhortation , teaching , preaching etc.

In the absence of scripture, the early church were given revelatory gifts which have since ceased.

 

[W2L]

It seems unwise to follow teachers in these last days. Men will heap teachers to themselves to tickle their ears. Meanwhile we have the scriptures (the real teachers) to guide us and we have the Spirit as well.

 

[swordsman1]

Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Here we know that Abraham did not have scripture yet. So your dogmatic statement that
"God's voice is scripture." Is not correct.

As I have already shown, every single instance of God's "voice" is either God's audible voice, or metaphorically God's word in scripture. It is never an inner feeling.

Also the pharisees had scripture and did not hear God's voice or word. They did not have God's word abiding in them, even though they heard Jesus in person and had scripture. He that is of God heareth God's word. They were not of God so they could not hear or know or understand by simply reading scripture or hearing Jesus speak. Jesus said

"43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44... 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."(John 8:43,47 KJV)

You have to have to have an "honest and good heart" (Luke 8:15) before God's word abides in you. Something the pharisees lacked.

Gods voice speaks to the heart. God searches the heart. Jesus said "they shall all be taught of God". Consider this verse and the words "heard". Where do you suppose the father speaks to them? In the heart and in their spirit as it seems clear.

God's voice, in scripture, does indeed speaks to the heart. People are taught of God when they read scripture. It abides in the heart.

Luke 8:15 "As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience."​

In Dueteronomy 30 we already saw that Paul reveals the mystery here that Christ speaks in them and His word is close to them all. This is the vice of God. Even before the scripture was given. God said the commandment was not hidden from them. He had already written n their hearts similarly as he did to all Gentiles in Romans 2"14,15 KJV.

You are wrong yet again. Scripture had been given in Deut 30. And it is scripture that this chapter is referring to. Deut 30 makes no mention of Christ. Nor does Paul say it does.

Deut 30:10 "If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law"​

1 Kings 19:12
"And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."

It was an audible voice that Elijah heard, not a feeling.

Proverbs 16:1
"The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord."

The Lord prepares the heart and gives the words.

No he doesn't give the words, he gives the answer to man's words;

Genesis 15:4
"And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir."

Here we see that the "word of the Lord came" this was not scripture yet.

That was God's audible voice. It quotes the exact words that God spoke to Abraham. They were not feelings.

1 Samuel 15:10
"Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,"

scripture had been given at this time but God still had His word come to Sammuel and speak in Spirit to Him. God is a spirit and he speaks to our spirit. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit neither can he know them. This speaking here to Sammuel was most likely not an audible voice outside him. But rather to His spirit.

Samuel heard God's audible voice. Read 1 Sam 3.

Jeremiah 31:33
"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

This does not say God speaks via feelings.

Psalm 15:2
"He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart."

Read it again. It is the person who speaks, not God!

Matthew 9:4
"And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?"

How on earth do you interpret that verse as God speaking to us by inner feelings?

If Jesus knows our hearts can he not also speak to our hearts?

Yes he does.

He doesn't speak to us by inner feelings.

 

[swordsman1]

I have given you many verses showing light inwardly.

You have not shown me a single verse that says the light of Christ is an inward light. Rather I have shown you numerous ones that say it is external.

here is a basic one I marvel how you can not see these things. But 21 Cor 2 is true so I should not marvel at it.

"God is light" (1 John 1:5 KJV)

As I have already explained, it is obvious from the next verse that "light" here is a metaphor for righteousness.

"God dwelleth in you" (1 Cor 3:16 KJV)

You are dishonestly misquoting scripture. Let's see what the verse actually says before you distorted the meaning by only quoting part of it.

1 Cor 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"​

The Spirit is not light.

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light...")2 Cor 4:6 KJV)

And let's correct your distortion of that verse as well by finishing the sentence....

"to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ"​

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."(Philippians 2:13 KJV)

How is that verse saying the light of Christ is an inner light?

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Corinthians 13:5)

Christ dwells in us by the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit. Scripture makes that clear, as I have previously shown.

 

[swordsman1]

I was not even implying such a answer as you gave there.

That was the same perverted method you used to arrive at your conclusion that "the truth" in Rom 1:18 is Christ.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Nowhere does it say God's voice is an inner feeling..

Where did I ever say God’s”s voice is a feeling?

God’s voice comes from Him directly in every believer. God dwells in all the saints and His word comes from him. His light and power and truth come directly of Him in
Him and through Him to believers.

You confound yourself again.

 

[swordsman1]

I'm beginning to wonder if you are going to say that God who is Light does not dwell in us, or that Jesus Christ who is God does not dwell in us, or that the father and the Holy Ghost do not dwell in us. I am wondering whats next in your denial of the true Light that lights men inwardly.

The only person of the Trinity that indwells believers is the Holy Spirit. Scripture makes that quite clear. The Spirit of Christ and the Father is the Holy Spirit. There are not 3 Spirits.

John was not that Light he bore witness to the light.And light that was in him was of God

"Bearing witness of the Light" does not mean that light was in John. It means he told people about Jesus.

and when Jesus speaks of men letting their light so shine before men it was to glorify their Father who worked in them and gave them light as scripture shows.

Matthew 5:16
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

The very words you quote show your error - "they may see your good works". The light that other people see are a believers good works. Notice it says "your light", not God's light or Christ's light.

 

[LoveofTruth]

There is no such thing as hearing God's "voice" inwardly. I have shown from numerous verses that God's voice is either his audible voice, or metaphorically it is scripture. .

You errors and confusion in interpretation are being more and more manifest. You directly contradict scripture many times in this entire thread.

Your correction again...

2 Corinthians 13 - 3. Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.”

The issue is not wether only Paul heard God’s voice inwardly as well as the other believers. The issue is that God does speak inwardly. You try to avoid this clear truth by distracting with your many fallacy arguments and straw man arguments etc., by saying that was just Paul who heard.

Another verse that God does speak inwardly and men hear him inwardly is here . And you have no proof that the Same Lord cannot speak inwardly this way to all who are brought before men in persecution and as witness. We see Stephen and Paul and others speaking with such power and wisdom from God as well no doubt the same God was speaking in them and giving them the words as well

Matthew 10 - 20. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”

And Jesus speaks to all men of hearing and being taught by the Father even before they come to him

John 6 - 45. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

This rebukes your erroneous doctrine and shows that “all men” cannot hear the Father and be taught of Him and this hearing is in thier hearts where the Father “ speaketh in you” as Jesus said.

And one more of the many verses that could be brought showing that Christ is in men and giving them testimony and speaking in them which they would then speak forth.

1 Peter 1:11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”

And This whole section corrects your doctrine

“ Ephesians 4:15-23 KJV “But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 21. If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;”

 

[swordsman1]

You are again in error. God himself shines in our hearts. God is Light and the light that shines from him is given in our hearts,This light gives knowledge and understanding and the gospel is also the gospel OF Christ. Christ in you is the hope of glory.

If men say they only believe the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and are not born again and have an inner new man, then they are not in Christ. If they believe unto righteousness with their heart Christ dwells in their heart by faith. This light of the glorious gospel of Christ shines unto them. The substance of things hope for and the evidence of things not seen is in them in faith. Christ in you is the hope of glory. This is the mystery that hat=h been hid from ages and is till hidden it seems to many today. Spiritual things are only known in the spirit, no matter how some my try to explain them away with intellectual reasoning and interpretation of word meanings .

Jesus spoke spiritual truths deliberately to only give them to those who can see and hear in a different way than the masses in darkness.

Wrong. God shines the light of the gospel in our hearts, not his own light or that of Christ.

2 Cor 4:4-6 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them...For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

This is not the light of Christ. The light of Christ is an external light, as I have shown from scripture over and over and over again.

 

[swordsman1]

Do you think this light spoken of here is referring to an outward light? Such as the Sun, or Jesus physically walking on the earth. This is not the case. Jesus said "EVERYONE THAT DOETH EVIL" hateth the light. This "EVERYONE" would include all those who are blind and cannot see the outward, and all those since Adam who have done evil. The work of the law is written in the hearts of all and these secret things inwardly is where God desires truth and where God searches the heart.

You are in error here.


"and their foolish heart was darkened."(Romans 1:21 KJV)

1 John 2:11
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes."​

This blindness is not talking about an outward blindness physically, but of his spiritual eyes, Jesus said let the blind lead the blind, he is referring to spiritual blindness and darkness. This hatred comes from within and this is where they are either walking in the light or in darkness

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15 KJV)

Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Psalm 44:21
"Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart."



You say this is an outward light? You are wrong again...

the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts and out of the heart the life flows.

Proverbs 4:23
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life."

Romans 5:5
"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

1 John 2:15
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

I have never said the light of Christ is a visible light. That would be foolish. It is a spiritual light. But all the references to that light in scripture are of it being an external light, not a light inside us.

 

[swordsman1]

​

Paul does connect them with himself and he even uses the word "also"

"3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you. 4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:3-5 KJV)

You claimed that 2 Cor 13:3 says that Christ spoke in Paul, and that he 'also' spoke in the Corinthians.

It says nothing of the sort.

 

[swordsman1]

wrong, he includes all past present and future,

Even in Romans 10 we read of these various times, Notice the references to the past with men like Moses, the prophest , the word close to men in Deuteronomy, Psalm 19 written in the past, etc

"5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.


6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, [Dueteronomy quote from Old testament of the past] Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above


7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)


8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


11 For the scripture saith [OT reference Isaiah 28:16, the name Jesus was not yet known and they could still "believe"], Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: [This would extend far back and far into the future as well. God is over all of all time] for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.


13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?


15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, [OT quote again]How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [Ot quote about obeying the gospel]


17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.[OT quote in Psalms again]


19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.


20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.


21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. [Again Isaiah 65:2 OT words applied then and in the present applications]

Although Paul references OT scriptures, the people he refers to this chapter for salvation are all in the present and future tense especially those in Rom 10:13-15 . He is clearly referring to people in the current dispensation. Not people in the OT.

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
​

 

[swordsman1]

You couldn't be more wrong.

"13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. 14 And I will be found of you, saith the Lord: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the Lord; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive."(Jeremiah 23:13,14 KJV)

9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever."(1 Chronicles 28:9 KJV) So the opposite of being cast off is to be found forever.

"6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon."(Isaiah 55:6.7 KJV)

"7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."(Matthew 7:7,8 KJV)

2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.
3 Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.
4 But when they in their trouble did turn unto the Lord God of Israel, and sought him, he was found of them."(2 Chronicles 15:2-4 KJV)


Isaiah 45:22
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."

sounds like salvation to me.

Simply 'finding God', knowing he exists, will not save you. Salvation is by faith alone. And faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[swordsman1]

even in the movie the "ten Commandments" they got it somewhat right

loot at 5:29-5:46 of this clip.

"I know that His light is in every man"

You would rather believe the words of an inaccurate Hollywood movie than the inspired word of God?

 

[swordsman1]

2 Corinthians 13 - 3. Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.”

The issue is not wether only Paul heard God’s voice inwardly as well as the other believers. The issue is that God does speak inwardly. You try to avoid this clear truth by distracting with your many fallacy arguments and straw man arguments etc., by saying that was just Paul who heard.

We have already thoroughly addressed that verse. It doesn't say Christ spoke in the Corinthians.

Matthew 10 - 20. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”

That doesn't say anything about the Spirit giving the believers a message, it is the Spirit giving a message to the people dragging them through the courts. A unique situation. It says the Spirit will give them the words to say. The words they speak are not their words, they are the Spirit's. This is nothing to do with God speaking a message to believers through their hearts as you claim.

John 6 - 45. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

This is not speaking about extra-biblical revelations.

"Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."​

People are taught of God when they hear and read the scripture.

1 Peter 1 - 11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”

That verse is referring to OT prophets!

“ Ephesians 4:15-23 KJV “But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 21. If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;”

Nothing about extra-biblical revelations there.

You have still not supplied a single scripture that say God gives us extra-biblical revelations.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The only person of the Trinity that indwells believers is the Holy Spirit. Scripture makes that quite clear.

You had your error here corrected way back in this thread with many scriptures.

here's a few to remind you and you sound like a Oneness belief which I and many believers reject. I believe the Trinity understanding.


2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son"

2 John 1:9
"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."

John 14:23
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him"

1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one"

Jesus Christ was in the water and we read of the Father and the Holy Ghost,

Luke 3:22

"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

and the warning...

1 John 4:2

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"


1 John 4:3
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

the Father did not come in the flesh and die on the cross nor did the Holy Ghost we read that the Son of God, Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

those who taught that the Father came in the flesh and suffered and died on the cross taught an ancient heresy called "Patripassianism".

 

[LoveofTruth]

I said

LoveofTruth said: ↑

The anointing teaches all things they have no need that any man should teach them.

Then you said,

If teachers are not necessary then why did God give humans the gift of teaching?

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers,​

​

Your issue is with Johns words when he said we have no need that any man should teach us.

1 John 2:27
"But the anointing [endowment of the Spirit] which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

I understand this to mean that we do not need natural men in the flesh who use their carnal reasoning and excellency of speech and human wisdom to try and figure out the spiritual truth of God. They run into all sorts of errors this way, in error of the law and forms and natural understanding and the things of God are hidden from them.

But we do listen to the "new man in Christ". Jesus Christ is the head of the body of Christ and every member is effectually worked in by Jesus Christ (Ephesians 4:15,16, Hebrews 13:20,231 KJV). From the body edifying itself in love we see God gave GIFTS unto men such as "apostles, prophets, evangelist pastors and teachers.". Yes, there are teachers who are made so by the Spirit of God. And they also need to have the leading of the Spirit to understand all things. The anointing teaches them all things as well and even though they are different in their teaching than a prophet gift.They are still to be led by the Spirit and wait on their teaching as God leads. They have already learned and can bring out of thier treasures things from God. But a Prophet speaks under immediate unction things that are present from God. Both must be in the Spirit but the teacher can speak truth he already has .

When the Word of Christ dwells in us richly then they can teach one another.

"13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."(1 Cor 2:13 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

The verb to shine doesn't necessarily mean the subject of the verb is the source of light. eg. "John shined the light into the room". (John is not the source of light).

The "shined in our hearts" is directly connected to the next clause "TO give the light of the knowledge", making it obvious that the light God shined into our hearts is the light of knowledge of Christ. There is only one light spoken of in this passage, not two. The light of the gospel is the treasure IN earthen vessels, not the light of Christ.

You confound yourself over and over. God shines in the hearts that light he shines is the good news of Christ this light is the light of life, the light that is in them and God is the one who directly shines and gives this light to the HEARTS. The key part is that God shined in their HEARTS. This shows the inward reality.

This is inward and their inward conscience also bears witness as Paul said previously

"..but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."(2 Cor 4:2 KJV)

This is inward in their conscience and hearts and this is all in the sight of God. This shows that God works in the hearts and searches the hearts and knows what is in men . He desireth truth in the inward part and n the hidden part he makes men to know wisdom. These are the secrets of men and the mystery of this great treasure that men have in earthen vessels is hidden from you as you have shown in all your words here.

Also the inward part in their mind is also referred to.

"4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them...6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

they have the manifestation of truth , or the revealing of truth that that God works in them. They also have their minds affected and their hearts. Christ in them is the free gift Jesus Chjrist purchased for all men through His work on the cross (Romans 5). This gift of righteousness is connected to believers salvation and new birth in Christ, and in righteousness. The righteousness of God also is in our hearts in Christ. The good news of Christ is as light that shines in a dark place, as light that illuminates our path. This light is in His seed, and word. Light is sown to the righteous.

The "image of God" is also a important phrase there. When a person is born again by the word of God in their spirit. They are a new creation and inwardly alive where the life of Christ dwells in their hearts. They are also born after the image of him that created them. They live in the new man, the inner man.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

Ephesians 4:23,24
"23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

 

[LoveofTruth]

"Bearing witness of the Light" does not mean that light was in John. It means he told people about Jesus.

I never said John was the true Light, scripture tells us he wasn't

"4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John...8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light."

But we see that the Word was God and the word is "him" vs 3 and "in Him" was life,and the life was the light of men. This light shines in darkness, Notice the words "IN" darkness. Men's hearts are dark and in darkness we read that their hearts are darkness. So as God moved upon the face of the deep in Genesis he moves upon the hearts of men and His light reproves all men in the first shining of this light. But if men love darkness rather than light they run from this light in their hearts and their foolish hearts become more dark. If the light that is in them be darkness HOW GREAT is that Darkness. They do not come to the light, their hearts do not receive the word and the devil blinds their minds lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ should shine through God working in them in their hearts.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The very words you quote show your error - "they may see your good works". The light that other people see are a believers good works. Notice it says "your light", not God's light or Christ's light.

No your error is shown here.

When a believer shines forth the light having God work in him. He is "OF" God a child "OF" God. He is in Christ and part of the new man.

It says let your light so shine because our light is in Christ we are children of light, we put on the armour of light and God works in us to will and to do. God is light and we are children of light. So it is our light that men see which comes from our heart for out of the abundance of the heart the actions and mouth speak. But notice that they may "glorify your father. God the father gets the glory, for all is worked in him and through him. We can do nothing of ourself. Paul would say similar when he said

Galatians 2:20
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Colossians 1:29
"Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily."

John 3:21
"But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."


Also You didn't quote the rest of my words here, I said.

God is the one who works in all to make them perfect unto every good work. Clearly this light come s from within and shines outward seen by our good works which are worked in God.Here are a few verses to prove that our good works come from God who is light working IN us.

"20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."(Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV)

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

1 Corinthians 4:7 KJV
"..and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"

Jesus said

John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.