The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

[swordsman1]

Many see these things I have shown from the past and today.

In fact, I was at a gathering of brothers in Christ today and I shared this very teaching from Romans 10 and Deuteronomy to them and they saw it clearly and rejoiced. One brother was excited about it. He listened and heard what was shown in scripture. I have shown this to others and they see it as well. Some may not see it as clearly, and I have to show them slowly and verse by verse. But the truth of it is so clear.

That was not the Holy Spirit teaching your listeners, it was you teaching them. Why does the Holy Spirit teach you a particular meaning of a passage, but teaches all other respected Christian expositors a completely different meaning? That would make the Holy Spirit a liar. Isn't a more likely explanation that it is not the Holy Spirit teaching you at all, but more likely a case of "our beloved brother Paul...in all his letters... in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures" (2 Peter 3:15-16)

There have been many n history who hadn't seen many things in the bible. When Wycliff and Huss and Luther spoke of certain truths from scripture many of these things were not seen for a long time. They would have heard similar attacks upon them as you do to me in saying that they were not in line with the common catholic commentators of the day.

Sorry to pour ice on your ego, but you are no pioneering Reformer. Their teachings were verified to be true using the basic principles of bible interpretation. Your teachings defy those principles.

 

[swordsman1]

if he spoke in Paul he also spoke and taught them.

That is a non-sequitur. Just because Christ spoke in the apostle Paul, doesn't mean he also speaks in others. Christ spoke in and through apostles because they were his authorized spokesmen.

Luke 10:16 "“The one who listens to you listens to Me,"

2 Peter 3:2 "and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

1 Cor 14:37 "let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment."

1 Thes 2:13 "when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God,"

1 Thes 4:15 "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord...."​

In 2 Cor 13:3 the Corinthians were seeking proof that Christ was speaking in Paul "Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me....". And thus evidence he was an apostle, an authorized spokesman of Christ. If Christ was already speaking in all the Corinthians, how could Christ speaking in Paul be evidence of his apostleship?

When he says that Christ spoke in him and was mighty in them also. This is clearly saying that he spoke in them and through them also.

It says nothing of the sort. There is no "also". You are adding to scripture. It says:

"Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.". ​

"Mighty in you" does not mean speak in you. Paul was referring to the demonstrations of miraculous power Christ had performed in them. Dunateó is the verb form of dunamis, the power to perform miracles (1 Cor 12:10), one of the many spiritual gifts which the Corinthians were well endowed. Paul says more about this power in the very next verse.

"For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power (dunamis) of God toward you." (2 Cor 13:4)​

If Jesus Christ is in all believers do you not think he speaks in them and they to him? When you pray in your heart do you think you are talking to God? Or is this a fiction and you don't really think God can hear you and respond? God speaks in that still small voice in the heart. I have heard him many many many many times. This is the normal christian life for those who walk in the light of Christ.

God doesn't speak to us via inner feelings in our hearts. There is not a single verse that says that. He speaks to us by scripture - My sheep hear my voice. There numerous verses that tell us God's voice is scripture.

Psalm 103:20 "Mighty in strength, who perform His word, obeying the voice of His word!"

Judges 2:20 "So the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He said, “Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to my voice"

2 Kings 18:12 "because they did not obey the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed His covenant, even all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded;

Psalm 106:24-25 "They did not believe in His word, but grumbled in their tents; they did not listen to the voice of the Lord."

Jer 9:13 "The Lord said, “Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it".

Deut 13:18 "if you will listen to the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all His commandments"

Deut 15:5 "if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all this commandment"

Deut 26:14 "I have listened to the voice of the Lord my God; I have done according to all that You have commanded me."

Ex 19:5 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant"

Ex 23:21 "But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. " (this is Moses speaking)

Dan 9:10 "nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets."

Daniel 9:11 "Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice;"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will fear the Lord and serve Him, and listen to His voice and not rebel against the command of the Lord"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will not listen to the voice of the Lord, but rebel against the command of the Lord,"

Jer 11:3-4 "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Cursed is the man who does not heed the words of this covenant which I commanded your forefathers ..., saying, ‘Listen to My voice, and do according to all which I command you; so you shall be My people"

Jer 26:12-13 "The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and against this city all the words that you have heard. Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the Lord your God".

Jer 40:2-3 "The Lord your God promised this calamity against this place; and the Lord has brought it on and done just as He promised. Because you people sinned against the Lord and did not listen to His voice, therefore this thing has happened to you".

Psalm 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.​

"4 Abide in me, and I in you...7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you."(John 15:4,7 KJV)

Where Jesus is in us he speaks his word also in us. Paul showed that Christ spoke in him. This should be enough of an evidence.

Again your proof text says nothing of the sort. The verse says nothing about Jesus "speaking words in us". You do this all the time, quote a verse and then claim it says something completely different to what it actually says. That is the fallacy of eisegesis. The verse says "my words abide in you". Jesus was referring to the words he spoke to the disciples.

 

[swordsman1]

No it means just what it means. And even if we take your interpretation, to hold back the truth or prevent the truth.

It's not my interpretation. That is the meaning of the word as quoted from a lexicon.

This would apply also, they hold back the truth of God, the light of Christ from shining in their heart by their unbelief and hatred of the light.

They hold back the truth. But that truth is not Christ as you claim. You said you arrived at that conclusion because another verse says Christ is 'the Way, the Truth and the Life', and we can therefore substitute 'the truth' here with Christ. Jesus is also called 'the Way'. Does that mean we also substitute any instance of the words 'the way' with Jesus?.....

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way,
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is Jesus,

And when he saw a fig tree in the way,
And when he saw a fig tree in Jesus,

And many spread their garments in the way
And many spread their garments in Jesus

Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by Jesus.​

What an crazy method of interpreting scripture.

 

[swordsman1]

Read Hebrews 11 again and verses like this

The fathers of the faith were not heathens. They walked and talked with God, and believed him. And their faith was accounted for righteousness.

Isaiah 45:22

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."

If they are looking unto the Lord, they are not heathens. They must have known about him first.

Romans 10:12, 13
"12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

They are only saved if they call upon the name of the Lord. They can't call on Him unless they have heard about him. (v14)

Romans 3:29
"Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:"

Now read the next verse:

"Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
​

They need to believe the gospel first.

"3 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."(Romans 2:13-16 KJV)

Which means the Gentiles are just as guilty of breaking the law in their hearts as the Jews are of breaking the law of Moses. Unless the Gentiles hear and believe the gospel they are condemned.

"26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring...

"Find him" doesn't mean saved. Paul is talking about finding out that God exists. Knowing that God exists is not enough to save someone.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."(Acts 17:26-28, 30,31 KJV)

'winked at' doesn't mean let off the hook, it means not to notice. Paul makes it clear in Rom 2:12 that those who have sinned without the law shall also perish without the law. Before Christ salvation was of the Jews only, and so God let the gentiles and pagans do their own thing. But now that the gospel is offered to them also, they must repent and turn to Christ.

 

[swordsman1]

You seem to think that you have eternal life in the scriptures and yet do not claim to hear Gods voice immediately in your heart. Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and he knows them.

Hearing God's voice is not listening to inner feelings in your heart. There is not a single verse that says that. God's "voice" is scripture as I have already demonstrated from multiple verses.

Your teaching is dangerous if you say that Jesus is not the Christ and instead say the Holy Ghost is the Christ.

I have never said that.

 

[swordsman1]

1 John 2:8. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him...15. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”

That verse doesn't say the light is in people's hearts. All you have done is highlight every instance of the word 'in' when not one of them is referring to the light being "in" you. If you had read the verse carefully it would tell you the light is external.

1 John 2:8. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him...​

If a person is abiding IN the light, that light is outside of them illuminating the way so they don't stumble. Not inside.

15. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”

And where is that love

Romans 5:5. And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.”

Love is not light.

2 Corinthians 4:6,7 “ For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.”

The light here is not Christ, v4 and v6 tell us the light is the gospel.

v4 the light of the glorious gospel of Christ

v6 the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

The gospel is the treasure within us.

1 John 1:5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.”

And God dwells IN all believers

The 'light' in 1 John 1:5 is not actual light, it is a metaphor righteousness. We can tell that from the next verse:

v6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"​

"Walk in darkness" does not mean walking around in the middle of the night! It is a metaphor for living in sin. If darkness is a metaphor for sin, then light is a metaphor for righteousness.


It is the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers, not all 3 persons of the Trinity.

 

[swordsman1]

The Pharisees had scripture and yet did not hear God’s voice as Jesus said to them. They did not hear His word in thier hearts or have his word abiding in thier hearts.

John 5:37-39 “And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”

So just reading scripture doesn’t mean you hear God’s voice.

No you have to have to have an "honest and good heart" (Luke 8:15) before God's word abides in you. Something the pharisees lacked.

And what iof all the ones who cannot read or who do not have scripture. What off all the deaf dumb and blind people. Or regarded people, or young children and those who have had physical disabilities that make them unable to understand even human language?

You need to see thstvGod’s mercies are over all his works and all the works in many ways.

The deaf can read. The blind can listen.

Young children, and those with mental disabilities, are excused because they do not understand their conscience speaking to them. There comes an age when young people recognize their God-given conscience telling them right from wrong, and willfully disobey it. It is called the age of accountability.

 

[swordsman1]

Your correction,

Genesis 4:26. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”

They had no scripture yet, they did not know the names”Jesus” yet, they did not know the finished work of Jrdus yet. But they could still call upon the name of the Lord.

Name means character or authority.

You are plainly wrong. Paul was not speaking about Old Testament times in Romans 10. He uses present and future tenses. He is referring to people in the current dispensation. The "Lord" in Romans 10:13 is referring to the "Lord Jesus" v9.

 

[swordsman1]

I would apply this section of scripture against your distortion of scripture.

In fact, Peter says

"15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,"(2 Peter 3:15,`16 KJV)

The wisdom I speak of is the exact wisdom Paul spoke of and the way I understand is the exact way Paul wrote for us to understand. As Paul said

"7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom...10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: ...
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

This is how I have been directing all men to understand scripture in my entire post.

The wisdom that was given to the apostle Paul was the God-given wisdom to write scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You do not have that ability. Your words are not inspired, they are man's wisdom, and are demonstrably wrong.

But you on the other hand do not direct men to hear Gods voice and have the Spirit teach them in the spirit and speak to their heart and to have God shine His light in them and open their understanding. You stress more intellectual wisdom of men in reading other men's words and taking words from other m men and Hebrew and Greek meanings as your case as if you could simply understand spiritual truth by the meanings of words alone and not to hear God speak in you? Or teach in you. If God is in us he makes us perfect and shines in us and speaks His word in us and this is through Jesus Christ who dwells in us and by the Holy Spirit that is in us as well..

I certainly do direct people to hear God's voice. I urge them to do so. And to rightly divide it, with the help of God's people with the spiritual gift of teaching if necessary.

If the Spirit was teaching you the truth with your strange interpretations, he would be teaching the same to other Christian expositors. But none of them agree with you. This proves that it is not the Spirit teaching you, but rather your own 'wisdom'.

 

[swordsman1]

When I say the Light "lighteth" every man and when i say the light is in us. I refer to God who is light and when He is in us he shines His light to us, upon us, in us, with us. We are not God. If I say God dwells in me I am not saying i am God. But God in us speaks His word and shines His light and empowers us with His power. We are strengthened with might in the inner man by God. God works in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work.

We read of the

light e God

the truth OF God

the word OF God

the power OF God

the kingdom OF God

the Leading OF God

Manifestation OF God

Love OF God

The gift OF GOD

and more...

All these are from or "OF" God and His glory in us. This is from His grace that works in all believers and manifest Hos life and power and truth and love and word and light and many other aspects of the glory of God.

The words "God is light" is as clear as a sunny day to those who walk in that light. God who is light shines His glorious light in us and upon our spiritual man and we can see and move and be empowered in this light. We are called children of light, and we put on the armour of light we have the light of life. The light of the glorious good news of Christ shines in us. It is Good news what Christ has done on the cross and in his burrial and resurrection, and also good news in our hearts as we receive Jesus Christ in us..

We see by His light. In His light we see light. He sends forth His light to lead us.

You still haven't shown from scripture where it says the light of Christ is "in" us. Scripture tells us plainly that the light of Christ is an external light, as I have shown from numerous verses.

This section is clear to the unbiased reader, but not to clear to the natural man.

"3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."(1 Johbn 1:3-7 KJV)

This does not say the light is in us. It says we walk in the light so the light must be external to us.

If God is light and he is in us then the light is in us, this is a certain truth.

Only the Holy Spirit dwells in us. The Holy Spirit is never described as light.

And Peter also knew of this "marvelous light" that we are in and that is in us.

"9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;"(1 Peter 1:9 KJV)

Read it again carefully. We step "out of darkness and into his marvellous light". It does not say his light is inside us. The light is external.

 

[swordsman1]

Romans 10 has already been shown clearly that Paul refers to Deuteronomy 30 using this verse and this shows that Christ Word speaks in their heart. This was way back before Jesus Christ was known in the flesh. This was even before they had the scriptures as the context of Deuteronomy 30 shows.

I doubt if anyone believes your unique interpretation of Rom 10 which I have shown to be false and which no other commentator agrees with. Verse 8 says "which we preach", clearly telling us 'the word' referred to here is the gospel message the apostles preached, not an inner word spoken by a 'divine preacher'.

Rom 10:8 was just one of 8 verses that I quoted which shows that God's word enters the heart by preaching, not from a inner voice within us. You never commented on those. Are you going to try and wriggle out of these as well?

Luke 8:15 "As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience."

Matt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Matt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1 Peter 1:25 And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.​

also we read of the "word of God" coming to the prophets. This was not coming to them in a book but in their hearts as we read

"The word of the Lord which came to Jeremiah the prophet against the Gentiles;"(Jeremiah 46:1 KJV)

When God's word came to the prophets and men who spoke that word. God, the divine preqacher spoke directly through them. We see this in many examples of God the divine preacher preaching through men in the fist person.

Ezekiel 12:25
For I am the Lord: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord God."

Now if men walked by the prophet and the prophet said "I am the Lord". Would some look at the prophet and say, "what? who do you think you are? your not God?". But Gods word came to them and they spoke first Person from God and through His power and work.

That was only true of the prophets, whom God spoke to directly and and who then recited those words in the form "Thus says the Lord....". That is not the case with believers today.

 

[LoveofTruth]

but teaches all other respected Christian expositors a completely different meaning?

You error again as you have so much in this post.

Part of your problem here is that you do not hear God's voice inwardly (by your own admission) and so you rush off to men and commentaries and your human reasoning to find answers. I am not saying we cannot read and hear from other people. But this is not how all believers are taught in the primary rule ( to find out what the primary rule is read my first post again).

And in doing this you have "respect" for men. This is sin as scripture shows.

Your correction...

James 2:1
"My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons."

James 2:1
"9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."

Romans 2:11
"For there is no respect of persons with God."

Yes, the respect James refers to here is to give such false favoritism and to be partial towards those who seem to be more in a higher area of life with the nice clothing and prestiege etc. Similar respect in error can be given to men who we put above others who we see as poor in scriptural commentary as some those see as higher.

That would make the Holy Spirit a liar.

What a horrible thing to say or even imply. What because my understanding could easily rebuke the few commentaries you bring up you immediately assume that i am wrong and that the Holy Ghost would be lying???? I use scripture solidly in my presentation of the truth I speak.

Sorry to pour ice on your ego, but you are no pioneering Reformer.

You have no idea who i am and the work of the Lord I have been called into and done. You speak from your own false "respect" of persons of ancient times. Some put men above that which is written and others put men in such an exalted place that they feel none could even come close to them in ministry. But this is a wrong way to even look at any believer or men of the past. It is Gd that works in all true believers and His work is mighty no matter what some achieve in regards to others.

I do call for a total reform of man made religious forms today that believers have been bound up in for centuries and unto God's order and body edification in Christ as he works in all believers ( Ephesians 4:15,16 KJV)

Do you go to a religious form of man, unbiblically called " a church" with a man over all called "the Pastor" where all sit and face forward and look at the back of eachothers heads and are directed to the man exalted on a platform or "altar: who is exalted over all and dominates the gatherings?

If so I call for a total reform of this order unto God's order. All those things are not found in scripture and hinder the body of Christ. If you are in such a religious form I would show you how almost everything you do from the time you walk up to t a large man made structure unbiblically called "a church" until the time all leave and shake the pastors" hand is wrong and unbiblical and hinders the order of God and many times quenches the Spirit.

I have been in the work of the Lord for about 30 years and seem many churches planted in homes and worked with many other churches and brothers and sister. Street preaching and teaching with evangelism is also a large part of the work. But this is far to much to discuss now.

and I am not seeking to speak of myself, but only the truth and things God gives me and sends me to speak of.

 

[swordsman1]

and so in your confusing doctrine, God cannot give His word to any who cannot "read" or "hear" a preacher physically?

How does God reach the deaf, dumb and blind and retarded? and those who are physicaly unable to understand or leave their bed in a room?

That is what scripture clearly says in the verses I just quoted. Are you saying scripture is wrong?

The deaf can read. The blind can hear. If there are sinful adults have never heard the gospel and are unable to do so for whatever reason, then they are in the same boat as the heathen who never hear the gospel. They have sinned knowing it was wrong to do so, and must face the consequences of their actions. But there is only a tiny percentage of people in this world today who go through their lives without ever hearing the gospel.

How did God reach Abraham, Noah, Enoch, Abel, etc without the scriptures of men preaching to them?

God spoke to them directly.

Genesis 17:9 And God said unto Abraham
Genesis 17:15 And God said unto Abraham,
Genesis 18:13 And the Lord said unto Abraham,
Genesis 21:12 And God said unto Abraham
etc

Genesis 6:13 And God said unto Noah
Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said unto Noah
Genesis 8:15 And God spake unto Noah, saying,
Genesis 9:8 And God spake unto Noah,
Genesis 9:17 And God said unto Noah,
etc

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied

God also spoke directly to the first generations of humans, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel as the early chapters of Genesis clearly shows.

 

[LoveofTruth]

That is a non-sequitur. Just because Christ spoke in the apostle Paul, doesn't mean he also speaks in others. Christ spoke in and through apostles because they were his authorized spokesmen.

While we can agree that men like Paul and Peter and John and others were given specific ministries to write scripture and not all were given such a ministry, even the other apostles, this by no means shows that others could not have the word of God in them and that the word of God could not come out of them also.

And when Paul talked of Christ speaking in him which in them was mighty, he is referring to Jesus Christ in them vs 13:5. Do you suppose that if Jesus Christ is in believers that he does not speak to them? If they pray and he hears do not all believers expect an answer from him Jesus he speaks in all believers. Jesus said my sheep hear my voice. They hear in their hearts. Paul head in his heart as well.

We see that they did have the word of God come out from them as well in scripture. And in this passage Paul is implying that other churches also had the word of God come out from them

"36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?"(1 Cor 14:36 KJV)

They also spoke forth Gods word in prophecy and through apostles and prophets and teachers and evangelist and pastors.

"29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."(1 Cor 14:29-33 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

If Christ was already speaking in all the Corinthians, how could Christ speaking in Paul be evidence of his apostleship?

Paul didn't say that Christ speaking in him was evidence of His apostleship specifically. He said that for them or him to know that Jesus Christ was in them, was evidence that they are in the faith and not reprobates,

"5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates."(2 Cor 13:5 KJV)

Paul even says "not that we should appear approved"

"7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates."(2 Cor 13:5 KJV)

the evidence of Paul's apostleship is in other places, He says

"2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord."(1 Cor 9:2 KJV)

 

[swordsman1]

No you are wrong again,

'...but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

This "manifestation of truth". Is inward in the heart and minds of men. The truth is the same truth some hold in unrighteousness. It is the word of truth and Christ who sines in them. When we commend ourselves to them, this is done in the sight of God. We witness to that of God shining in them and the word we speak bears witness with them and we appeal also to their "conscience". The conscience means "with knowledge". They have that knowledge inwardly as God has already shown it unto them, for that which may be known of God is "Manifest" in them. But we commend or "introduce and exhibit" by the manifestation , or revealing of truth in their conscience. This is a deep inward witness that is in the sight of God in their hearts and minds.

Wrong again. The 'manifestation of the truth" in v2 is Paul's ministry, the preaching of the gospel. Not an inner feeling in the heart.

v1-5
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.​

As I said the "light" in this passage is the glorious gospel as it clearly says. Not Christ himself or anything else.

We read of Christ dwelling in the heart by faith. And Christ in you the hope of glory.

Christ dwells in the heart by faith, as a result of the Spirit in the inner man. As the verse previous to that makes clear.

Eph 3:16-17 "That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;​

"that" or "so that" (other versions) indicates that Christ in your hearts is a result of the Spirit in the inner man.

"Christ in you" is the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, as Rom 8:9-10 and many other passages make clear.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you , ​

"6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

first notice that it is God who sines in our hearts God is light and God dwells in us. So whatever light comes from him is of him and affects our spiritual man.

"For God,...hath shined in our hearts,"

The light that God shines in our hearts is the "light of the knowledge of Christ", as your quote clearly shows.

This light gives us knowledge of Jesus Christ as well and we can know the truth of his incarnation and the truth of his being in us.

No, it doesn't say that. You are deliberately twisting the words. It says God gives us the light of knowledge. It does not say 'the light gives us knowledge'. The light is the knowledge of Christ.

 

[LoveofTruth]

It says nothing of the sort. There is no "also". You are adding to scripture. It says:

"Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.". ​

"Mighty in you" does not mean speak in you. Paul was referring to the demonstrations of miraculous power Christ had performed in them. Dunateó is the verb form of dunamis, the power to perform miracles (1 Cor 12:10), one of the many spiritual gifts which the Corinthians were well endowed. Paul says more about this power in the very next verse.

Paul said Christ spoke in him and he showed clearly that God was speaking in them in many ways.

When Paul said Christ speaks in him. Paul was not specifically talking about his "writing scrpture", Paul would say when he was referring to "writing things like this

"37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."(1 Cor 14:37 KJV)

But when Christ was "speaking" in Paul, Paul also could preach that word given, and Paul also could prophesy from that inward revelation and speaking, and Paul could speak in tongues from that inward power and speaking of Christ . Paul also prayed for a door of utterance given to him and others to speak forth the way he ought to.

God speaks forth prophecy and gives all believers revelation and understanding as they seek him. The Holy Ghost teaches believers in the spirit. This is not to their natural ear, even if they read scripture the real teaching is in spirit and inward. The anointing teaches all things they have no need that any man should teach them.

Do you suppose that the teaching of the Spirit does not use words to their inner man and inner ear? Do you suppose that when the Holy Ghost teaches this is not somehow understandable as words?

"13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."( 1 Cor 2"13 KJV)

We know that the Holy Ghost speaks in words that men understand. This is also How he speaks in our hearts, in our spirit as well as we can see from scripture

"As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."(Acts 13:2 KJV)

Here we don't know who said these words from the Holy Ghost. But He was speaking in some of them and they spoke forth that word.

The speaking that men do is by God in them. We already saw this possibility in Matthew 10 where Jesus said it is not you who speak but the Spirit of your father which speaketh in you. This also is shown to the Corinthians in their spiritual utterances by the Spirit. These utterances can come forth as doctrine, prophecy, revelation, wisdom, knowledge tongues exhortation , teaching , preaching etc.

This is your confusion. Here are a few verses to correct you again (and all these diving speaking from the Spirit are for today as well.

"2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."(1 Cor 14:2,3 KJV)

"3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."(1 Cor 12:3 KJV)

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance"(Acts 2:4 KJV)

"That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;"(1 Cor 1:5 KJV)

"24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."(1 Cor 14:24,25 KJV)

"29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace."(1 Cor 14:29 KJV)

"10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."(1 Peter 4:10,11 KJV)

 

[swordsman1]

"7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."

This treasure is IN earthen vessels. This treasure is in our hearts as the context shows. We know that Jesus Christ is in our hearts through faith and that God dwells in us and shines His light. This treasure in earthen vessels shows where the power comes from. It is of God, not us. So the treasure is where we have power and salvation, "OF GOD". The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation. the light of Christ and the good news of Christ in them. While they have the light they are to believe in the light as Jesus said.

This "treasure" is how God calls all men and draws them. None seek God of their own. But as God shines His light to men's hearts and minds, He is the initiator. This answers the struggle many have about does God make men come to him or do they of their own power and ability come to him. Or where is the first action. It is God who first shines and draws he is the initiator. But he has given this "treasure", this "free gift", to all men. This is seen in many passages I have shown. The treasure was purchased for all men through the work of Jesus Christ in time when he came to the earth. But God was able to give the treasure in earthen vessels as a witness as a seed sown, as the word sown, and as light sown and truth sown because of what Jesus Christ would do in time. So the "excellency of the power" is of God and not of us.

How did any man come to faith since Adam until today if God did not first draw convict call, reveal, shine?

Is it enough for a man to say that he believes what Jesus Christ did outside of him on the cross and resurrection and not have Jesus Christ dwell inside him at the new birth? If a man says he believes and yet is not born again is he saved? Is not the inward life and new birth the only way a man can "see" the kingdom of God. Is not the kingdom of God "within" men.

The gospel that has taken place in time on the earth is shown in 1 Cor 15:1-5. That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and that he was burried and rose again according to the scriptures.

But this work without us does not affect us unless we are born again and have an inward reality. This is where the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God sines unto us

What Jesus Christ did on the cross without us was His work for us . But Paul identifies us with the gospel that happened outwardly by connecting us to the inward reality directly with Christ as he dwells in our heart. From this inward new creation in Christ we are able to live in the mystery of Christ and in him we can do all things


crucified WITH Christ

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ..."

Romans 6:6
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

Burried with Christ

Romans 6:4
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:..."

Colossians 2:12
"Buried with him in baptism,..."

Risen WITH Christ

Colossians 2:12
"...wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with Christ..."

This identification and connection to the death burrial and resurrection of Christ is the power of that gospel in our hearts

We read these things in scripture as well. This is also how we live the gospel and obey the gospel daily.

"10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh."(2 Cor 4:10,11 KJV)

Notice how the life of Jesus is made "manifest" when we die and live in the newness of life. Our old man dies daily and the new man lives daily. This is how we obey the gospel and walk in the gospel daily. This is the power of the gospel and God's inner work in us.

The treasure in earthen vessels (in our hearts) is the "light of the glorious gospel", the "light of the knowledge" of Christ, as the passage clearly tells us. It is not Christ or the light of Christ. That is why Paul calls that treasure 'power'. The gospel is frequently associated with power.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance;

2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:​

This is further unmistakable proof that the 'light' in us in this passage is the glorious gospel, not anything else you suppose.

 

[LoveofTruth]

God doesn't speak to us via inner feelings in our hearts. There is not a single verse that says that. He speaks to us by scripture - My sheep hear my voice. There numerous verses that tell us God's voice is scripture.

Psalm 103:20 "Mighty in strength, who perform His word, obeying the voice of His word!"

Judges 2:20 "So the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He said, “Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to my voice"

2 Kings 18:12 "because they did not obey the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed His covenant, even all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded;

Psalm 106:24-25 "They did not believe in His word, but grumbled in their tents; they did not listen to the voice of the Lord."

Jer 9:13 "The Lord said, “Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it".

Deut 13:18 "if you will listen to the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all His commandments"

Deut 15:5 "if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all this commandment"

Deut 26:14 "I have listened to the voice of the Lord my God; I have done according to all that You have commanded me."

Ex 19:5 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant"

Ex 23:21 "But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. " (this is Moses speaking)

Dan 9:10 "nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets."

Daniel 9:11 "Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice;"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will fear the Lord and serve Him, and listen to His voice and not rebel against the command of the Lord"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will not listen to the voice of the Lord, but rebel against the command of the Lord,"

Jer 11:3-4 "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Cursed is the man who does not heed the words of this covenant which I commanded your forefathers ..., saying, ‘Listen to My voice, and do according to all which I command you; so you shall be My people"

Jer 26:12-13 "The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and against this city all the words that you have heard. Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the Lord your God".

Jer 40:2-3 "The Lord your God promised this calamity against this place; and the Lord has brought it on and done just as He promised. Because you people sinned against the Lord and did not listen to His voice, therefore this thing has happened to you".

Psalm 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.​

you are constantly needing to be corrected. Well, a wise man loves correction and reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

We read

Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Here we know that Abraham did not have scripture yet. So your dogmatic statement that
"God's voice is scripture." Is not correct.

Also the pharisees had scripture and did not hear God's voice or word. They did not have God's word abiding in them, even though they heard Jesus in person and had scripture. He that is of God heareth God's word. They were not of God so they could not hear or know or understand by simply reading scripture or hearing Jesus speak. Jesus said

"43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44... 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."(John 8:43,47 KJV)

John 5:39, 40 KJV
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."

Gods voice speaks to the heart. God searches the heart. Jesus said "they shall all be taught of God". Consider this verse and the words "heard". Where do you suppose the father speaks to them? In the heart and in their spirit as it seems clear.

John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

Yes when men read scripture God can witness the words to their heart and open their understanding to understand the scripture. But this is all done inwardly as he writes His law in their heart. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 3:15
"..it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation."

Deuteronomy 30:17
"But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;...20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life,"

In Dueteronomy 30 we already saw that Paul reveals the mystery here that Christ speaks in them and His word is close to them all. This is the voice of God. Even before the scripture was given. God said the commandment was not hidden from them. He had already written n their hearts similarly as he did to all Gentiles in Romans 2"14,15 KJV.

1 Kings 19:12
"And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."

Proverbs 16:1
"The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord."

The Lord prepares the heart and gives the words.

Genesis 15:4
"And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir."

Here we see that the "word of the Lord came" this was not scripture yet.

1 Samuel 15:10
"Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,"

scripture had been given at this time but God still had His word come to Sammuel and speak in Spirit to Him. God is a spirit and he speaks to our spirit. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit neither can he know them. This speaking here to Sammuel was most likely not an audible voice outside him. But rather to His spirit.

Jeremiah 31:33
"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

Psalm 15:2
"He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart."

Matthew 9:4
"And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?"

If Jesus knows our hearts can he not also speak to our hearts?

Yes he does.

 

[LoveofTruth]

It's not my interpretation. That is the meaning of the word as quoted from a lexicon.



They hold back the truth. But that truth is not Christ as you claim. You said you arrived at that conclusion because another verse says Christ is 'the Way, the Truth and the Life', and we can therefore substitute 'the truth' here with Christ. Jesus is also called 'the Way'. Does that mean we also substitute any instance of the words 'the way' with Jesus?.....

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way,
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is Jesus,

And when he saw a fig tree in the way,
And when he saw a fig tree in Jesus,

And many spread their garments in the way
And many spread their garments in Jesus

Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by Jesus.​

What an crazy method of interpreting scripture.

I was not even implying such a answer as you gave there.

 

[swordsman1]

Walking in the light is to walk in Gods light that shines in us and upon us and to us. But God is light and he dwells in us and so when he shines His light, is it in our hearts. When he speaks His word it is in our hearts. He that is of God heareth God's words. When he works in us through Jesus Christ this is in our hearts.

The light of Christ, the light that we walk in, is an external light. We can only walk "in" a light, if it is external to us. There are dozens of verses that confirm the light of Christ is external. You have not provided a single one that says it is internal.

Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

Isaiah 60: 1-3. Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

John 3:19-21
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved... But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?

John 12:45-47 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Job 22:27-28 Thou shalt make thy prayer unto him, and he shall hear thee, and thou shalt pay thy vows. Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.

Job 25:3 Is there any number of his armies? and upon whom doth not his light arise?

Job 29:3 When his candle shined upon my head, and when by his light I walkedthrough darkness;

Psalm 4:6 Lord, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us.

Psalm 31:16 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant:

Psalm 34:4-6 They looked unto him, and were lightened:

Psalm 43:3 O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.

Psalm 67:1 God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us;

Psalm 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord, inthe light of thy countenance.

Psalm 112:4 Unto the upright there ariseth light in the darkness:

Psalm 119:135 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant;

Proverbs 16:15 In the light of the king's countenance is life

2 Samuel 23: 4. And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sunriseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.

Isaiah 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.

Isaiah 42: 16. And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

Micah 7:8-9 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord shall be a light unto me. I will bear the indignation of the Lord, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.

Luke 1:78-79 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

John 3:20-21 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
​

You and the Quakers are clearly wrong.