THE RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE IS ALWAYS SCRIPTURE "ALONE" 2

[Leaf473]

Think about what you have just said and let me ask you a question. Are the words Jesus has spoken to us in the bible? If you answer yes then you have just disagreed with what you just wrote.

Well, looks like we see it differently.

The Rocky mountains are in the USA. But the Rocky mountains are not the same as the USA.

Jesus' words are in the Bible, Jesus' words are not the same as the Bible.

So regarding Carl's question, I don't think the passage in John refers to the Bible. I think, too, that Jesus probably said some things that aren't recorded in the Bible.

"The words that I have spoken to you" is not the same as "the Bible".

 

[timothyu]

So the gifts have ceased?

As Jesus said, it was all about the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Comforter sent for those who chose the Kingdom over the world of man. What better gift than staying on the narrow path to the Kingdom and in proclaiming that good news, rather than falling to the wayside. However anyone else wanting to modify the Gospel of the Kingdom to pursue other agendas are free to do so will find themselves eventually heading for the wayside and back into the world as shown in the Parable of the Sower. His will, not ours.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Words Jesus has given for our salvation are written in the bible. You did not answer the question asked of you. Are Gods' Word and the words of Jesus written in the bible?

What is written in the Bible is of no value without the Holy Spirit giving understanding.

The Words written on the page are not enough to understand Truth.

Without the Holy Spirit they are not God's Word to the reader.

So the Bible is a dead book or worse without the Holy Spirit.

Therefore it is wrong to use the term the Word of God when presenting texts unless you are under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Given the later day prophet you follow, this is highly unlikely.

All sorts of wrong spirits can present scripture to deceive.

 

[timothyu]

All sorts of wrong spirits can present scripture to deceive.

True unless one remembers what Jesus said the Gospel was and relate everything to the Kingdom of God rather than the will of man as a result.

 

[Carl Emerson]

As Jesus said, it was all about the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Comforter sent for those who chose the Kingdom over the world of man. What better gift than staying on the narrow path to the Kingdom and in proclaiming that good news, rather than falling to the wayside. However anyone else wanting to modify the Gospel of the Kingdom to pursue other agendas are free to do so will find themselves eventually heading for the wayside and back into the world as shown in the Parable of the Sower. His will, not ours.

And the signs of the Kingdom being present where Jesus reigns are...

Luke 7:22
And he answered them, “Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them.

This is the Kingdom in action.

 

[timothyu]

This is the Kingdom in action.

For the Apostles yes. For the average Joe we simply put the will for the Father ahead of our own thus loving all as self. We do as the Way did setting the example, care for each other including enemies rather than seek gain at the expense of others.

 

[Carl Emerson]

For the Apostles yes. For the average Joe we simply put the will for the Father ahead of our own thus loving all as self. We do as the Way did setting the example, care for each other including enemies rather than seek gain at the expense of others.

As I have stepped out in faith and prayed for folks - healings have taken place way beyond what I could ask or think.

I have never gained at the expense of others.

Folks are missing out on the vital life of the Kingdom by believing bad theology.

The following verses were for those who believed - not just the apostles.

14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.

 

[timothyu]

As I have stepped out in faith and prayed for folks - healings have taken place way beyond what I could ask or think.

As you will Carl.. we each serve God in His own ways.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Think about what you have just said and let me ask you a question. Are the words Jesus has spoken to us in the bible? If you answer yes then you have just disagreed with what you just wrote.

Your response...

Well, looks like we see it differently.
The Rocky mountains are in the USA. But the Rocky mountains are not the same as the USA.Jesus' words are in the Bible, Jesus' words are not the same as the Bible. So regarding Carl's question, I don't think the passage in John refers to the Bible. I think, too, that Jesus probably said some things that aren't recorded in the Bible. "The words that I have spoken to you" is not the same as "the Bible".

You simply avoided answering the question asked of you. If you do not want to answer the question asked of you just say so. I did not ask you if the scriptures were God. I asked you are the words Jesus has spoken to us written in the bible. I did not think it was a hard question.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What is written in the Bible is of no value without the Holy Spirit giving understanding. The Words written on the page are not enough to understand Truth. Without the Holy Spirit they are not God's Word to the reader.
So the Bible is a dead book or worse without the Holy Spirit. Therefore it is wrong to use the term the Word of God when presenting texts unless you are under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Given the later day prophet you follow, this is highly unlikely. All sorts of wrong spirits can present scripture to deceive.

I see. So where did I ever write to you that the bible is of value to us without the Holy Spirit being our guide and teacher? If you have never said to you anywhere that the bible is of value to us without Gods' Spirit why are you making arguments again no one is arguing about? You seem to be doing this a lot in your posts to me. This once more only shows to me you did not even bother reading the OP where it is already stated we need Gods' Spirit in understand God's Word. Do you want to discuss the OP now. What do you think it means when I say that "the scriptures are the only rule of faith"?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Not all...

From the OP you said you read in the first paragraph stating the term meanings for the discussion of this OP that "Scripture is the only rule of faith"...

WHAT DO WE MEAN BY GOD'S WORD?
Of course Jesus is the living Word of God *John 1:1-4; 14 but the scriptures are Gods' recorded written Word of God handed down from Jesus, the Apostles and the Prophets, written for our admonition upon who the ends of the world have come (1 Corinthians 10:11) and all scripture is God breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16). So we have Jesus as the living Word of God who has given us His spoken Word of God which we have today as the recorded written Word of God which is scripture. In this OP we are talking about Gods recorded written Word (scripture) as the only rule of faith. Of course no one can know the truth of Gods' Word (scripture) unless God guides and teaches us as we prayerfully pray for His Spirit *John 7:17; John 16:13; John 14:26; John 8:31-36; Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27.

The section above taken from the OP, kind of buries everything you have said here and why I was always asking you if you read the OP? Can we get back to the OP now?

Sorry I am not fobbed off that easily. There is a lot at stake here. Your message condemns billions of believers who do not Worship on Saturday. So I have looked carefully at your presentation of scripture and find flaws that you wont address. For that reason I invite the support of readers that can see the flaws because they do not wear EGW glasses.

What is it in the OP that you feel condemns you and billions of people when only scripture has been shared with you? Is it the OP that says "Scripture is the only rule of faith?" The only way someone would feel condemned by this is if they are not following the scriptures. If you feel that the scriptures shared with you make you feel condemned then why do you think that is, when it is the Spirit of God working through the Word of God that convicts the world of sin and of righteousness and of the judgement to come, and what should we do when we feel the scriptures are condemning us? These are genuine questions I am asking for clarification to help better understand what your saying here. If you could help me by answering these questions it would be helpful to our discussion before getting back on topic to the OP.

Take Care Carl

 

[Leaf473]

Your response...

You simply avoided answering the question asked of you. If you do not want to answer the question asked of you just say so. I did not ask you if the scriptures were God. I asked you are the words Jesus has spoken to us written in the bible. I did not think it was a hard question.

Take Care.

I believe I did answer the question you asked:

Jesus' words are in the Bible...

The answer is Yes, Jesus' words are in the Bible. Or, the words Jesus has spoken to us are in the bible, to use your wording.

However, I disagree with your conclusion: "If you answer yes then you have just disagreed with what you just wrote."

Regarding the passage in question,
"The words that I speak to you"
does not refer to the Bible or all scripture.

And what I mean by that is "The words that I speak to you" is not an exact equivalent of the Bible or all scripture.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I believe I did answer the question you asked:


The answer is Yes, Jesus' words are in the Bible. Or, the words Jesus has spoken to us are in the bible, to use your wording.

However, I disagree with your conclusion: "If you answer yes then you have just disagreed with what you just wrote."

Regarding the passage in question,
"The words that I speak to you"
does not refer to the Bible or all scripture.

And what I mean by that is "The words that I speak to you" is not an exact equivalent of the Bible or all scripture.

You just agreed with me that scripture is Gods' Word.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Nonsense - He was careful not to, and agrees that my claim that your interpretation of the passage is flawed.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Just to be clear, I have never claimed the the Scripture is not inspired by God.

However the scripture in the hands of man is often a weapon of the flesh or worse.

Presenting scripture then and claiming that it is "God's Word" is often used to guilt the reader into agreeing with a theology that condemns the reader.

Romans

8 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

End of story...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nonsense - He was careful not to, and agrees that my claim that your interpretation of the passage is flawed.

In all due respect, it is hard to have a conversation when I ask you questions for both clarification and discussion and you ignore them while expecting me to answer every question you ask me (which I am happy to do as a part of the discussion). Now are you going to seriously claim that the scriptures do not contain the recorded spoken words of God and Jesus and that these written words are not Gods' Word? All through our conversation you have been making arguments that no one has been arguing about because you did not read the OP where everything you claim has already been stated. I reject your post here as not being truthful and it is probably best if we agree to disagree. If you have no scripture to support your view that the scriptures are not the only rule of faith then that is between you and God. If we can get back to the OP now that would be much appreciated.

Take Care.

 

[pescador]

In all due respect, it is hard to have a conversation when I ask you questions for both clarification and discussion and you ignore them while expecting me to answer every question you ask me (which I am happy to do as a part of the discussion). Now are you going to seriously claim that the scriptures do not contain the recorded spoken words of God and Jesus and that these written words are not Gods' Word? All through our conversation you have been making arguments that no one has been arguing about because you did not read the OP where everything you claim has already been stated. I reject your post here as not being truthful and it is probably best if we agree to disagree. If you have no scripture to support your view that the scriptures are not the only rule of faith then that is between you and God. If we can get back to the OP now that would be much appreciated.

Take Care.

Carl is very clear-thinking and right more than 99% of the time.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Just to be clear, I have never claimed the the Scripture is not inspired by God.

However the scripture in the hands of man is often a weapon of the flesh or worse.

Presenting scripture then and claiming that it is "God's Word" is often used to guilt the reader into agreeing with a theology that condemns the reader.

Romans

8 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

End of story...

There is no end of story. Scripture is Gods' recorded written Word and all scripture is God breathed (inspired) meaning it comes from God therefore it is Gods' Word. Now tell me, if we are saved by grace through faith, and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God how can we be saved by not believing what Gods' Word says? - We cannot.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Carl is very clear-thinking and right more than 99% of the time.

I disagree. In this case prove to me that what he is saying is right? What he is teaching is not biblical and is making arguments that no one is arguing about as a distraction that has already been stated in the OP. The topic of this discussion is "the scriptures" not tradition or man made teachings are the only rule of faith.

 

[Leaf473]

You just agreed with me that scripture is Gods' Word.

This recent chain of interactions started with my response to the question Carl asked here:

Does the text of John 6:63 reference the Bible???

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh provides no benefit; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit, and are life.

Yes or No...

And I responded with:

I'm gonna say No.

I don't think "the words that I have spoken to you" is equivalent to the Bible that we have today or all of the scriptures they had available back then.

Saying that Jesus words are in the Bible
isn't the same as saying that
"the words that I have spoken to you" is the same as "the Bible".

Jesus' words are in this poster:

It doesn't follow that John 6 is referring to that poster.