The Return of My Apple Challenge

[Tiberius]

So it would be recognizable and functionable --- in short, so it would be an apple.

Rubbish. Why is it that a fully formed apple wouldn't work if it was one minute old isntead a few hours?

God wants us to be child-like (not child-ish, but child-like).

And yet, when you respond to me with posts like THIS ONE, you don't call that childish?

 

[Split Rock]

I disagree --- on the contrary, it strengthens it. Walking by sight requires evidence --- but walking by faith requires only belief. Therefore a child can walk by faith, w/o having to know all that mumbo-jumbo science beforehand; and God wants us to be child-like (not child-ish, but child-like).

So, God wants us to remain ignorant and innocent. This would explain why He did not want Adam to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge (though not why it was there in the Garden in the first place). But what was the purpose in giving Adam such intelligence, if Adam was not supposed to use it to learn? And what did He want from Adam in the first place? Conversation? About what? How pretty the butterflies looked in the Garden? What deep converstaions were Adam and God supposed to have, when Adam was to remain "child-like" in his wisdom? Why make Adam in His Image and then keep him ignorant and child-like?

I can only guess that God must not be very happy with the United States. Afterall, our strength is based almost entirly on technology. But God must HATE technology. Therefore, he must hate The USA. Why then do Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christians always go on about how God blesses this country?

 

[AV1611VET]

I thought we were referring to you creating an apple in your hand. Are you claiming there is no mass or energy in the universe today?

This is what happens when we get off the subject.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Split Rock Yes... the "correct" answer is that there is no possible evidence of Ex nihilo creation... unless you can measure the total energy and matter of the universe before and after the creation event

You wouldn't have to measure the amount of mass/energy before the Creation Event --- it would be zero.

Interesting. Would the Creator have mass/energy?

 

[AV1611VET]

Interesting. Would the Creator have mass/energy?

My guess is "no" --- none detectable by current technology, anyway.

 

[gaara4158]

Not it's not --- it's cheap rhetoric and diversion tactics on your part. I'd prefer you not say anything if you don't have an answer, or need more clarification.

It's a complete and utter lack of understanding on your part. You wouldn't possibly consider that your "challenge" is anything less than a perfect pearl of wisdom that will "pwn" any of your adversaries. I'm here to tell you that it's nothing of the sort.

The mechanism makes no difference --- whether it was omnipotence, or something else, has nothing to do with this challenge.

Wrong again. If the mechanism is something explainable, I could simply explain it to my friend and get him to believe it that way. Sure, it wouldn't be proof, but it would be great evidence of the event's plausibility.

And I've been down that road before, haven't I?

1. It's your job to try and convince your friend - not mine.
2. Even if I stood in front of your friend and ex nihiloed 100 zillion more apples, would that convince him I ex nihiloed the apple that is in your hand?

I'm not asking you to do the proving. I'm using you as a resource when I do the proving. Is that not allowed? After all, one premise of your question is that seeing is believing. Why else would I bother proving your magic to my friend?

Assuming you even had the authority to do so, and assuming you're friend would wait around, and assuming the apple would stay fresh, not get stolen in the meantime, not get accidentally eaten, etc. You're trying to complicate this on purpose, in my opinion.

You're disagreeing with me for disagreement's sake. The normal procedure following such a sudden, mysterious death is an autopsy. I'd probably be under investigation myself, being around you when you died. I'd be more interested in finding out for myself what had happened, and after I did, I'd tell my friend.

Again, no it doesn't.

Amusing, yet annoying.

At this point, Gaara, I'm not really interested in your replies anymore. You're questions are boring, have nothing to do with this thread, cheap rhetoric, and I'm getting the impression that you're just trying to make me suffer for asking this. I'm going to put you on what I call "virtual ignore" for the rest of this thread.

Have a nice day ---

FSM only knows why I bother with you. I find that you often ignore my posts, presumably because you have no answer for them, and hide behind your claims that I'm using cheap rhetoric without specifying exactly where such incidences occurred. For crying out loud, you can't even get the difference between your and you're right. I'm not deliberately trying to make you suffer; I'm just showing you what's wrong with your question. If you find yourself suffering in the defense of your own thread, I think the fault is your own.

You'll ignore this post, though. But that just means you're a coward and you know you can't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Nathan Poe]

My guess is "no" --- none detectable by current technology, anyway.

So your answer is "yes," then?

 

[AV1611VET]

So your answer is "yes," then?

It'll be "yes" when you guys can build a machine that can do this ---

And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

--- and even then, it'll have to show that He is physical mass/energy. Until then, I'll go with the fact that He is what He says He is --- Spirit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It'll be "yes" when you guys can build a machine that can do this ---

Originally Posted by 2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Perhaps Jesus should have used a machine on these guys

John 9:39 And said the Jesus "into judgement I, into the world, this, came. That the ones no beholding may be beholding, and the ones beholding, blind may be becoming".
41 Said to them the Jesus "if Blind ye were, not ever ye had sin. Now yet, ye are saying that 'we are Beholding', the sin of ye is remaining".

Reve 3:17 That thou are saying that Rich I am, and I have become rich and not yet one need I am having. And not are aware that thou are the weight-calloused and forlorn and poor and Blind and naked.

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps Jesus should have used a machine on these guys

That's the point --- He doesn't need one.

 

[Nathan Poe]

That's the point --- He doesn't need one.

And Heracles didn't need a machine to clean out the Augean stables in one day.

What makes your heroic myths any less mythological than anyone else's?

 

[AV1611VET]

And Heracles didn't need a machine to clean out the Augean stables in one day.

What makes your heroic myths any less mythological than anyone else's?

My God didn't need to perform any chores as an atonement for accidentally killing someone.

 

[Nathan Poe]

My God didn't need to perform any chores as an atonement for accidentally killing someone.

No, your God performs chores as atonement for deliberately killing someone.

Genesis 9:11-15
11: And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12: And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14: And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, your God performs chores as atonement for deliberately killing someone.

Not hardly. When He deliberately kills someone, it's for a good reason.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not hardly. When He deliberately kills someone, it's for a good reason.

Nah. Most times He just allowed "heathens" to spank His people into obedience.

Jeremiah 43:10 Then shalt thou say unto them--Thus, saith Yahweh of hosts, God of Israel--Behold me! sending and fetching Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and I will set his throne over these stones which I have hid,--and he shall spread his canopy over them.

Luke 21:23 "Woe yet to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath on the people, these.

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers,...........

 

[Nathan Poe]

Not hardly. When He deliberately kills someone, it's for a good reason.

The people He kills would tend to disagree.

Most murderers feel at least some regret in the act -- It would take a true sociopath not to.

 

[pgp_protector]

My God didn't need to perform any chores as an atonement for accidentally killing someone.

God has made mistakes , aka Accidents ?

 

[AV1611VET]

The people He kills would tend to disagree.

They'll be resurrected to have it explained to them --- something your science can't do.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

They'll be resurrected to have it explained to them --- something your science can't do.

Hope I am here to see that

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 12:41 `Men Ninevites shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this, and they shall be condemning it/her that they repent/reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Lo! more of Jonah here.

Matt 12:42 `A Queen of the south shall be being aroused/egerqhsetai <1453> (5701) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this, and shall be condemning it/her. That she came out of the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and lo, more of Solomon here!

 

[AV1611VET]

Hope I am here to see that

Either way, you will --- as a spectator, or as a participant.