The Return of My Apple Challenge

[KomissarSteve]

F can also mean FANTASTIC!
So it depends on what you want to see in the letter F; much like the bible.

Very true, unfortunately. For many Christians, the Bible must fit into their narrow definition of it, or it's not worth believing.

 

[Psudopod]

You have a 4.6 billion-year-old 'scar' on an earth that is one day old; presented as evidence of history???

No, I'm not presenting it as anything. You asked me for an event 4.6billion years ago. I gave you the formation of the earth. The list I gave you previously are the things that show the history (the scars if you will) of the earth.

You can claim the Bible shows things like an expanding universe and the internet, but these things are always discovered retrospectively. Nobody took the bible and explained redshift of devolped the web. Scientists made discoveries and then people went "oh look, if you interpret this passage in this way, it could be that the bible was talking about that new discovery!".

Nobody took the bible and made my computer, my car, saved my eyesight, reduced infant and prenatal mortality, imporved life expectancy etc etc etc. Even if the bible does say these things, they're written in a way that cannot be used as a method of modeling and predicting the physical world.

It all comes back to the main point I was making. Even if the earth is 6000 years old poofed into existance, knowing that doesn't help us in any way. You can't use that knowledge to predict anything, becuase all the evidnce and the way things are run contary to that.

 

[tanzanos]

How on earth scientifically illiterate peasants from 2,000 years ago knew more about geology, physics, biology than all the scientists on this planet is beyond my comprehension.

Let us get serious here. Religion has absolutely no business in science. The only exception would be for psychology to study the effects of religion on people.

Some people should grow up and get a life!

 

[shmee]

How on earth scientifically illiterate peasants from 2,000 years ago knew more about geology, physics, biology than all the scientists on this planet is beyond my comprehension.

Let us get serious here. Religion has absolutely no business in science. The only exception would be for psychology to study the effects of religion on people.

Some people should grow up and get a life!

Exactly. Plus, I don't get how an old book that claims to be the word of God, however there's no proof of this (and it's one of many religious texts) trumps observed science. Religion/faith does not trump science in a scientific discussion.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV16VET's contention is that such fossils have all the properties of millions of years of age, but were actually created that way about 6000 years ago.

God did not - (repeat: not) - create fossils.

 

[theFijian]

AV please let me know if you want this posted in a separate thread but I have a question:

Immediately after Adam was created, how old would Adam have understood himself to be?

cheers

 

[shmee]

God did not - (repeat: not) - create fossils.

Agreed.

 

[AV1611VET]

I know that it is hard for you to accept that we aren't all as arrogant as you are. Unlike in your fantasy world, we have to accept the fact that we will not have all the evidence at our disposal immediately. That new technologies, better observations and new occurences will continue to require old ideas to be rethought.

Reality is that we are not infallable, nor do we have all the evidence immediately. That is why people who actually try to live in reality, instead of a fantasy world made up of their dreams, will change old ideas when new facts come to light.

I'll tell you why I don't believe one word of your post, Tom; not because I think you're lying, but because when you spout PR like this out of one side of your keyboard, then out of the other say stuff like, there is no God, it shows a measure of spiritual blindness.

No scientot should say "there is no God", at the same time he's saying "we don't have all the evidence for [God, the Flood, Jesus' resurrection, King Arthur, whatever]".

This is one of the major reasons I tell a scientot to "keep looking".

 

[AV1611VET]

I'd love chapter and verse on that one.

[bible]Job 38:35[/bible]

 

[AV1611VET]

AV please let me know if you want this posted in a separate thread but I have a question:

Immediately after Adam was created, how old would Adam have understood himself to be?

cheers

I don't know --- I'm not sure he even had a concept of "age" until either Cain was born, or he saw a baby animal.

 

[Psudopod]

No scientot should say "there is no God", at the same time he's saying "we don't have all the evidence for [God, the Flood, Jesus' resurrection, King Arthur, whatever]".

This is one of the major reasons I tell a scientot to "keep looking".

I agree no one speak from a scientific point of view should say there is no god. However, it's not just the case that there is no evidnce for the flood. There is no evidence and there are things that exist that could not possible be there if there had been a flood. It's not just that there is no evidence, its that it doesn't make sense to say there was a flood. Christian geologists looked for evidence 200 years ago. All they found were contradictions.

 

[Psudopod]

Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?

That's funny, because I don't see that saying anything about the internet at all. Does the bible predict web2.0? What about IPv6?

 

[theFijian]

I don't know --- I'm not sure he even had a concept of "age" until either Cain was born, or he saw a baby animal.

Why would have had no concept of age until then? The day after he was created would he not have the concept of being aged 1 day (or created age + 1 day)?

 

[AV1611VET]

Enemy Party, here's the 411 on the word "steel" in the King James Bible:

The word should be exactly what it is --- steel.

I checked a couple of the AV1611's predecessors, and here's how They read:

He shall flee from the iron weapon, and the bow of steele shall strike him through.

He shall flee from the yron weapons, and the bow of steele shal strike him through.

He shall flee from the iron weapon, and the bowe of steele shall strike him through.

Checking my 1850 Webster's Dictionary, I found this:

steel

1. Iron combined with a small portion of carbon; iron refined and hardened, used in making instruments, and particularly useful as the material of edged tools. It is called in chimistry [sic], carburet of iron; but this is more usually the denomination of plumbago.

2. figuratively, weapons; particularly, weapons, swords, spears and the like.

The word is correct as it stands.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Enemy Party, here's the 411 on the word "steel" in the King James Bible:

The word should be exactly what it is --- steel.

I checked a couple of the AV1611's predecessors, and here's how They read:







Checking my 1850 Webster's Dictionary, I found this:

steel

1. Iron combined with a small portion of carbon; iron refined and hardened, used in making instruments, and particularly useful as the material of edged tools. It is called in chimistry [sic], carburet of iron; but this is more usually the denomination of plumbago.

2. figuratively, weapons; particularly, weapons, swords, spears and the like.

The word is correct as it stands.

However the original authors of the Bible would not have used the word steel... as they didn't know what steel was!

 

[AV1611VET]

However the original authors of the Bible would not have used the word steel... as they didn't know what steel was!

I agree --- many times they didn't know what they were writing about, but wrote it anyway.

For instance, not one prophet mentions the dispensation of Grace. That's why, in the Old Testament, you see the Messiah so closely associated with the Milennial Kingdom (the 7th Dispensation), and Grace (the 6th Dispensation) not even mentioned.

Even the angels didn't know about it:

[bible]1 Peter 1:12[/bible]

The Jews were expecting the Isaiah 11 / Psalm 72 Messiah, but when Jesus presented His credentials as the Isaiah 53 / Psalm 22 Messiah, they answered with, "Away with Him".

 

[AV1611VET]

Why would have had no concept of age until then? The day after he was created would he not have the concept of being aged 1 day (or created age + 1 day)?

I don't know --- I sure didn't when I was one day old.

 

[Phred]

The word should be exactly what it is --- steel.

Except for all the other translations which say "bronze".

 

[Split Rock]

I don't know --- I sure didn't when I was one day old.

But Adam was created as a fully functioning adult with decades of age "embedded" within by the grace of almighty God. He already knew how to speak as he spoke with God. Could you when you were one day old?

 

[AV1611VET]

But Adam was created as a fully functioning adult with decades of age "embedded" within by the grace of almighty God. He already knew how to speak as he spoke with God. Could you when you were one day old?

Nope --- and I'm sure if Adam asked God how old he was --- God would have told him.