The Restoration of Israel, as Described in the Holy Scriptures

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Rev20

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As Jesus prophesied, there will be wars, earthquakes, diseases and famines at the end of this age.

No, Jesus prophesied those would be fulfilled in his own generation. This is what he actually said:

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you [my Disciples] up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. . . Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matt 24:5-9, 34

All those things were fulfilled in the generation of Christ, exactly like he said.

:)
 
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keras

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Rev20, 'this generation' did see a manifestation of those things and they were conquered and exiled by Rome.
But the Jesus goes on to prophesy about how it will be before He comes again. He answered the disciples double question in Matthew 24:3, first the soon to happen destruction of the Temple, etc and then what we can expect at the end of the age.
As I quote in #920, the allegory of 'birth pangs', is also used in Romans 8 and Isaiah 42.
Are the wars, earthquakes, famines and plagues of our time of no significance?
 
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iamlamad

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You'll need it, if you continue to promote that earthquake craziness on the forum.

I understand you are part of the so-called "Word-of-Faith" movement. Will you please take the time to explain the doctrinal points of that movement?

:)

WOF simply believes the bible enough to practice it. For example, when it is written, "by His stripes we are healed," we believe Jesus carried our sickness when He carried our iniquities. just as the Word says. So if a disease comes, we fight it with the word. For example, have you ever met someone who carries on a conversation with the flu? If not, then you know people who suffer with the flu.

We believe the book of Acts is just as good for doctrine as Romans. So we practice that part of the Word of God also. For example, did you notice that Acts teaches us there is a difference between the Holy Spirit "in" and the Holy Spirit "upon?" Most denominations ignore that difference.

You can call earthquakes crazy if you wish, but one day soon there will be a WORLDWIDE earthquake, unlike anything this world has seen before. It will move every mountain out of its place.
 
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iamlamad

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No, Jesus prophesied those would be fulfilled in his own generation. This is what he actually said:
"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you [my Disciples] up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. . . Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matt 24:5-9, 34
All those things were fulfilled in the generation of Christ, exactly like he said.

:)


:D Ha ha ha! And you thought what I wrote was crazy! You remind me of Foghorn Leghorn's favorite saying. Most of the end times scriptures have gone "right over your head."

When They asked Jesus about the end of the age, that is exactly what Jesus answered - about the end of the age. In case you have not noticed, little has changed since then except Jesus died and then rose again, and Israel as a nation disappeared and then reappeared, and knowledge has increased (exactly as the Old Testament prophets said would happen).

What WILL happen soon is Jesus will come to the air FOR His bride, and you will be left behind, wondering how your end time doctrine was so far off.

May I suggest you read about about Daniel's 69 weeks and how Daniel separated the 70th or last week from the previous 69?
 
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iamlamad

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Rev20, 'this generation' did see a manifestation of those things and they were conquered and exiled by Rome.
But the Jesus goes on to prophesy about how it will be before He comes again. He answered the disciples double question in Matthew 24:3, first the soon to happen destruction of the Temple, etc and then what we can expect at the end of the age.
As I quote in #920, the allegory of 'birth pangs', is also used in Romans 8 and Isaiah 42.
Are the wars, earthquakes, famines and plagues of our time of no significance?

Rev20, it would do you well to believe this!
 
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Rev20

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Rev20, 'this generation' did see a manifestation of those things and they were conquered and exiled by Rome.
But the Jesus goes on to prophesy about how it will be before He comes again. He answered the disciples double question in Matthew 24:3, first the soon to happen destruction of the Temple, etc and then what we can expect at the end of the age.
As I quote in #920, the allegory of 'birth pangs', is also used in Romans 8 and Isaiah 42.
Are the wars, earthquakes, famines and plagues of our time of no significance?

Everything Jesus said to his Disciples in Matthew 24:5-33 was fulfilled in his and their generation because that is when Jesus said they would be fulfilled:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matt 24:34

The fact that we do not understand how each and every one of those prophecies were fulfilled does not give us a license to alter the time context. Jesus said they were to be fulfilled in his generation. It is up to us to determine how they were fulfilled, should we desire to do so. It is irrelevant to our salvation whether we understand them, or not.
.

As I quote in #920, the allegory of 'birth pangs', is also used in Romans 8 and Isaiah 42. Are the wars, earthquakes, famines and plagues of our time of no significance?

In Romans Paul is referring to imminent fulfillment, for example:

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." -- Rom 8:18

"But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." -- Rom 10:18

"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light." -- Rom 13:11-12

"And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen." -- Rom 16:20

Many well-known commentators believe Isaiah 42 is referring to both the return from Babylonian captivity and the later arrival of Christ. Isaiah 42:1, 6-7 is similar to Isaiah 61:1, which Christ read in a synagogue shortly after his anointing. Compare:

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," -- Luke 4:18

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;" -- Isa 61:1 LXX

"Jacob is my servant, I will help him: Israel is my chosen, my soul has accepted him; I have put my Spirit upon him; he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. . . to open the eyes of the blind, to bring the bound and them that sit in darkness out of bonds and the prison-house." -- Isa 42:1, 7 LXX

Notice that it is not about flesh and blood, but Spirit. Here, God names Christ as both Jacob and Israel.

:)
 
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parousia70

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He answered the disciples double question in Matthew 24:3, first the soon to happen destruction of the Temple, etc and then what we can expect at the end of the age.

What age were they asking about the end of and when did that age begin?

A comparison of the synoptic accounts shows that the disciples associated the temple's destruction with the end of the age. The destruction of the temple and the end of the age were synonymous in the apostles minds, and Christ never corrects their understanding:

Matt 24:3
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Mark 13:3
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”

Luke 21:7
7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”

The "These things" in the disciples question = Temples destruction AND end of the Age.

When They asked Jesus about the end of the age, that is exactly what Jesus answered - about the end of the age.

Same Questions for you lamad,
What age were the apostles asking about the end of? When did that age begin?
 
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Rev20

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:D Ha ha ha! And you thought what I wrote was crazy! You remind me of Foghorn Leghorn's favorite saying. Most of the end times scriptures have gone "right over your head."

I am certain you realize that you act very immature, at times (many times.)
.

When They asked Jesus about the end of the age, that is exactly what Jesus answered - about the end of the age.

They were talking about the end of the "Jewish" age--the age of the old covenant--and that ended with the destruction of Jerusalem and the horrible Jewish elements (see 2Pet 3:10,12.) For a better understanding of the word "elements," you need to dig into the Greek. This is the same Greek word translated in other verses:

"Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:" -- Gal 4:3

"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?" -- Gal 4:9

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." -- Col 2:8

"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances," -- Col 2:20

"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." -- Heb 5:12

So, always keep in mind that when Peter talks about the "elements" melting with fervent heat, he is referring to the destruction (elimination) of the gazillion rules and regulations that the Jewish leadership had placed on the Jewish citizens to keep them in bondage, much like the citizens of today are plagued with. Of course, they were under the power of Satan, as are we. For that reason, part of Christ's mission statement was this:

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;" -- Isa 61:1

That is also why the Revelation refers spiritually to Jerusalem as Egypt:

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." -- Rev 11:8

That is also why Paul referred to Jerusalem, directly, as a city of bondage, along with the old covenant that "created it:"

"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." -- Gal 4:22-26

And what happens to those who continue to follow the old covenant?

"Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." -- Gal 4:30-31

Now, that is a scary thought.
.

In case you have not noticed, little has changed since then except Jesus died and then rose again, and Israel as a nation disappeared and then reappeared, and knowledge has increased (exactly as the Old Testament prophets said would happen).

I don't know who those people are in Israel who claim to be Jews. But according to the scripture they are not Jews:

"And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." -- Matt 3:9

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." -- John 8:39

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." -- Rom 2:28-29

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." -- Gal 3:16

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." -- Gal 3:28-29

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." -- Phi 3:3

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" -- 1Pet 2:9

You have to be blind as a bat not to see that.

The chosen children of Israel (1Pet 2:9) founded the Church. Those not blinded by futurism can read about it here:

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye [Gentiles] are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Eph 2:11-22

That is the best representation of the Church that I can find.
.

What WILL happen soon is Jesus will come to the air FOR His bride, and you will be left behind, wondering how your end time doctrine was so far off.

I fear for your soul, and those misguided souls who believe you.
.

May I suggest you read about about Daniel's 69 weeks and how Daniel separated the 70th or last week from the previous 69?

Where can I read about that? It is most certainly not found in the Holy Bible.

:)
 
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Rev20

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WOF simply believes the bible enough to practice it. For example, when it is written, "by His stripes we are healed," we believe Jesus carried our sickness when He carried our iniquities. just as the Word says. So if a disease comes, we fight it with the word. For example, have you ever met someone who carries on a conversation with the flu? If not, then you know people who suffer with the flu.

We believe the book of Acts is just as good for doctrine as Romans. So we practice that part of the Word of God also. For example, did you notice that Acts teaches us there is a difference between the Holy Spirit "in" and the Holy Spirit "upon?" Most denominations ignore that difference.

You can call earthquakes crazy if you wish, but one day soon there will be a WORLDWIDE earthquake, unlike anything this world has seen before. It will move every mountain out of its place.

You can explain why you made this false prophecy to Christ when you bow before him at judgement.

Why do all the false prophets seem to come from the ranks of the futurists? Over the years we have been plagued with the false prophecies of Miller, Russell, Whisenant, Armstrong, Kirban, Lindsey, Van Impe, Hinson, Brubaker, McBirnie, Camping, Robertson, and a myriad of lesser-known (or slightly-) false prophets.

:)
 
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iamlamad

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Everything Jesus said to his Disciples in Matthew 24:5-33 was fulfilled in his and their generation because that is when Jesus said they would be fulfilled:
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matt 24:34
The fact that we do not understand how each and every one of those prophecies were fulfilled does not give us a license to alter the time context. Jesus said they were to be fulfilled in his generation. It is up to us to determine how they were fulfilled, should we desire to do so. It is irrelevant to our salvation whether we understand them, or not.
.



In Romans Paul is referring to imminent fulfillment, for example:
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." -- Rom 8:18
"But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." -- Rom 10:18
"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light." -- Rom 13:11-12
"And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen." -- Rom 16:20
Many well-known commentators believe Isaiah 42 is referring to both the return from Babylonian captivity and the later arrival of Christ. Isaiah 42:1, 6-7 is similar to Isaiah 61:1, which Christ read in a synagogue shortly after his anointing. Compare:
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," -- Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;" -- Isa 61:1 LXX
"Jacob is my servant, I will help him: Israel is my chosen, my soul has accepted him; I have put my Spirit upon him; he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. . . to open the eyes of the blind, to bring the bound and them that sit in darkness out of bonds and the prison-house." -- Isa 42:1, 7 LXX
Notice that it is not about flesh and blood, but Spirit. Here, God names Christ as both Jacob and Israel.

:)


WHICH generation?

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

WHICH generation? "When YOU SHALL SEE ALL THESE THINGS....." Let's start with the parable of the fig tree: ISRAEL. And with what Luke wrote, all the Gentile nations. Israel is back in their Land as a nation once again. That is the Fig tree putting forth leaves. Israel surrounded by Muslin nations are the Gentile nations we are to watch.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

We have NOT SEEN THIS YET, for it is still future.

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We have NOT SEEN THIS YET, for it is still future.

It seems then, that you chose the WRONG generation.
 
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iamlamad

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You can explain why you made this false prophecy to Christ when you bow before him at judgement.

Why do all the false prophets seem to come from the ranks of the futurists? Over the years we have been plagued with the false prophecies of Miller, Russell, Whisenant, Armstrong, Kirban, Lindsey, Van Impe, Hinson, Brubaker, McBirnie, Camping, Robertson, and a myriad of lesser-known (or slightly-) false prophets.

:)

You should repent. I made no prophecy: I simply quoted JOHN about the 6th seal - still in our future. However, I will make one now: all those with false theories (like yours) about the end, WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. Jesus will soon be coming for those WATCHING for His coming and EXPECTING His coming, indeed longing for His coming.
 
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iamlamad

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I am certain you realize that you act very immature, at times (many times.)
.
They were talking about the end of the "Jewish" age--the age of the old covenant--and that ended with the destruction of Jerusalem and the horrible Jewish elements (see 2Pet 3:10,12.) For a better understanding of the word "elements," you need to dig into the Greek. This is the same Greek word translated in other verses:
"Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:" -- Gal 4:3
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?" -- Gal 4:9
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." -- Col 2:8
"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances," -- Col 2:20
"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." -- Heb 5:12
So, always keep in mind that when Peter talks about the "elements" melting with fervent heat, he is referring to the destruction (elimination) of the gazillion rules and regulations that the Jewish leadership had placed on the Jewish citizens to keep them in bondage, much like the citizens of today are plagued with. Of course, they were under the power of Satan, as are we. For that reason, part of Christ's mission statement was this:
"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;" -- Isa 61:1
That is also why the Revelation refers spiritually to Jerusalem as Egypt:
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." -- Rev 11:8
That is also why Paul referred to Jerusalem, directly, as a city of bondage, along with the old covenant that "created it:"
"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." -- Gal 4:22-26
And what happens to those who continue to follow the old covenant?
"Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." -- Gal 4:30-31
Now, that is a scary thought.
.



I don't know who those people are in Israel who claim to be Jews. But according to the scripture they are not Jews:
"And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." -- Matt 3:9
"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." -- John 8:39
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." -- Rom 2:28-29
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." -- Gal 3:16
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." -- Gal 3:28-29
"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." -- Phi 3:3
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" -- 1Pet 2:9
You have to be blind as a bat not to see that.

The chosen children of Israel (1Pet 2:9) founded the Church. Those not blinded by futurism can read about it here:
"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye [Gentiles] are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Eph 2:11-22
That is the best representation of the Church that I can find.
.
I fear for your soul, and those misguided souls who believe you.
.
Where can I read about that? It is most certainly not found in the Holy Bible.

:)

I really do care about those who will be left behind. However, for all those what WILL BE left behind, it will be their own doing. Paul was clear in the timing of his rapture. Of course you can read about the 70th week being separated from the 69 in Daniel 9. But you knew that, you just don't believe it.

Dan 9
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

THEN WHEN?

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

A prince will come and destroy the city: Check: Titus fulfilled this.
So the 70th week by Daniel's OWN WORDS come AFTER the city and sanctuary is destroyed.
 
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Interplanner

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No, the normal reading is the other way around. It's just that the 70th has so many things accomplished by Messiah; that's why it is set off. The destruction of the city is not within it but after.

Many commentators notice that 26b looks away from the week itself, but 27 returns to it by being about the week. The antecedent shifts from Messiah to the 'people of the ruler who will come' at 26b. The events of the destruction and end and war and desolation are not confined to a week in length and are not within that week.

The v27 reference to the covenant and the end of sacrifice are therefore positive, Christian, new covenant, and anticpate the letter to Hebrews in one quick line.
 
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riverrat

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No, the normal reading is the other way around. It's just that the 70th has so many things accomplished by Messiah; that's why it is set off. The destruction of the city is not within it but after.

Many commentators notice that 26b looks away from the week itself, but 27 returns to it by being about the week. The antecedent shifts from Messiah to the 'people of the ruler who will come' at 26b. The events of the destruction and end and war and desolation are not confined to a week in length and are not within that week.

The v27 reference to the covenant and the end of sacrifice are therefore positive, Christian, new covenant, and anticpate the letter to Hebrews in one quick line.
preterist hogwash!
 
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Rev20

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You should repent. I made no prophecy: I simply quoted JOHN about the 6th seal - still in our future. However, I will make one now: all those with false theories (like yours) about the end, WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. Jesus will soon be coming for those WATCHING for His coming and EXPECTING His coming, indeed longing for His coming.

Are you saying you have added NO words to the book of the Revelation with your false interpretations?

:)
 
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Rev20

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I really do care about those who will be left behind. However, for all those what WILL BE left behind, it will be their own doing.

No one will be left behind. We shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ:

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." -- Isa 45:22-23

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." -- Rom 14:10-12

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." -- Rev 20:12
.

Paul was clear in the timing of his rapture.
Paul believed the first resurrection would occur in his own lifetime: at least that is what he believed when he wrote 1st Thessalonians. All one has to do is use a small grammatical tool called "tense" when reading the prophecy, and it becomes crystal clear:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -- 1Th 4:17

Throw away the tense and time context and you can "prove" anything in the Bible, and I do mean anything! Church history is heavily littered with false prophecies, all pushed by futurists who pretended they could interpret prophecy.

Yet, the scripture teaches that prophecy interpretation was restricted to a very special class of people. We know some of them as Jesus Christ, and his Apostles. Even the most celebrated of the Jewish rabbis, lawyers and priests got it all wrong; and the old testament prophets, in many cases, did not understand their own prophecies.

Keep that in mind before believing anyone pretending to predict the future. Better yet, ask 100 "prophecy experts" a key question about a passage in the Revelation, and see how many different interpretations you get. It will most likely be 100, maybe more. LOL!
.

Of course you can read about the 70th week being separated from the 69 in Daniel 9. But you knew that, you just don't believe it.

It is impossible to read it, because it is not there.
.

Dan 9
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

THEN WHEN?

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

A prince will come and destroy the city: Check: Titus fulfilled this.

So, the Messiah arrived at the end of the 69th week, and He confirmed the covenant for one week. That was the end of the 70th week. It is all simple Math, as in, 69 + 1 = 70.

NOW, look what happens NEXT! A prince will come with his people (doesn't say when, just in the future) and they destroy the city and sanctuary.

So, either it is Daniel's 71 weeks, or 72 weeks, or 73, or, so on; or the time allotted for the desolation by the prince and his people was decreed separately. AND GUESS WHAT? IT WAS!!!!

"… and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." -- Dan 9:26

Why were the desolations determined in verse 26? Because they were not determined in verse 24:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." -- Dan 9:24

There is absolutely nothing in the seventy weeks about the desolations or destruction of Jerusalem. Therefore, it is a different prophecy or phase, determined separately. Many scholars call that the "punishment phase."
.

So the 70th week by Daniel's OWN WORDS come AFTER the city and sanctuary is destroyed.

Baloney.

:)
 
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iamlamad

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Are you saying you have added NO words to the book of the Revelation with your false interpretations?

:)

Two things are different about my belief in Revelation and all the rest of the theories presented on this thread as I read them:

1) I actually believe what is written as it is written in Revelation. When it makes good sense in its literal sense, I believe it as literal.

2) I believe it is written in Chronological order.
 
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