Rev20 wrote:
except I cannot ignore the first resurrection for the saints that occurred shortly after the great tribulation of A.D. 70. There is simply too much evidence for it.
Can you elaborate on that?
I somehow missed this question by you, and stumbled across it while revisiting some of the threads. I will begin here, where the Lord is speaking of Israel:
"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me." -- Isa 45:4
"Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there." -- Isa 65:8-9
"And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" -- Luke 18:7-8
Here, Jesus is speaking of the great tribulation which he prophesied to occur within his generation:
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." -- Matt 24:22-24
And shortly after those days were shortened, and before that generation was over, Christ said he would come to gather his elect:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." -- Mark 13:26-27
And here Paul speaks of the elect as the remnant of Israel:
"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." -- Rom 11:5
"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded." -- Rom 11:7
"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes." -- Rom 11:28
Now to sainthood:
"Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;" -- Eph 3:8
If Paul is the least of all saints, where does that leave us? Are we greater than Paul? Equal to Paul? Not me.
Now to the apostles:
"For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men." -- 1Cor 4:9
Last? Last to what? That is an interesting choice of words from the Lord God Almighty (you don't think those are Paul's words, do you?) Maybe they were the last of the inspired writers? The last of the Saints?
And now to the chosen, which includes Paul:
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," -- Eph 1:4-5
Now who else is
holy and
without blame? Try the 144,000 for being without blame:
"These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." -- Rev 14:4-5
Now if they were the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb, who were these
holy priests, some of which (maybe all) sit on thrones of judgement?
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. . . Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." -- Rev 20:4, 6
I tend to believe these, and the 144,000, are the same. We know from the gospels that the thrones of judgement over Israel were given to the disciples; and John personally stated that Christ had made him a king and priest:
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." -- Rev 1:5-6
IP, there are many other passages on this topic, and all point to the Elect, the Saints, the Remnant, the 144,000, the Royal Priesthood, and the chosen few of Israel being one and the same.
