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Featured The Restitution Of All Things

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Unfortunately A.P. Adams, Tentmaker, Peter Hiett and Shana Brown are not scripture.
    I have never found out how people who hate God and reject Him in this life suddenly become God lovers after they have been punished in fire for an indeterminate period. Punishment in this life does not have that effect.
     
  2. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The True Basis Of Redemption

    According to the common idea one's salvation is made to depend almost entirely on his own personal efforts. God has made all necessary provision; He has prepared the feast, spread the table, and sent out the invitation; now if you will accept and persevere you will be saved; but if not, you will be lost; God can do no more for you; He has made all needful provision; now your personal salvation depends entirely on yourself; this is the way the matter is usually put, and thus God is practically left out of the question in the salvation of the individual; each one is taught that his future well-being depends on himself personally; if he will fulfill certain conditions God will do His part, but if he fails in these conditions God can do nothing more for him, and all that he has done will go for naught so far as he personally is concerned. The writer has often heard this idea presented to the people in just this style, and with the utmost emphasis and positiveness; your salvation depends on you, it is for you to say what your eternity shall be, etc., etc. Now while it is true that the sinner has a part to perform in the matter of his salvation (as we will presently notice) yet I believe the above teaching is wrong, and the scripture supposed to warrant it is misapprehended and misapplied; and furthermore such a view entirely ignores that large mass of scripture that makes God able to carry out to a successful completion any work that He has commenced. We have already noticed how positively the Bible declares that God will have His own way in spite of all opposing forces, and Paul declared that he was perfectly confident that "He which had begun a good work would perfect it" (Phil. 1: 6, R.V.). We should remember that the process and completion of the Creative work is as much "of God" as its inception, and we should remember further that God's own honor and credit are at stake in the successful carrying out of His plans; thus does He accept the situation, and hence declares that "for His own sake" He will complete that which He has begun.

    https://www.godfire.net/AP_Adams/tru...n_ap_adams.htm
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    GOD THE FATHER OF MEN

    God is the Father of all men.
    “Have we not all one Father? Hath not one God created us?” Mal. 2:10

    A kind Father will not punish his children but for their good. God is evidently called the Father of all men in the Scriptures, and this is not an unmeaning name; he has the disposition and principles of a Father. He loves with a Father’s love; he watches with a Father’s care; he reproves with a Father’s tenderness; he punishes with a Father’s design. God is the Father of all men; and, therefore, he cannot make mankind endlessly miserable.

    From:

    Simple Salvation Church of God - 100 Scriptures Proofs Tha Jesus Will Save All Mankind
     
  4. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

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    Truly a ‘word’ that bears witness to the heart of a loving father. :oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup:
     
  5. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    The True Basis Of Redemption
    According to the common idea one's salvation is made to depend almost entirely on his own personal efforts. God has made all necessary provision; He has prepared the feast, spread the table, and sent out the invitation; now if you will accept and persevere you will be saved; but if not, you will be lost; God can do no more for you; He has made all needful provision; now your personal salvation depends entirely on yourself; this is the way the matter is usually put, and thus God is practically left out of the question in the salvation of the individual; each one is taught that his future well-being depends on himself personally; if he will fulfill certain conditions God will do His part, but if he fails in these conditions
    God can do nothing more for him, and all that he has done will go for naught so far as he personally is concerned. [TOTALLY FALSE!] The writer has often heard this idea presented to the people in just this style, and with the utmost emphasis and positiveness; your salvation depends on you, it is for you to say what your eternity shall be, etc., etc. [<<<CONTRADICTION>>>]Now while it is true that the sinner has a part to perform in the matter of his salvation (as we will presently notice) yet I believe the above teaching is wrong, and the scripture supposed to warrant it is misapprehended and misapplied; and furthermore such a view entirely ignores that large mass of scripture that makes God able to carry out to a successful completion any work that He has commenced. We have already noticed how positively the Bible declares that God will have His own way in spite of all opposing forces, and Paul declared that he was perfectly confident that "He which had begun a good work would perfect it" (Phil. 1: 6, R.V.). We should remember that the process and completion of the Creative work is as much "of God" as its inception, and we should remember further that God's own honor and credit are at stake in the successful carrying out of His plans; thus does He accept the situation, and hence declares that "for His own sake" He will complete that which He has begun.

    There is a big difference between saying God is unable to do something and saying God chooses NOT to do that something.
    What was God's will before Genesis 7:21-22, Genesis 19:24-25, Exodus 12:29, Exodus 14:28?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  6. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    The feeling's mutual my friend. But it's been good to take a break from CF.

    So can I suggest it's sinners who are the apollumi of God's eye? And through salvation, we can become the apple of His eye, reconciled to Him.
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Shrewd: Our God specializes in sinners. The identical many of us "made sinners" in Adam1 are the many "made righteous" in the Last Adam, the Lord Isous. Our God refuses anything short of losing nothing. The entire apollumi lost in the first reconciled in the Last!

    Every created thing (pan ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added).

    No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off. Saying (legonta). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have legonta (grammatical gender agreeing with panta) present active participle of legw, to say. And to the Lamb (kai twi arniwi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne. -A.T. Robertson-
     
  8. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    How much, if any, of this is quoted from A.T. Robertson? I happen to have both Robertson's "Word Pictures in the New Testament." and his "Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research" And I can't find any of it.
    But I did find this in Robertson's Word Pictures under Romans 8:21 "Not of its own will (ouch hekousa). Common adjective, in N.T. only here and 1Co_9:27. It was due to the effect of man’s sin."
     
  9. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I Know A Man Who Can

    I can't take a heart that's broken, make it over again,
    But I know a man who can.
    I can't take a soul that's sin sick make it white as the snow,
    But I know a man who can.

    Some call him Savior the redeemer of all men,
    I call him Jesus for he's my dearest friend.
    If you feel that no one loves you and your life is out of hand
    I know a man who can.

    I can't walk upon the waters or calm the trouble sea,
    But I know a man who can.
    And I can't cause blind eyes to open or make the lame to walk again,
    But I know a man who can.

    Some call him Savior the redeemer of all men,
    I call him Jesus for he's my dearest friend.
    If you feel no one can help you and your life is out of hand,
    I know a man who can... yes I know a man who can.

    "It is God we want, not heaven; His righteousness, not an imputed one, for our own possession; remission of sin, not letting off; love, not endurance for the sake of another, even if that other be the one loveliest of all."—George MacDonald-
     
  10. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I too know a man who can. The best thing a person can say to God is, "Your will be done." And the worst thing God can say to a person is, "No, your will be done."
    Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
    Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    Jeremiah 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
    Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
    Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
    Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  11. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    No stone left unturned,
    No pit left unlit,
    No sin etched too deep,
    No sinner too far gone.

    No serpent too wise
    No goat left untamed
    No desert too arid
    No eternal blame.

    And so on and so forth, praise the Lord!
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Nature of Love

    In the way of laying a foundation for understanding the relationship between God’s gift and His grace, I think we have to consider the relationship between those attributes of God that are particularly highlighted in scripture. It could be said that all the characteristics that are properly ascribed to the Divine Nature find their center in the truth that God is love, so that when God is described also, for instance, as light, spirit and consuming fire, such descriptions essentially explain the meaning and nature of divine love.

    That God is light, speaks to us of the fact that it is the nature of love to enlighten, to GIVE understanding.

    God’s love is self-revelatory. It shines out of its essence and needs nothing outside of itself to make itself known. That God is spirit confronts us with the truth, that in spite of the propensity of divine love to subject itself to all that is adversarial to its existence, love is still, underneath all that hostility, universally and constitutionally pervasive. It is the spirit that constitutes all being, all existence. It’s what “makes the world go around,” from within, and is what gives all things their cohesiveness.

    That God is a consuming fire encourages us to trust that the inner love-spirit essence of all things, from the inside out, will cleanse itself from all that seeks to defile it. The divine nature of love can be afflicted by such defilement but it can never in its essence be defiled. On this foundation rests our salvation.

    So it is with the gift of God, and the graciousness of God. As it is true that when we speak of God as spirit, light, and consuming fire, we are essentially explaining the nature of love — those other attributes do not stand alongside love, they explain love as they are the unfolding of love’s nature, so when we speak of the grace of God, we are, really redundantly, explaining the nature of His gift; that it is, in fact, free. We are emphasizing the obvious, that God’s gift cannot be earned. It is, as all gifts should be, freely given. It is what it is — His gift. The grace of God is, to my understanding, simply God’s givingness.

    God’s gift and God’s grace do not stand alongside one another. As Jesus said of His relationship with the Father, “I and the Father are One,” so also, God’s gift (Christ) and His grace (His givingness) are one. He is graciously giving. He gifts us out from His nature of givingness. Finally understood, God only has one gift for mankind, and that is the gift of His Son.

    In Him are all the riches of the glory of God’s grace. We need to see the obvious, that Paul’s expression, “the glory of His grace” simply means, His grace’s glory. God is gloriously gracious, and we see grace’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ. In Him we see summed up the givingness of God, and NO decision on the part of man can frustrate the givingness of God. He WILL give Himself, in His Son, to all creation until all creation is full of His glory, so that all creation will come to realize its true inner constitution. This is the essence of the Kingdom of God. -John Gavazzoni-

    The Everlasting Gospel

    George Klein-Nicolai: The Everlasting Gospel (1705) | Mercy Upon All
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    A. E. Saxby

    God in Creation, Redemption, Judgment and Consummation, by A. E. Saxby

    Mercy & Judgment -Canon F.W Farrar-

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/mercyandjudgment/mercy_and_judgment_ch1.html

    https://tentmaker.org/books/mercyandjudgment/mercy_and_judgment_ch2.html

    What our Father, the Beginning & Ending cherishes I shall. He is the God of restoration, His beloved Son has a middle Name (Isous).

    God IS Saviour! He is not a potential Saviour, He IS Saviour!

    He is Saviour of all mankind (the radical pas)

    AND

    He is the Saviour of the especially/ malista.

    AND

    "It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    “Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will…”

    Chance = sunkuria =

    A meeting together by a coincidence of [His] circumstances.

    A concurrence of events rather than chance.

    Please note

    There is zero chance involved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  15. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  16. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    To add to what you brought up. I don't mind admitting, I fail to see the logic in UR. I wish UR was Biblical, yet how can it be?

    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    Is the restitution of all things before the time of the great white throne judgment? Or is it after the time of the great white throne judgement?

    If the restitution of all things include Universal Reconciliation, and that the restitution of all things precede the time of the great white throne judgment, why are many then being cast into the lake of fire after the restitution of all things?



    If the restitution of all things include Universal Reconciliation, and that the restitution of all things follow after the time of the great white throne judgment, how do these cast into the lake of fire get released from the lake of fire in order to be included in the restitution of all things after the great white throne judgment?
     
  17. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear David: If you are looking for logic in the Restitution of the all you will continue to fail to see.

    “Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will…”

    Chance = sunkuria =

    A meeting together by a coincidence of [His] circumstances.

    A concurrence of events rather than chance.

    Note the Source, the timing, the scope, the mystery.
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Acts 3:21

    "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (KJV)

    "Who is to be kept in heaven till the time when all things are put right, of which God has given word by the mouth of his holy prophets, who have been from the earliest times."
    (BBE)

    "Whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from long ago."(Common)

    "Whom heaven indeed must receive till the times of the restoring of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets since time began." (Darby)

    "Heaven must receive him until the time of universal restoration that God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets." (ISV)

    Whom, indeed, heaven must retain till the time of the accomplishment of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets, from the beginning of time.
    (LO)

    "Whom the heavens must receive until the time of restoration of all things. "God spoke of this ages ago, through the mouth of his holy prophets." (Montgomery)

    "Whom the heavens must retain, until the completion of the times of those things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets of old." (Murdock)

    "Unto whom, indeed, heaven must needs give welcome, until the times of the due establishment of all things, of which God hath spoken through the mouth of his holy age-past prophets." (Rotherham)

    "Whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets." (WEB)

    "Heaven must receive Him until those times of which God has spoken from the earliest ages through the lips of His holy Prophets--the times of the reconstitution of all things."
    (Weymouth)

    "Whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, of which God spake through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age." (YLT)

    "...of universal restoration" TCNT

    "....of the great Restoration" (James Moffatt)

    "....for the universal reformation..." (Goodspeed)

    "....when all things are put right" (BAS)

    "...when all is restored anew." Monsig. Ronald Knox

    "...until the whole world is re-created" Rieu

    "...until the final recovery of all things from sin." Kenneth Taylor


    “Now it’s time to change your ways! Turn to face God so he can wipe away your sins, pour out showers of blessing to refresh you, and send you the Messiah he prepared for you, namely, Jesus. For the time being he must remain out of sight in heaven until everything is restored to order again just the way God, through the preaching of his holy prophets of old, said it would be. -MSG-

    What does restitution mean?

    Restitution= Apokatastsis


    Apokatastsis=

    Restoration of a true theocracy.

    Of the perfect state before the fall.

    Apokatastsis Rooted In Apokathistemi

    Apokathistemi=

    To restore to its former state.

    To be in its former state.

    Apokathistemi Rooted In Apo

    Apo=

    Of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed.

    Of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
    of origin of a cause.

    Apokathistemi Rooted In Kathistemi

    Kathistemi=

    To set/ place/ put.

    To set one over a thing (in charge of it)

    To appoint one to administer an office.

    To set down as/ constitute/ to declare/ show to be.

    To constitute/ to render/ make/ cause to be.

    To conduct or bring to a certain place.

    To show or exhibit one's self/ come forward as.

    Apokathistemi Rooted In Histemi

    Histemi=

    To cause or make to stand/ to place/ put/ set.

    To make firm, fix establish.

    To stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety.

    To uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything
    to set or place in a balance.

    Continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or prepared.

    To be of a steadfast mind.

    Of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  19. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    What does restore mean?

    Pokathistemi, or the alternative form apokathistano is used to determine a restoration to a former condition of health.

    OR

    As John Mllton said “Paradise regained.”
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dr. E.W. Bullinger, The Companion Bible

    “We have not an impotent Father, or a disappointed Christ, or a defeated Holy Ghost, as is so commonly preached; but an omnipotent Father, an all-victorious Christ, and an almighty Holy Spirit, able to break the hardest heart and subdue the stoutest will.”

    [​IMG]
     
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