The Restitution Of All Things

Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
“The traditional interpretation of an everlasting hell fire for sinners is as wrong and as senseless as believing that a three dollar bill is legal tender. ...
FineLinen said:
“The terms translated ‘forever’ and ‘everlasting’ and ‘never’ are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times.
The human perversions are all of the so-called UR "scholars" who make the above nonsensical claims. You can quote a 100 big names claiming this but that does not make it true. What would be convincing would be some UR "scholar" providing credible, verifiable scholarship for example see the following nine passages where Jesus unequivocally defines "aionios" by the other adjectives He uses with "aionios."
I have been posting this list here for at least `10 years and it has never been addressed and certainly not refuted.
.....[1]
John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
.....[2]John 10:28

(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
.....[3]John 3:15

(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
.....[4]John 3:16

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
.....[5]John 5:24

(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[6]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[7]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.
.....[8]John 6:27

(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
.....[9]John 8:51

(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death."
According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent,
The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.

 
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FineLinen

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“I, for one, freely confess that, without a knowledge of the consummation, when God will reconcile all and become All in all, I could not have confidence in a deity who allowed the world to work itself into such a mess, and who can do little more for most men than to sweep them into destruction, extinction or torment.

But now, how can I distrust God?

Mankind is just where He has brought it. The effect of all the present evil and distress will be salutary. God will get glory out of it, and men will be prepared by it to appreciate the gifts He has in store for them all.”

The corrective effects of kolasis aionios last forever.

“The corrective effects of kolasis aionios last forever. But as a means to an end, it will not last any longer than is necessary to produce the end for which it exists in the first place. When we finally weary of our own selfishness, petty jealousies, and lust for power; when we learn at last, perhaps through bitter experience, that these lead only to ruin and cannot bring enduring happiness, that nothing short of union with God and reconciliation with others will satisfy our own deepest yearnings; when we discover that the Hound of Heaven has finally closed off every alternative to such a union, we shall then, each of us, finally embrace the destiny that is ours.” -Dr. Thomas Talbott-

When we finally weary of our own selfishness, petty jealousies, and lust for power; when we learn at last, perhaps through bitter experience, that these lead only to ruin and cannot bring enduring happiness, that nothing short of union with God and reconciliation with others will satisfy our own deepest yearnings; when we discover that the Hound of Heaven has finally closed off every alternative to such a union, we shall then, each of us, finally embrace the destiny that is ours.” -A.E. Knoch-
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
“The corrective effects of kolasis aionios last forever.
But as a means to an end, it will not last any longer than is necessary to produce the end for which it exists in the first place.
...
This is the Satanic lie which deceives many people.
In addition to Matthew 25:46 "kolasis" occurs one other time in the NT. Let us read it and see if it means correction.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment [κόλασις/kolasis]. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Note, the one who has fear, has torment, kolasis but is NOT corrected is not made perfect.
 
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FineLinen

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The Inescapable Love Of God

Thomas Talbott- The Inescapable Love of God - 2nd Edition

http://www.thomastalbott.com/pdf/chapter3.pdf

http://www.thomastalbott.com/pdf/chapter5.pdf

http://www.thomastalbott.com/pdf/Chapter11.pdf

iu


The life of faith isn't meant for tourists. It's meant for pilgrims. -Eugene H. Peterson-
 
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FineLinen

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At-one-ment

“We are told of a god who created millions of beings whom he intends for endless torments and puts His whole design into execution; and this is called supreme goodness.

In millions of cases this god finds it most for his glory to make his rational, hoping, wanting creatures endlessly miserable.

We are likewise told of a devil who acts for his own gratification, and who delights in making God’s creatures miserable; and this is called badness.

Shall we thus represent our kind and merciful Father from Whom streams of goodness continually flow to His wanting, needing creatures?

No; let every vibration of sense within us acknowledge His bountiful hand which will never close.” -Hosea Ballou

Following Jesus Christ

"To follow Jesus implies that we enter into a way of life that is given character and shape and direction by the one who calls us. To follow Jesus means picking up rhythms and ways of doing things that are often unsaid but always derivative from Jesus, formed by the influence of Jesus. To follow Jesus means that we can't separate what Jesus is saying from what Jesus is doing and the way that he is doing it. To follow Jesus is as much, or maybe even more, about feet as it is about ears and eyes." -Eugene H. Peterson-
 
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“Sinners do not go away into everlasting punishment. They go into eonian correction. Thank God for the Concordant literal translation, which some in their blindness are condemning. When leaders in the church today condemn something I would be the first one to rush out and get it and examine it for myself. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the majority have the truth It has never been that way and it is not now.

The unscriptural tradition assigning a limit beyond which Christ has no power to save the obstinate sinner has spread universally. It is worldwide.

It claims that the will of man can successfully oppose the power and will of God.

“God wills all mankind to be saved” (1Tim.2:4).

Let us follow our Lord in His denunciation of tradition that makes void the word of God. Let us revel in the full extent of Christ’s work and God’s victory for all mankind.” -Charles J. Peart-
 
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FineLinen

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“The great enmity of mankind is but a background to magnify and display the far greater love of our God. Such love is as measureless as it is timeless; a vast portion being yet unrevealed. ‘And having made peace through the blood of Christ’s cross, by Him to reconcile all unto Himself, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.’ This plan of the ages is our Lord’s ultimate purpose according to the declared will of Almighty God. This is the divine destiny of all in His creation. This is love that never fails.” -Ross McKay-

“Most Christian ministers seek only to search out passages of scripture that corroborate the eternal hell school of theology to which they belong; and whatever passages are unfortunately found in conflict are put through the required interpretations and contortions to disqualify for entry. Christian ministers all have posts to fill; they have a job to hold down; wherefore they dare not reach out for truth lest they should see too much and their conscience disturb them and their livelihood be imperilled.” -Mikkel Dahl- (Is hell eternal?)

“The plan of God, or as it literally reads ‘according to the plan of the ages’ (Eph.3:11) will work out as God purposed; It will not fail. God shall be All in all (1Cor.15:28). The saving work of Christ will continue throughout the ages, for Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and for the ages (Heb.13:8). God’s purpose and plan in creation, redemption, and new creation will then be clearly apprehended by all, and His character will be unveiled and vindicated.” -Chas. H. Pridgeon-
 
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Saint Steven

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GRACE > sin
(always greater than)

Romans 5:19-21
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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FineLinen

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GRACE > sin
(always greater than)

Romans 5:19-21
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Dear Saint: This is one glorious Theos equation ! !

However

The side of the Last Adam is much more glorious with those 3 little words "all the more"!

Sin increased>>>grace increased all the more.
 
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The Gospel From Outer Space

“The gospel of love heard from the churches is at bottom a gospel at gunpoint. This gospel claims to speak of a great love, but only one step behind this “love” is an unspoken, or often very vocal great threat – the threat of eternity in “hell” if we refuse this love. What a travesty of love, even human love, not to mention God’s! For one would think that God’s love ought to be at least as great as what human beings are capable of. It is precisely the implied or expressed threat of eternal perdition that compromises the churches’ ‘gospel of love,’ and gives this ‘gospel’ the lie to ordinary people, and is in fact behind by far, most of atheism.

On the other hand, this is not the quality of mercy I see in God. I get the strong feeling of an infinite, unconditional, no-strings-attached love for all people. At the same time this love is all-powerful and sovereign. It is not so flimsy and pitifully weak that it can be finally frustrated or defeated by mere human whim or by meager man’s arrogant illusion called ‘free will.’ ” -Robert Short-

 
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Saint Steven

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,,, a gospel at gunpoint...
God our Father is being replaced with the gangster Godfather.
The gospel becomes, "An offer you can't refuse." (or you're toast)
 
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FineLinen

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Evil From The Lord

“All men will be saved. But God isn’t trying to redeem everyone in this age, only that chosen generation that Paul spoke of.

Believing that the evil in this world has its purpose for good will bring much peace to your heart. And then to realize that God in someway, somehow, will eventually use evil to bring about good for everyone, will further add to your peace. As this revelation of the Prince of Peace is unfolded to your turbulent, battle-weary heart, you will start to more continuously abide in His love.

God not only ‘allows’ evil in this present world, but rather ordains it. No more, and no less evil than God Himself determines, will happen to anyone during any certain day.” -Michael Killian-

The Purpose Of Evil

THE PURPOSE OF EVIL BY: A.P. ADAMS – Kingdom Resources
 
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FineLinen

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"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." -1 Tim. 2:4-

koine thelo=

To will, have in mind, intend.

To be resolved or determined/ to purpose.

To sovereignly determine.

†θέλω thélō, thel’-o; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138; to determine (as an active option from subjective impulse.
 
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Der Alte

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God our Father is being replaced with the gangster Godfather.
The gospel becomes, "An offer you can't refuse." (or you're toast)
No! God has been replaced with a Santa Claus god who forgives everybody no matter what. serial killed Jeffrey Daumer will be right there with Mother Theresa.
Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?
Jesus used the word αἰώνιος/aionios twenty-nine times. He never used "aionios" for anything which can be clearly shown to NOT be eternal. And in nine verses, which I have posted several times, Jesus defined aionios as eternal by pairing or contrasting it with other adjectives.

John 6:58, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 3;36, John 4;14, John 6:27, John 8:51







 
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FineLinen

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Will God's Plan Fail?

“The plan of God, or as it literally reads ‘according to the plan of the ages’ (Eph.3:11) will work out as God purposed.

It will not fail.

God shall be All in all (1Cor.15:28).

The saving work of Christ will continue throughout the ages, for Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and for the ages (Heb.13:8).

God’s purpose and plan in creation, redemption, and new creation will then be clearly apprehended by all, and His character will be unveiled and vindicated.” -Chas. H. Pridgeon-
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Will God's Plan Fail?
“The plan of God, or as it literally reads ‘according to the plan of the ages’ (Eph.3:11) will work out as God purposed.
It will not fail.
God shall be All in all (1Cor.15:28).
The saving work of Christ will continue throughout the ages, for Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and for the ages (Heb.13:8).
God’s purpose and plan in creation, redemption, and new creation will then be clearly apprehended by all, and His character will be unveiled and vindicated.” -Chas. H. Pridgeon
-
Why didn't God's purpose and plan work out in Jeremiah 13?
Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.

…..This passage very much speaks to God’s purpose and plan and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His plan was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

 
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The Gospel From Outer Space

“The gospel of love heard from the churches is at bottom a gospel at gunpoint. This gospel claims to speak of a great love, but only one step behind this “love” is an unspoken, or often very vocal great threat – the threat of eternity in “hell” if we refuse this love. What a travesty of love, even human love, not to mention God’s! For one would think that God’s love ought to be at least as great as what human beings are capable of. It is precisely the implied or expressed threat of eternal perdition that compromises the churches’ ‘gospel of love,’ and gives this ‘gospel’ the lie to ordinary people, and is in fact behind by far, most of atheism.

On the other hand, this is not the quality of mercy I see in God. I get the strong feeling of an infinite, unconditional, no-strings-attached love for all people. At the same time this love is all-powerful and sovereign. It is not so flimsy and pitifully weak that it can be finally frustrated or defeated by mere human whim or by meager man’s arrogant illusion called ‘free will.’ ” -Robert Short-



The God-as-Judge viewpoint does not present a biblical picture of what divine justice is about at all, but is a legalistic perspective that comes from human culture.

Biblically, to “bring justice” does not mean to bring punishment, but to bring healing and reconciliation.

Justice means to make things right.

Throughout the Prophets justice is associated with caring for others, as something that is not in conflict with mercy, but rather an expression of it. Divine justice is God’s saving action at work for all that are oppressed, as the following verses demonstrate:

Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow (Isaiah 1:17). Note what happens when one does right by seeking justice. The oppressed are encouraged and the helpless are helped.

This is what the LORD says:

"`Administer justice every morning; rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed
(Jeremiah 21:12). Justice is done when the oppressed is rescued.

This is what the LORD Almighty says: `Administer true justice: show mercy and compassion to one another (Zechariah 7:9). How does one administer true justice? By showing mercy and compassion to everybody involved.

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice (Isaiah 30:18).

What is the reason our Lord wants to be gracious to us? Because He is just.

If we want to understand the concept of justice as the writers of the Old Testament did, then we must see it as a “setting things right again.” There is no conflict between God’s justice and His mercy. They both flow from His love…-Steve McVey-
 
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Are we paying attention?

The issue is not what is written in some verse, but what is consistent with the "mind of Christ" taken as a coherent whole.

Everything must be in complete agreement, no contradictions or inconsistencies with the Holy Spirit of agape love, mercy, kindness, compassion, long suffering, etc.

We must make every effort to reconcile the inconsistencies and contradictions we accept as being from God & develop a coherent understanding of the "mind of Christ."

Do you accept all the words "written in ink" without thought or reasoning. Such blind acceptance is not studying to show yourself approved. It's just rote acceptance of primitive thinking.

God speaks in the red letters, the black letters & the white spaces between the lines.
 
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This is me about 1 yr. old.
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FineLinen said:
Are we paying attention?
The issue is not what is written in some verse, but what is consistent with the "mind of Christ" taken as a coherent whole.
Everything must be in complete agreement, no contradictions or inconsistencies with the Holy Spirit of agape love, mercy, kindness, compassion, long suffering, etc.
We must make every effort to reconcile the inconsistencies and contradictions we accept as being from God & develop a coherent understanding of the "mind of Christ."
Do you accept all the words "written in ink" without thought or reasoning. Such blind acceptance is not studying to show yourself approved. It's just rote acceptance of primitive thinking.
God speaks in the red letters, the black letters & the white spaces between the lines.
Throughout history there have been people who deceive the unwary with these arguments. e.g. LDS, JW, UPCI, OP, INC, WWCG etc. all making the same claims that they alone have the truth. UR is no different.
 
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