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Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

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  1. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Christian Universalism Articles
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    http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/articles2.html

    Salvation - by Rev. S. Crane

    Salvation is not getting into a good place, but into a good state. It is not being where you cannot sin, but it is being so you will not sin. Lock a man up in jail and he cannot steal, for there is nothing there to steal. He is where he cannot sin the sin of stealing. God does not propose to save us from sin by locking us up in heaven.

    Make a man thoroughly honest and he will not steal, no matter how much there may be to steal. He is saved from the disposition to steal. Salvation, therefore, is such a state of moral perfection as delivers us from all wish or desire to sin. God proposes to save us by so educating our minds and hearts that we will not choose to sin. To the degree, therefore, that we obtain this moral education we are saved, and we are saved to no greater degree. No matter where we are, in this world or some other, we are saved only so far as we are able to reject the wrong and choose the right. It is of vast importance, therefore, that we seek this moral education now; that we seek salvation from sin now. The more of this salvation we get now the better -- the better for us here and hereafter. Seek salvation -- seek moral education, therefore, now, for in it is the promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.

    You must be saved. God wills to save you. Why do you not obey his will and seek salvation now? Sometime you must believe in and confess Christ. Why do you not believe in and confess him now? Sometime you must repent of your sins. Why do you not repent of your sins now? Sometime you must learn the truth of God. Why do you not learn that truth now? Sometime you must obey God's truth. Why do you not try to obey that truth now? Sometime you must experience the purifying and saving influence of Divine grace. Why do you not try to experience that influence now? Can you tell?
     
  2. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    A new day breaks across this globe of ours. The great Day of the Lord is drawing near.

    Dear friends: what a shock it is to awaken to the fact one has much to learn! F.L. thought he grasped the essence of our God (the fabric of His Being). I missed one of the Scriptures that declare "God is".

    Until this morning, the essence of our God was>>>

    LOVE>>>FIRE>>>SPIRIT>>>LIGHT>>>SAVIOUR

    What has dopey F.L. missed?

    "He IS [the] propitiation for our sins>>>
    AND not for our sins ONLY>>>
    But for the sins of the whole world."

    The essence of our God=

    LOVE/FIRE/SPIRIT/LIGHT/SAVIOUR/PROPITIATION


    https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-john/2-2-compare.html
     
  3. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 
     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear he-man: that my friend is a wonderful fact!

    You must, however, attempt to consider the whole council of God. Do you know the whole groaning creation shall be delivered from the bondage of sin & despair?
     
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Julian continues to struggle with the problem of evil—and again affirms God’s creative power to mend all that is broken.

    And yet as I looked at all these things, I was troubled and sad. In my mind I said to our Protector, as respectfully as I could, "Ah, good Protector! How can all be well, when our separation from you has damaged Creation so terribly?" I was hoping Christ would explain all this to me more openly and clearly, so that my sense of worry and sorrow would be eased.

    Our Protector answered patiently, with an expression of love on His face, showing me that Adam's separation from God was the worst harm that ever came to the world and ever will, till the end of time. This is the insight the Holy Church knows and teaches throughout the Earth.

    However, Christ taught me to focus instead on the bright and splendid fulfillment of all life -- for this mending of what was broken is more pleasing to God and of infinitely more worth than Adam's sin was harmful.

    Our Protector wants us to pay attention to this thought: "If I have made well this most basic damage to reality, this separation that is the worst that has ever befallen Creation, then you can rest assured I will also be able to make well all other things."

    --Julian of Norwich

    Endorsed by Pope Benedict XVI in 2010, Pope Francis in 2016, Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 313.

    The Message= Romans chapter 5=

    5 1-2 By entering through faith into what God has always wanted to do for us—set us right with him, make us fit for him—we have it all together with God because of our Master Jesus. And that’s not all: We throw open our doors to God and discover at the same moment that he has already thrown open his door to us. We find ourselves standing where we always hoped we might stand—out in the wide open spaces of God’s grace and glory, standing tall and shouting our praise.

    3-5 There’s more to come: We continue to shout our praise even when we’re hemmed in with troubles, because we know how troubles can develop passionate patience in us, and how that patience in turn forges the tempered steel of virtue, keeping us alert for whatever God will do next. In alert expectancy such as this, we’re never left feeling shortchanged. Quite the contrary—we can’t round up enough containers to hold everything God generously pours into our lives through the Holy Spirit!

    6-8 Christ arrives right on time to make this happen. He didn’t, and doesn’t, wait for us to get ready. He presented himself for this sacrificial death when we were far too weak and rebellious to do anything to get ourselves ready. And even if we hadn’t been so weak, we wouldn’t have known what to do anyway. We can understand someone dying for a person worth dying for, and we can understand how someone good and noble could inspire us to selfless sacrifice. But God put his love on the line for us by offering his Son in sacrificial death while we were of no use whatever to him.

    9-11 Now that we are set right with God by means of this sacrificial death, the consummate blood sacrifice, there is no longer a question of being at odds with God in any way. If, when we were at our worst, we were put on friendly terms with God by the sacrificial death of his Son, now that we’re at our best, just think of how our lives will expand and deepen by means of his resurrection life! Now that we have actually received this amazing friendship with God, we are no longer content to simply say it in plodding prose. We sing and shout our praises to God through Jesus, the Messiah!


    12-14 You know the story of how Adam landed us in the dilemma we’re in—first sin, then death, and no one exempt from either sin or death. That sin disturbed relations with God in everything and everyone, but the extent of the disturbance was not clear until God spelled it out in detail to Moses. So death, this huge abyss separating us from God, dominated the landscape from Adam to Moses. Even those who didn’t sin precisely as Adam did by disobeying a specific command of God still had to experience this termination of life, this separation from God. But Adam, who got us into this, also points ahead to the One who will get us out of it.

    15-17 Yet the rescuing gift is not exactly parallel to the death-dealing sin. If one man’s sin put crowds of people at the dead-end abyss of separation from God, just think what God’s gift poured through one man, Jesus Christ, will do! There’s no comparison between that death-dealing sin and this generous, life-giving gift. The verdict on that one sin was the death sentence; the verdict on the many sins that followed was this wonderful life sentence. If death got the upper hand through one man’s wrongdoing, can you imagine the breathtaking recovery life makes, sovereign life, in those who grasp with both hands this wildly extravagant life-gift, this grand setting-everything-right, that the one man Jesus Christ provides?

    18-19 Here it is in a nutshell: Just as one person did it wrong and got us in all this trouble with sin and death, another person did it right and got us out of it. But more than just getting us out of trouble, he got us into life! One man said no to God and put many people in the wrong; one man said yes to God and put many in the right.

    20-21 All that passing laws against sin did was produce more lawbreakers. But sin didn’t, and doesn’t, have a chance in competition with the aggressive forgiveness we call grace. When it’s sin versus grace, grace wins hands down. All sin can do is threaten us with death, and that’s the end of it. Grace, because God is putting everything together again through the Messiah, invites us into life—a life that goes on and on and on, world without end.

    The Message (MSG)

    Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  9. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    [QUOTE="FineLinen, post: 73177229, member: 6357 [/QUOTE] Job 27:19  The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not. 

    Job 27:22  For God shall cast upon him, and not spare: he would fain flee out of his hand.
     
  10. Tayla

    Tayla Well-Known Member Supporter

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  11. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Jesus316: It is no secret Augustine did not grasp the Restitution of the all spoken from the earliest ages by/through the prophets of the Most High God. Do you?

    http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/articles2.html
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Romans Chapter 5=

    This doesn't mean, of course, that we have only a hope of future joys - we can be full of joy here and now even in our trials and troubles. Taken in the right spirit these very things will give us patient endurance; this in turn will develop a mature character, and a character of this sort produces a steady hope, a hope that will never disappoint us. Already we have some experience of the love of God flooding through our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us.

    And we can see that it was while we were powerless to help ourselves that Christ died for sinful men. In human experience it is a rare thing for one man to give his life for another, even if the latter be a good man, though there have been a few who have had the courage to do it. Yet the proof of God's amazing love is this: that it was while we were sinners that Christ died for us.

    Moreover, if he did that for us while we were sinners, now that we are men justified by the shedding of his blood, what reason have we to fear the wrath of God? If, while we were his enemies, Christ reconciled us to God by dying for us, surely now that we are reconciled we may be perfectly certain of our salvation through his living in us. Nor, I am sure, is this a matter of bare salvation - we may hold our heads high in the light of God's love because of the reconciliation which Christ has made.

    This, then, is what happened. Sin made its entry into the world through one man, and through sin, death. The entail of sin and death passed on to the whole human race, and no one could break it for no one was himself free from sin.

    Sin, you see, was in the world long before the Law, though I suppose, technically speaking, it was not "sin" where there was no law to define it. Nevertheless death, the complement of sin, held sway over mankind from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sin was quite unlike Adam's. Adam, the first man, corresponds in some degree to the man who has to come.

    But the gift of God through Christ is a very different matter from the "account rendered" through the sin of Adam. For while as a result of one man's sin death by natural consequence became the common lot of men, it was by the generosity of God, the free giving of the grace of one man Jesus Christ, that the love of God overflowed for the benefit of all men.

    Nor is the effect of God's gift the same as the effect of that one man's sin. For in the one case one man's sin brought its inevitable judgment, and the result was condemnation. But, in the other, countless men's sins are met with the free gift of grace, and the result is justification before God.

    For if one man's offence meant that men should be slaves to death all their lives, it is a far greater thing that through another man, Jesus Christ, men by their acceptance of his more than sufficient grace and righteousness, should live all their lives like kings!

    We see, then, that as one act of sin exposed the whole race of men to God's judgment and condemnation, so one act of perfect righteousness presents all men freely acquitted in the sight of God. One man's disobedience placed all men under the threat of condemnation, but one man's obedience has the power to present all men righteous before God.

    Now we find that the Law keeps slipping into the picture to point the vast extent of sin. Yet, though sin is shown to be wide and deep, thank God his grace is wider and deeper still! The whole outlook changes - sin used to be the master of men and in the end handed them over to death: now grace is the ruling factor, with righteousness as its purpose and its end the bringing of men to the eternal life of God through Jesus Christ our Lord. -The Message-
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  13. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Augustine also believed babies go to hell.
     
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Clement: Mankind is a broken messed up bunch of stupids in dire need of Jesus Christ interfering into their wee lives.

    Let's consider fishing

    The Master of Reconciliation gathered individuals whose profession was fishing. They depended on it for a living. A day came when the Man from the Glory called from the shore to them in a boat.

    The catch=zero.

    And what does this "Man" tell professional fisherman? You are fishing on the wrong side of the boat!

    Do you know what else the Master, Jesus Christ does, beside teaching professional fisherman what side of the boat to fish on?

    He is the atoning sacrifice for the whole mass of broken, lost sinners.

    He not only is the atoning sacrifice for the mass. His salvation reaches to the last, extreme farthest end, or the utmost end as the Saviour of all. He is the Christ of eschatos!

    From Him, through Him, for Him
     
  15. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    "'P.S. I cannot take "The Message" seriously."

    Dear friend: I know of no versions for the concept of purgatory. I do know, however, that nothing of the Awesome One is limited in any dimension! He wills all mankind to be saved, and His will prevails. He declares through the Apostle, every knee shall bow & every tongue confess IN the Name of all names, Jesus Christ, "You are Lord"! That is a glorious fact. In union with this fact, is every dimension of heaven and earth & the underworld shall do so. EVERY!

    If you so desire to not take the "message" seriously, go for it! Nothing St. Paul declares under the anointing of the Holy Ghost should be taken seriously, just set it aside into the realm of conjecture. The prophets of the Most High, likewise. Their declarations of a brand new day= wishful thinking. Set it all aside and refuse to take it seriously! I want to be the first to wish you good luck!

     
  16. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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  17. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

    John 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 

    John 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    "I agree with the whole canon as I see it written in my bible"

    For your convenience the text of what we will begin to consider ("in your bible"). You will note "begin">>>

    Romans Chapter 5 the KJV=

    "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

    4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

    5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

    17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

    King James Version (KJV)(Public Domain)



    The Questions=

    1. What was our condition when Christ died for us?

    2. When did God commend His love to us?

    3. We were reconciled to Him as enemies: does the reconciliation stop there?

    4. How many have sinned?

    5. How did sin enter the world? Was it by one man?

    6. How many are dead as a result?

    7. To how many does the grace of God abound?

    8. The offence of the one led to condemnation to how many?

    9. How many does the free gift of righteousness affect?

    10. How many "were made" sinners?

    11. How many are "made righteous"?

    12. How much is "all the more"?

    13. Does grace abound over sin? How much?

    14. What prevails? Sin or grace?
     
  19. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Do you believe John? John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
    John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

    Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Continued from post # 1438

    Friends: F.L has been engaged on another thread with a fundagelical who also is a KJV ONLY believer. Of course, his favorite & only translation worth the time= you guessed it!

    The 14 questions based only on the KJV record have been presented. To date he has responded to 3 of the 14. The responses=

    His answers=

    Test question #11=

    The KJV answer=

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Fundy's answer=

    "I will answer question eleven. The amount that are made righteous is as many as that receive his sacrifice and believe on him. We are also told that not all men will receive that sacrifice in faith and belief. These are termed "wicked" and we are told they shall be destroyed body and soul in hell."

    Fundys Test results= ZERO


    Question #7=

    7. To how many does the grace of God abound?

    The KJV answer =

    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    Fundy's answer=

    "I will answer question seven. The grace of God abounds to as many will receive his sacrifice and believe on him. We are already told what the end result is of man that will not believe on him, and told that this is our default condition."

    Answer= incorrect!

    Fundys Test results= ZERO (0)

    Questions answered= 11

    Questions asked= 14

    Answers incorrect= 3
     
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